[Dawntrail Benchmark V.1.1 - Feedback] Male Miqo'te Mouth

I enjoy the new benchmark, overall I think the changes are very strong. However, this benchmark comes with new unexpected changes that people don't find satisfactory in

That for me is the new changes made to male Miqo'te mouths, notably the corners of their lips.

This is face 4, but I believe many others have also expressed this change exists for other face plates.

1A) Idle, front view
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...36fd22cb6c8e3&

1B) Idle, 3/4 view
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...44305401fa5d5&

The corners of the mouth now have an upward turns, this makes the character seems like they're smiling/smirking, as opposed to their neutral expression before. This wasn't a thing back in v.1.0 benchmark.

This might stem from the sculpt (and resulting shadow cast), rather than lighting. And it's rather hard to argue that this change is minor, since from afar you can tell there's a stark difference in how a character looks and feels

2) Under same lighting condition
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...a9465128d1976&

Additionally, the depth of the corners/upward turns plays poorly into more serious or negative expressions. The readability is confusing, and the emotion far weaker than current game's mouth sculpt

3A) Expression test - angry voice line
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...3e896e10f5bf7&

3B) Expression test - disapproving voice line
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...4f2ff0865e1ed&

Closing thoughts:

This change drastically alters the personally of the character, and I don't believe I'm the only one finds this upsetting.

Since this change is across all mouth options, I don't have a mean to tweak and tinker for an alternate route - which is discouraging for people who wants their character to look a bit more stern and serious.

The sculpt would be a good toggle-able addition to existing mouth options for Miqo'te, as many also have the opposite experience and finding the new change exciting, more befitting for their cheery characters. However it shouldn't be standard across the board.

the disapproving expression in particular just looks vaguely bemused because of the upturned lip corners lmao. a change like this that drastically alters a character's base expression, let alone their other emotes, should really be toggleable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by purincchi

the disapproving expression in particular just looks vaguely bemused because of the upturned lip corners lmao. a change like this that drastically alters a character's base expression, let alone their other emotes, should really be toggleable.

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I worry for future cutscenes because of this :( the emotions feel indistinct and hard to read, it's easy to misinterpret them

I agree with pretty much everything you've listed out here.

The mouth is definitely the worst change for face 4 male miqo'te. The lips are very obviously reworked, particularly the upper lip and lip corners as you've mentioned.

Personality of individual characters aside, I think it defeats the purpose of having a "straight face" emote if the default/"straight" face has curved lip corners that make them perpetually smiling.
And I like having my characters smile, I make my male miqo'te smile all the time and he is a cheery guy! But it shouldn't be forced onto him by default.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...550&height=303

Also, the eyes for lighter eye colours STILL look very "dead/soulless".
There's still far too much shading on the upper half of the eye, and the new catchlights are hardly visible unless you zoom in and angle your camera up.
The exceptions are eye types #4 & #6 where the catchlights are more visible (I use #3).
The shading also obscures the cat-eye pupil/slit, which is something I consider quite fundamental to the character identity of my miqo'te, or any other Seeker miqo'te for that matter.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...eb4fc17b92760&
(Left: CURRENT / Right: BENCHMARK 1.1) Eye type #3 comparison

Even beyond that, the eye shapes have changed for the worse too.
The current eyes look more angular and have more character to them, but it seems like the benchmark eyes have all been smoothed over a bit too much, which really removes the charm of the original look.

The graphics quality and lighting have improved a lot, no doubt.
But no amount of lighting fixes can help a fundamentally different face sculpt/feature.

I'm hoping the devs do hear out the feedback and concerns to make changes even after this 1.1 update, but it's looking bleak since Dawntrail is only a couple weeks away.
I'm trying to remain optimistic but I don't know if I can fully enjoy Dawntrail, or continue to enjoy any aspect of FFXIV post-7.0, if these drastic changes are permanent going forward.
So much of my enjoyment of the game comes from my characters, so it's been really upsetting to see this happen.

Came to the forums to say this! It's rather upsetting.
Also agree on the eyes - it's a lot different from before, and for the worse.

Happy to see more people take note of how dull the new Sunseeker miqo eyes look. Felt like the outcry for moon miqos' fangs buried any other criticism when the first benchmark dropped. I think the very distinct brighter cat eye look for Sunseekers is equally as important since it is their distinctive racial trait.
As for the lips , the addition of dimples on so many of the mouth models has been a tragedy. :(

The dullness in the eyes extends to the pupils, as well - in the new benchmark it looks like he's got a film over his eyes, making him look blind. The pupil has gotten so light that in some scenes it completely blends in with his light gray eye

Comparison of 1.0 benchmark versus 1.1 benchmark
https://imgur.com/a/RPjoz8w

The loss of pupil visibility from 1.0 to 1.1
https://imgur.com/a/1OXEvVQ

I'm really shaken by how different he looks from 1.0 to 1.1, he looks like a different person, and newly blind

I noticed when I played around with the eyes that 4 and 6 look so much better than the others (I naturally use 4) because they aren’t lidded enough to miss the reflected light so the eyes look way more natural

Can’t fix the weird smile though
https://i.postimg.cc/YC5yjPsV/image.png
https://i.postimg.cc/B6TvRRrG/image.png

For reference

Now that I've had some time to check in with my other characters in benchmark (Veena, Midlander Hyur, Hrothgard) - the eye change is most prominent in Miqo'te, Sunseekers especially, and definitely for the worse... With new benchmark, other races retained their very bright saturation to their eyes like current game, even with the overcasting shadow it didn't obscure much of their irises :(
Sunseekers slit eyes just feel like a normal rounded pupils from afar, it's really taking away their distinguishing trait.

I really hope the devs make changes to this, I wouldn't even mind if it's in a hotfix patch after release when they give out update waves (as much as that would take away my enjoyment on release), I just hope it's not a permanent graphic choice.

I posted this to another thread, but I highly recommend you check out the main JP forum thread for the benchmark feedback:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...AD%B0%E8%AB%96

There's a lot of content in there but I've found a few posts that address similar issues to those shared here:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6471489
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6472597
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6472289

I'd recommend you repost there too, even if it's just the images with translated text.

I think the devs are more likely to comb through that thread so anything to raise awareness for the face 4 issues helps!

I also posted In the JP megathread with translated text for this

I have no idea if my text makes any sense but it’s about all I can do because I can’t read Japanese