The Housing System In The Eyes Of A Newer Player

I'm sure its been said before but its mind breaking to me that this lotto system is better that what was.

Cause I'm gonna have to start week three and it already feels like I'm making job applications.

Iv heard stories of how bad it was but is there no real way to make it any better than what it is now???

If i need to put a proper Question in this post, My question is what would you do to change the housing system if you could remake it however you wanted?

I would implement instanced housing for personal houses. If I could redo everything, I'd have never put personal housing in the wards at all. If I were working with what's already in, I'd put instanced housing in addition to the wards, so you could either have a ward house or an instanced house. Instanced houses would have the benefit of not being lost when you can't log in for more than 45 days, and you could also upgrade them up to large size with gil.

If I were going to make minor changes to avoid development costs, I'd put an entrance to workshops outside of housing (maybe at the grand company, maybe at Cid's workshop in Mor Dhona) and allow FCs to unlock them without needing a house. This would at least free up a tiny bit of space in the wards, hopefully. Then I'd work on apartments, making them upgradable to medium and large interiors, and if possible, add a balcony where a small garden plot could be placed.

It stems from the fact that there are wards where you can have next door neighbors and visit their houses. If it were instanced like other MMORPGs, you wouldn't be able to see someone next door.

These wards are actually separate area server programs. So if they add new wards, they have to manually set this up and set aside the appropriate resources for them to run constantly.

Now, there is actually instanced housing. You can buy a room in a private or FC residence. Or you can buy an apartment. There are caps on this, but they are very high and it's instanced.

The drawback of rooms and apartments is that the rooms are small. I think they are considering about possibly making these bigger, but I don't know if it'll end up happening or not.

I think that bigger room options for residence and apartments, more wards and trying to share wards across worlds would be things I would think of. Or move them over to a cloud server which are better designed for scaling resources (they use physical machine racks btw not cloud services).

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Originally Posted by ToxieDrop

its mind breaking to me that this lotto system is better that what was.

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Imagine sitting at your computer/console for 12 hours straight (or longer if the system feels like it) doing nothing more than spamming a placard among 50 other people that want that same plot.

Wanna watch a show in the mean time or listen to a podcast? What if someone beats you to the click while you were pausing or changing the episode? Are you gonna risk it? Need to get food? Are you gonna risk going to the bathroom now? You wanna sleep? Someone else is gonna snatch your chance at the house, and don't forget you've already invested 8 hours into clicking. You're not gonna quit now, are you?

Then you lose anyway cause a bot was clicking 5 times faster than you ever could. Better go find a new plot to do it all over again.

Just the fact that you can do literally ANYTHING ELSE with your time while the lotto is running makes the new system better. They're both coin tosses, but only the old system literally chained you to your PC/Console while you were tossing that coin for 12 hours straight. So... don't get me wrong: The lotto system is far from being a solution to the housing problem, but placard spamming was way WAY worse.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

It stems from the fact that there are wards where you can have next door neighbors and visit their houses. If it were instanced like other MMORPGs, you wouldn't be able to see someone next door.

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Good. Get those ugly Paissa Carbuncle Candy houses out of my sight.

Would demolish my house immediately if instanced housing was added, and it should be added.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Imagine sitting at your computer/console for 12 hours straight (or longer if the system feels like it) doing nothing more than spamming a placard among 50 other people that want that same plot.
Wanna watch a show in the mean time or listen to a podcast? What if someone beats you to the click while you were pausing or changing the episode? Are you gonna risk it? Are you gonna risk going to the bathroom now? You wanna sleep? Someone else is gonna snatch your chance at the house, and don't forget you've already invested 8 hours into clicking. You're not gonna quit now, are you?

Then you lose anyway cause a bot was clicking 5 times faster than you ever could. Better go find a new plot to do it all over again.

Just the fact that you can do literally ANYTHING ELSE with your time while the lotto is running makes the new system better. They're both coin tosses, but only the old system literally chained you to your PC/Console while you were tossing that coin for 12 hours straight. So... don't get me wrong: The lotto system is far from being a solution to the housing problem, but placard spamming was way WAY worse.

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Is TRUE! Vivian speaks truth. Lotto WAY betters than old system. Lotto is only solution for distribution of house, howevers. True solution requires ramping ups house supply....a LOT.

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Originally Posted by Eraden

True solution requires ramping ups house supply....a LOT.

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https://64.media.tumblr.com/757a2903...ypxlo1_500.gif

We need like... three times the amount of wards we currently have, maybe some with a few more Medium/Mansions.

The only real way to make it better than it is, is to significantly up the amount of wards available, or to reworking housing outright.

Under the initial system you were pretty lucky to ever see a house as most were done through transactions, e.g., buying and selling plot locations -- FCs can still do this, under strict circumstances, but personal plot owners cannot do it.

Then we had the "Let's give a random cooldown on when a house can be purchased from when it was relinquished or demolished. You could be sitting at a placard for 10 minutes, you could be there for several hours, and people absolutely would for houses.

