about AST rework

I understood that this AST rework was intended to reduce the overall difficulty, so that it could be enjoyed by a wide variety of users. Including casual players and higher level players.
But when I looked at the rework, it's quite confusing and I'm not sure about its true intension is.

Fundamentally, this rework changed nothing about game-playing experience and its difficulty, which makes me disappointed.

In EW, AST have to draw card, see what card it is, if it is not needed, change, and finally target the other player and play card.
I have noticed that novice ast players usually have trouble with targeting the other player and deciding and playing correct card. In my opinion these are not necessary for novice ast players. They can just give card to any dps member and at least it will give 3% buff.

However, in DT, this doesn't changed in fact got harder.
Now draw always gives same cards and if they want to give it other player, they have to target correct player then press correct play button, but as many players know, making and using macros are not really good for AST playing experience.
Also, in EW, we just needed to see the edge color of the card to decide who the correct target player is, but in DT, we now have to memorize or read the effect of each heal/mit card and play properly in order to get value out of playing cards compare to “if unsure play it and get at least 3% buff”

It just make ast more difficult, and less attractive for new users. When in EW it’s “check color of card” vs DT’s “memorize all 6 cards” obviously latter is much more difficult to play.
No matter how pretty the skill effects are, and how many mit skills there are, who would say I'll try AST? When level of difficulty has not changed.
At least, if heal and mit cards were AoE without requiring targeting, just like lady of crowns would effectively solve the difficulty issue that novice AST users may experience.

Even if problems I mentioned above are fixed, there are still many problems with current AST rework.
For example with Astrodyne being removed, MP AST generates became so small, after few minutes into fight AST will run out of MP to use Fall Malefic.
And damage gap between WHM’s Glare and malefic stays same, and I'm not sure if Oracle, 5s increase in Divination and buffed Lords of Crown is enough to cover up damage gap between WHM and AST when we have also lost couple DPS cards to play compare to EW.
Lastly, If I use Macrocosmos on single target, it is a dps loss because of Fall Malefic got a trait upgrade when Macrocosmos did not.
With all this It's really confusing and I can't understand intention of rework.

I loved EW AST, and even if it released as is like now, I know, I'll keep play AST... But as one of the AST-loving player, I was hoping this rework would make other people to enjoy the ast. Please, consider some of this I said about AST rework and make it better so that many people can enjoy it.

Each set of cards has it's own play button, so there'll just be one "DPS card" button. And you pick which card it is with the draw buttons, which draw gives what cards is probably the only thing you'll have to remember. And the other cards seem like they're all just "plop this on the tank if you want".

The level of difficulty has absolutely changed with AST. Even when you didn't specifically go down the route of optimisation, at a base level you still had 4 offensive cards to dish out every 2 minutes, a redraw mechanic if you didn't get what you want, and also far more buttons to actually press and manage with Lord/Lady - especially when the 60s cooldown wasn't visible if you were sitting on a Lady. Astrodyne was an extra button you had to use to not overcap with your card usage too.

That's just the base level. Optimization would include moving 3 cards to your burst window and using Lightspeed to double weave between GCD's to get everything out - 3 cards, 2 Lords (if lucky), Astrodyne (x2 sometimes), divination, earthly star 10s+, etc.

You were punished with losing DPS if you didn't use your cards. Overwriting and not using your heal/mit cards does not punish you. The lack of RNG or a seal system makes every card scripted and fixed. Beyond the initial small learning curve of ''X draw = melee, Y draw = ranged'' you will not think about the cards anymore than giving it to the same person, over and over.

All of AST's healing will stay the same, so in terms of that, it will still be harder than WHM - but the card system alone being gutted has stripped a lot, if not, the majority of its difficulty. But I'd still rather play WHM with a better job mechanic.

So yeah, AST has definitely been made easier, it's why I've seen some casuals think the rework is phenomenal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SeoSha

It just make ast more difficult, and less attractive for new users. When in EW it’s “check color of card” vs DT’s “memorize all 6 cards” obviously latter is much more difficult to play.

---

This is the reason so many people avoid AST. I can not count how many times a new player tried playing AST to only say "I can't remember all the cards it's too confusing" and then go back to playing White Mage.
The idea of having 6 cards is always going to be overwhelming to new players and with the rework having 3 different play buttons I'm surprised that CBU3 didn't make it so as they leveled from lvl 30 to lvl 50 they slowly unlocked a new play button (essentially getting 2 new cards) every 10 levels or so for new players to slowly learn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zrei

This is the reason so many people avoid AST. I can not count how many times a new player tried playing AST to only say "I can't remember all the cards it's too confusing" and then go back to playing White Mage.
The idea of having 6 cards is always going to be overwhelming to new players and with the rework having 3 different play buttons I'm surprised that CBU3 didn't make it so as they leveled from lvl 30 to lvl 50 they slowly unlocked a new play button (essentially getting 2 new cards) every 10 levels or so for new players to slowly learn.

