Male Miqo'te Face 4 changes (Benchmark feedback)

male miqo'te face 4 got drastically changed. so much that it changes the expression of the character, something fantasia can't repair.

https://i.imgur.com/AvMESRi.png



changes:

• mouth looks like it's smiling, less serious and more cat-shaped in the benchmark

• eyes look more slim with the heavy shadow, less lively and more tired

• eyebrow shape changed to be slightly wavy, being less expressive and more thin than before (thick eyebrows are turned on for this character)

• eyelid form has changed and is more round now (which further changes the expression)

• shadows under the eyebrows got lighten up, making the character look less serious and more calm

comparison: (left shows benchmark, right endwalker version)

https://i.imgur.com/stoHB4S.png
comparison shows the visible eyeshadow changes that also change the appearance of the eye-form itself

https://i.imgur.com/W5cHjAi.png
further comparison shows the changes of the eyelid and changed expression

https://i.imgur.com/691gYm9.png
the sketch shows the eyebrow flow that has changed

this post shows the detailed difference between the current mouth shape and the one of the benchmark:
https://x.com/banana_qote/status/1797585680333467721



the biggest issue i have are the smiling mouth and the dead eyes since they are the reason the character's vibe has completely changed

You're totally right, I have the same issues with the updated graphics tbh. I just saw your tweet on twitter haha :'DD!

Here's my old:
https://i.imgur.com/8EquLqi.png
And new:
https://i.imgur.com/7RwYOFg.png

I really loved this face but now it looks so cunty... :/

thank you for sharing your comparison! really shows so much how the changes affect our characters vibes ;o;

https://i.gyazo.com/32108fba11027fb8...b5838845de.png
https://i.gyazo.com/020de5b2adb6c252...8d94b076cf.png

the upturned lips on all mouth options really does change the overall neutral expression for face 4's...of course i think we all appreciate the devs hardwork, but i hope they take a look at this issue in particular and maybe consider altering it. i wouldn't mind changing to a different mouth option if i didn't want the slight smile, but every option does have it.

https://imgur.com/a/ekKCpUS he looks completely different

https://i.imgur.com/hWgnKcC.png

Yeah, I am not the biggest fan of the change in the mouth shape.
I also think as a suncat, the slit pupils feel a bit undefined.

https://i.postimg.cc/YC5yjPsV/image.png
https://i.postimg.cc/B6TvRRrG/image.png

Adding my voice to this, he went from serious and stoic to dopey

I posted this to a different thread that goes into depth on the lip issue, but I'll repost here as well.
(Other thread: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-Miqo-te-Mouth)

The mouth is definitely the worst change for face 4 male miqo'te. The lips are very obviously reworked, particularly the upper lip and lip corners as you've mentioned.

Personality of individual characters aside, I think it defeats the purpose of having a "straight face" emote if the default/"straight" face has curved lip corners that make them perpetually smiling.
And I like having my characters smile, I make my male miqo'te smile all the time and he is a cheery guy! But it shouldn't be forced onto him by default.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...550&height=303

Also, the eyes for lighter eye colours STILL look very "dead/soulless".
There's still far too much shading on the upper half of the eye, and the new catchlights are hardly visible unless you zoom in and angle your camera up.
The exceptions are eye types #4 & #6 where the catchlights are more visible (I use #3).
The shading also obscures the cat-eye pupil/slit, which is something I consider quite fundamental to the character identity of my miqo'te, or any other Seeker miqo'te for that matter.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...eb4fc17b92760&
(Left: CURRENT / Right: BENCHMARK 1.1) Eye type #3 comparison

Even beyond that, the eye shapes have changed for the worse too.
The current eyes look more angular and have more character to them, but it seems like the benchmark eyes have all been smoothed over a bit too much, which really removes the charm of the original look.

The graphics quality and lighting have improved a lot, no doubt.
But no amount of lighting fixes can help a fundamentally different face sculpt/feature.