---

and that's how it should be. They wanted something simple, they can play WHM, a job was made to be simple and relaxing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KanataNanaya

and that's how it should be. They wanted something simple, they can play WHM, a job was made to be simple and relaxing.

---

Exactly! Not every job should be the same difficulty. I always love that AST rewarded me for putting in more effort than something like WHM.
I get the feeling that these types of changes to AST are not geared towards AST players though...

I've never felt like the reward for playing a harder job should be more damage anyways. When that happens you just get people crying and demanding that the job be made easier so they can get 'optimal damage' too without the effort. Instead, my reward for playing a harder job should be having fun :P

But now honestly I can't say theres any 'hard' jobs left. No change I've seen from any job in the media tour has made me think a job was made more interesting to play. It's just EW design with stuff either stripped away, or functionally identical. Most classes don't get a single new button, even more possible failstates removed... All in the name of what? Fight design suddenly being harder enough to warrant this? Unlikely. I don't expect to have to think during the first tier and ulti any more than I didn't have to in the last 3 years of endwalker. Dawntrail feels stale to me as a whole before it's even launching. I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt just one more time but... I expect nothing.

You need to get rid of the idea that Macros aren't good for the AST playing experience. They're fantastic. I use mouseover macros with play constantly and they're exceptional. Even if a card goes out slightly late from time to time, if that makes up for cards going out late all the time because you can't swap targets really quickly, it's a dramatic improvement. It's objectively better for YOU. There are objectively more points of failure in swapping targets 6 times in 10 seconds than using a <mo> macro.

"Macros are bad for AST" is something made up by people who fail to recognize that they can make an IMMENSE difference for people who otherwise wouldn't be comfortable with the job. Get it out of your system, and don't feel bad about using a macro. I use <mo> macros and have a card go out late maybe once every 5-6 pulls of a boss. Compared to getting tripped up way more with changing targets constantly on current AST.

I'm actually quite pleasantly surprised by the changes. Having played AST in HW (which you had to memorise every card and it's effect, plus deal with the RNG draw, and also switch between Pure and Shield healer styles) and seeing the simplification that happened to it afterwards I as worried it would be simplified even further.

Personally I like AST having some more difficulty to it, it makes it a more engaging class (IMO) - granted the RNG is gone, which I found both fun and frustrating in equal measures (especially when you keep drawing melee dps cards and your party consists of all ranged dps, or vice versa) but I can see me sticking with it come Dawntrail (I was originally thinking of switching when they originally announced a rework).

(That said, I still prefer the overall job designs pre-SB and really hoping SE look to go back to that style come 8.0)

Also yeah, have to agree that Macro'ing the card play using mouseover is an extremely useful option and highly recommend (especially if you have an MMO mouse).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zaytex

snip.

---

I disagree with you, OP, and all the reasons in Zaytex’s quote are the reason.

I would further add, and at some point there will be data to either support me or refute me, that a plurality, if not a majority, of people who are currently talking about moving over to AST in DT are saying so because they perceive the job as being easier now, not harder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KanataNanaya

and that's how it should be. They wanted something simple, they can play WHM, a job was made to be simple and relaxing.

---

The problem is that SE (and some players, it seems) firmly believe in "participation rates", i.e. you aren't allowed to have your niches, it needs to be homogenized to hell until the number of players between any two job is as close to 1:1 as possible.

So, even if you prefer mint over vanilla and are sitting there enjoying your ice cream bothering no one, screw you. They aren't going to ask you and other mint ice cream enjoyers how the flavor could be improved, they are going to ask vanilla enjoyers what it would take for them to try mint more often. So they dilute the mint, and it doesn't work, because they inevitably switch back to straight vanilla, because duh, they prefer vanilla. So you just have shit mint.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

The problem is that SE (and some players, it seems) firmly believe in "participation rates", i.e. you aren't allowed to have your niches, it needs to be homogenized to hell until the number of players between any two job is as close to 1:1 as possible.

So, even if you prefer mint over vanilla and are sitting there enjoying your ice cream bothering no one, screw you. They aren't going to ask you and other mint ice cream enjoyers how the flavor could be improved, they are going to ask vanilla enjoyers what it would take for them to try mint more often. So they dilute the mint, and it doesn't work, because they inevitably switch back to straight vanilla, because duh, they prefer vanilla. So you just have shit mint.

---

And eventually, you end up with the flavour that offends no-one, and pleases no-one: just plain ice. Frozen water.

The issue is that why is it wrong they prefer white mage? If it's too confusing they have something else to play. It makes no sense they do this to healers. Heck they do this to all the jobs look at black mage. Look at samurai. Look at how directionals have been gutted. shb ew and now this dw has gutted and simplified jobs to the point why even have so many? give us one tank one mellee one range one magic dps one healer. Heck with warrior you dont even need a healer. oh well.

I didn't see this specifically covered in the media tour videos, but Lightspeed is no longer required for the burst windows, right? It would be great if at least it would really become a movement tool and combat rez speed up.

I just hope that the release build will have some way to regain our mana, because without Astrodyne and loosing some card draw mana overall we are again in a huge mana deficit.