I'm hoping the devs do hear out the feedback and concerns to make changes even after this 1.1 update, but it's looking bleak since Dawntrail is only a couple weeks away.
I'm trying to remain optimistic but I don't know if I can fully enjoy Dawntrail, or continue to enjoy any aspect of FFXIV post-7.0, if these drastic changes are permanent going forward.
So much of my enjoyment of the game comes from my characters, so it's been really upsetting to see this happen.

Same problem here :( The overall vibe of the character has significantly changed with this benchmark in a way it hadn't with the first one. The Face 4 mouth is the most egregious issue, but I believe there were other changes to the face shape and eyes that lend to a very different feeling overall.

Current/First Benchmark/Second Benchmark
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...24c1866f6fc33&

I feel the same way. I love the design of my main, a grumpy serious cat, but with this update, I don't recognize him anymore. The lips aren't the same, way too shaped, smiling and he looks sleepy. I wouldn't mind if these shapes were available to the players who like this kind of design as options (because letting players have choices is always good) but I would really like to keep the current design we have :(

https://estenn.net/images/depannage/...chmarkFF14.png

I hate it too. Anyone know if the Japanese forums have a thread about it? I really hope SE sees the feedback on this one. I actually didn't have any issues with the first benchmark but was excited to see the tweaks. I didn't expect them to be making such drastic changes to our characters this close to release. They talked so much at the first fanfest about how they knew people were attached to their characters and didn't want to make changes that were too extreme - this seems pretty extreme!! He had a sweet, gentle air about him before, now he looks like a jerk. :( Why wouldn't they just add new face options if they want to do this?

Yeah, I didn't want to post again after last bench due to how the people who were happy behaved toward the people who weren't (when YoshiP specifically has asked for feedback and has stated the goal is to maintain the vibe of a character!) but this is egregious, because maintaining a grumpy look would require switching to a different face or possibly race.

The resting scowl is why I use this face...I even have black eyeshadow to make it look worse and now he's smiling :(

https://i.imgur.com/ZtPCRwV.png

Throwing in my two cents as well.

I can deeply appreciate the hard work the devs put into everything. My character does look gorgeous! He's just has a very different vibe and personality than the one I spent the last 10 years with. I'm hoping there might still be time to adjust things.

For me, the biggest thing I would love for the permanent smile/smirk to be more neutral and serious like it was before. The permanent smile when my I've spent a decade seeing my character a bit "grumpier" and more serious is a pretty jarring.

https://i.imgur.com/Ab8ZLZe.png
https://i.imgur.com/M1rp5VK.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YatoGato

Anyone know if the Japanese forums have a thread about it?

---

As far as I can tell, most of the JP feedback is concentrated in this main thread:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...AD%B0%E8%AB%96

There is A LOT in there, but I did find at least one EN player post about the face 4 miqo'te issues that resonate with many of us here:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6471489

I'd encourage you all to repost your concerns over there too, even if it's just images with some translated text.

Anything to get the word out on JP forums helps! I intend to repost there sometime soon as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YatoGato

I hate it too. Anyone know if the Japanese forums have a thread about it? I really hope SE sees the feedback on this one. I actually didn't have any issues with the first benchmark but was excited to see the tweaks. I didn't expect them to be making such drastic changes to our characters this close to release. They talked so much at the first fanfest about how they knew people were attached to their characters and didn't want to make changes that were too extreme - this seems pretty extreme!! He had a sweet, gentle air about him before, now he looks like a jerk. :( Why wouldn't they just add new face options if they want to do this?

---

That's my exact feeling, too! I had small nitpicks with the first benchmark but was fine with it on the whole, and I was excited for the second only for the changes to be extreme. None of the different lighting options or the benchmark cutscene itself give any indication that he won't look like this in-game, and for major changes like this to come out of nowhere so close to release is pretty disappointing. The overall feeling of my character has completely changed, and even people I've shown who aren't familiar with FFXIV have been able to notice.

I've never made a forum post nor did i feel like I needed to until i loaded my face 4 miqo boy into the benchmark! You have all stated it much better, but I will go ahead and say my piece. My character is very serious and his lore is dark and sad; he rarely ever smiles. To see a perpetual smirk put on his face kind of hurts me to look at! Maybe I'm too attached to my character but it just isn't who he is at all. I feel like his overall face and demeanor has been changed. I hope SE can give this change some more thought
current:
https://lds-img.finalfantasyxiv.com/...aaa2ca72be.jpg

first benchmark
https://lds-img.finalfantasyxiv.com/...9d07ca19cb.jpg

updated benchmark
https://lds-img.finalfantasyxiv.com/...8ec0d9bff7.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CyanOnigiri

As far as I can tell, most of the JP feedback is concentrated in this main thread:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...AD%B0%E8%AB%96

There is A LOT in there, but I did find at least one EN player post about the face 4 miqo'te issues that resonate with many of us here:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6471489

I'd encourage you all to repost your concerns over there too, even if it's just images with some translated text.

Anything to get the word out on JP forums helps! I intend to repost there sometime soon as well.

---

I also encourage people to post on the JP megathread

I put a post through Google translate that said what my problem is and an apology for not being able to speak Japanese and attached the before and after of my character and the post is getting upvotes (which is their way of denoting agreement with a comment) so it seems like they don’t mind broken google translate English as long as you aren’t rude

I hate it too, I immediately looked at my character in the benchmark and went, this is not me. I don't really self identify with my character, like I'm not self inserting, but despite changing a few times, it only ever lasted a week, I always went back to my cat boy for 10 years. Yoshi P said that they didn't want you to look at it and not recognize your character but that is what has happened.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CyanOnigiri

There is A LOT in there, but I did find at least one EN player post about the face 4 miqo'te issues that resonate with many of us here:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6471489

---

Hello, that's me! I too any very upset by the changes made to face 4 male miqos. Allow me to very briefly summarize what I wrote in the JP post.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...87c89976f5269&

1+4: Eyebrows
The eyebrows have been thinned, making them lose their roundness and making them very sharp and angular. This gives the impression that the character is constantly smirking. I had this issue when making my character back in 2019; this option was the softest eyebrow I could get and now even this one was made extra sharp.
2. Mouth
The shape of the mouth has changed. I can see where they were going with the more cat-like mouth, and while I don't hate my character smiling, it doesn't suit every character, and many have lost the seriousness that was the original appeal. Plus, with some jaw options, they look like they're sucking on a lemon.
3. Eye Color
The vividness of the eye color is reduced, as others have pointed out, making the eyes lose that cat-like shine. This can be mitigated somewhat by knocking the color down one shade lighter.
5. Overall Expression
Again, the changes above combine to give an overall different vibe, and the default face is no longer a neutral expression, but rather more like emote: smirk or emote: simper. It's rather sultry and sexy, which is not at all the vibe I want for my character. The droopiness of the eyelids contributes a lot to this issue.

For me, I found some settings I could tweak to make it a little more like the original character. But no amount of changes would fix the droopiness of the eye (indeed, setting 3, the one I use, is the only setting with cat-like eyes that point upward, so I can't change that), nor make the eyebrows any rounder or softer the way they used to be (the eyebrow toggle in facial features makes it even worse, somehow) or the mouth having a constant smile (which again, isn't so much a problem for me personally by itself but combined with the other issues makes it a problem).

All this said, I encourage everyone to use google translate to post on that JP forum thread. My concerns gained way more traction in JP than in EN forums, even when I posted my issues about the 1.0 benchmark. I don't know how much difference it'll make this late in the game, but I'm holding out hope that the devs see it and listen.

There are still some differences that I'm not satisfied with yet. Here are the comparisons with the current in-game character design and Benchmark 1.1.

Eyes: The benchmark eyes have a more frosted glass-like, and the current patch has a more beautiful glow within the iris at night. Benchmark 1.1 eyelids give a more droopy look up close.

Lips: There's a catlike upward curl on the lips. I'm realizing I like my character looking dead on the inside more lol! who agrees?

Face in general: Is it the lighting? The benchmark face 1 and neck look fuller as well, less of a baby face and more manly. It's preferences, but not accurate to current creation. I'm seeing that folks have conflicts with benchmark making their character look more twinky, and I'm trying to retain my baby face and less manly lol.

Background: Also, the blue night sky might not be as realistic but it's more beautiful.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...941bfefc06633&https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...0b58578515ea7&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...6904486cab8c5&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...43f212c939096&

https://i.ibb.co/48CWDqf/light-reflection2.png

Hello! I appreciate the devs hard work to fix a lot of characters nearing the release of endwalker, however I too have to echo what others experience in this thread.

• eyes 3 (in face 4) doesn't reflect light as well as the current game, instead it seems like its progressively getting worse the further we go with the benchmark. I could only see the light in his eyes if i tilt him slightly from the bottom view, because the soft reflection is hidden by the model's dark / heavy eyelashes
  
  While it might be an unfair comparison, I attached how lively other sunseeker miqo'tes look like and my wol just looks more expressionless / emotionless than usual (but he's... smiling??? now? why??? X'D)
  
• my second complaint is with the lips. It seems like a few others enjoys the change but when i built my wol in the character creation, this shape is not what i intended. therefore I question the decision of making a drastic change for a shape that is already fine to begin with.
  I couldn't imagine playing msq and seeing him smiling under serious circumstances!

sorry if this makes no much sense as english isn't my first language!
idk if the devs will take a look at the threads and still making adjustments but I certainly hope they will, I want all of us to enjoy dawntrail to its fullest!

i tried Benchmark update today and thought well create your miqoten Moonkeeper with Face 4 again. unfortunately i realised that the eyes and lips look completely different... than the previous benchmark, where is my grumpy miqote ? i can understand your work and appreciate it very much i hope a solution will be found and a possibility to get my grumpy cat back. and yes i really had to write something about this topic, i hope something will happen in the next 14 days. :(

https://i.imgur.com/qyVsgto.png
https://i.imgur.com/AwMvR2U.png

:(

The changes completely ruin the energy and mood I had going for my character. Please revert them. He no longer has the identity he did originally. The new changes all have a sort of smiling, smug look. Where's the grump?!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CyanOnigiri

As far as I can tell, most of the JP feedback is concentrated in this main thread:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...AD%B0%E8%AB%96

There is A LOT in there, but I did find at least one EN player post about the face 4 miqo'te issues that resonate with many of us here:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6471489

I'd encourage you all to repost your concerns over there too, even if it's just images with some translated text.

Anything to get the word out on JP forums helps! I intend to repost there sometime soon as well.

---

thank you so incredibly much for this advice!

i read through all the comments here and appreciate a lot the shared concerns and references! i shared my thoughts in the japanese server now too and am glad to see other people have similar thoughts! it's encouraging!

I'm in the same boat as you brothers, I left the benchmark with a big disappointment losing my neutral and stoic Miqo'te face. So much I'll probably switch to face 1 if nothing is changed by launch day. Ironically, face 1 looks now the more stoic face for Miqo'te, despite looking fairly young

Im still so so sad xD. I hope they change it a bit or make the character graphic changes optional o|-<
Because daaaaamn the more i look at it the more it is a completely different face for some of us with the face 4 option. Face 4 was always so serious and cool looking.. and now its so much more feminin with constant bedroom eyes and a smirk..

I just tried the benchmark and I must say that the difference was so noticeable, I really do hope they fix this or at least alter it in a way that doesn't look so... Cheeky? I loved the serious tone of face 4, but now it just looks like some evil twin, or when possessed...
https://i.imgur.com/OI1HYMT.gif

Bump. Over half a year later and we're still stuck with the post-lobotomy smile.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lucatracy

Bump. Over half a year later and we're still stuck with the post-lobotomy smile.

---

Probably still the only person that cares about this, but here's to hoping (yet again) this one of the adjustments being made this patch.