Now we have lottery system which ultimately puts it to complete random chance for personal plot ownership. Same with FCs, but you can increase these odds by having several members bid on the same plot. IMO, this is probably the most balanced system we have, granted, the only thing I would alter is to do it on Free-Company chance e.g., only 1 member from a free company can bid on a given plot.

Housing has always very much been an imperfect system, due to a combination of factors. Some on the devs, and some on player valuation.

They should just double the number of wards, that would be enough for every current bidder who doesn't yet own a house. Most bids on larges and mediums are from people who already have a house.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

https://64.media.tumblr.com/757a2903...ypxlo1_500.gif

We need like... three times the amount of wards we currently have, maybe some with a few more Medium/Mansions.

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Nah, this is only an “issue” on the most congested of servers, in which case. Welcome to MMOs, this is what you get for picking a congested server. There’s always some form of limited resources in MMOs. There’s no shared gathering node spawns, instead it’s housing. On nearly any server there’s plenty of available plots, whether it’s players or FC only.

But people want the “perfect house”. The perfect size, the perfect district, the perfect plot location. People used to complain about any housing being an issue, now the goalposts are moving that they can’t own a large.

Also funny that people always complain about this issue at the end and beginning of expansions but never the middle when people unsub and forget about their house and housing plots pop up like popcorn.

Too many people want a large/medium only.
At least it seems that way on Chaos/Light DC, the nearby small plots that I live near haven't been bought for well over a year now, however I am in the goblet and from what I hear it's the least desired place to have a house for some.

The lotto system isn't 'better' than how it was in the past, but it's more healthy for how players can approach it and not risk their health and comfort for some pixels.
I say this as someone who did spend hours and hours without rest interacting with placards.

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Originally Posted by Ryaze

Nah, this is only an “issue” on the most congested of servers, in which case. Welcome to MMOs, this is what you get for picking a congested server. There’s always some form of limited resources in MMOs. There’s no shared gathering node spawns, instead it’s housing. On nearly any server there’s plenty of available plots, whether it’s players or FC only.

But people want the “perfect house”. The perfect size, the perfect district, the perfect plot location. People used to complain about any housing being an issue, now the goalposts are moving that they can’t own a large.

Also funny that people always complain about this issue at the end and beginning of expansions but never the middle when people unsub and forget about their house and housing plots pop up like popcorn.

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https://cdn.betterttv.net/emote/5aca...5481ad/1x.webp

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

It stems from the fact that there are wards where you can have next door neighbors and visit their houses. If it were instanced like other MMORPGs, you wouldn't be able to see someone next door.

These wards are actually separate area server programs. So if they add new wards, they have to manually set this up and set aside the appropriate resources for them to run constantly.

Now, there is actually instanced housing. You can buy a room in a private or FC residence. Or you can buy an apartment. There are caps on this, but they are very high and it's instanced.

The drawback of rooms and apartments is that the rooms are small. I think they are considering about possibly making these bigger, but I don't know if it'll end up happening or not.

I think that bigger room options for residence and apartments, more wards and trying to share wards across worlds would be things I would think of. Or move them over to a cloud server which are better designed for scaling resources (they use physical machine racks btw not cloud services).

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Instanced housing doesn't necessarily have to mean solo-instances only. In Wildstar, your default housing was a solo-instance situation, but they also had the option to create a community island that you and 4 other friends shared together. Each player still got their own personal (huge) design space, but it was all in a single-instance.

And of course friends could still visit. Or you could go exploring random houses/islands like you can in XIV.

I can't speak for others, but I would much rather have a shared instance with my friends vs. the mostly dead neighborhoods that we have now.

I know you didn't say this, but instanced housing doesn't have to be a basic square room. It can be soooo much more, and far superior (imo).

At the core, the issue is very simple: you've got a resource that is limited in supply and high in demand, such that for every 1000-ish people that want it, only 1 person gets it. It doesn't matter what that resource is; it could be Beanie Babies or Theatre Tickets or houses in an MMO. The question is simple: what is the best way to distribute these limited resources?

First, we have to decide what we mean by "best". Personally, I think we should strive for a system that is fair and compassionate.

And with that in mind, I think a lottery is probably the best that can be done given the current circumstances. You apply to the lottery, then you move on with your life; that's compassionate (you'll see why later). You'll probably lose the lottery, but you have the same chance as everyone else, so it's fair.

It used to be worse. It used to be first-come, first-serve. So people who wanted a house would literally sit clicking for hours upon hours, sometimes days, just to hopefully be the first person to get the house. And this was a huge problem, because it clearly incentivized players to waste their time, sacrifice their health, and burn out. This alone was more than enough reason to change it.

But beyond that, it was a much less fair system, because some people have more free time that they can spend on clicking without stopping, while others have much less or can't do it at all. A trust fund kid without any responsibilities can click all day without a care, but someone who works for a living has much less bandwidth to do that. And that means that people with less real-world responsibility are statistically more likely to get a house, which skews the odds in favor of a certain demographic of players at the detriment of other demographics of players.

Hopefully that demonstrates how much better the current system is. By not adding additional pain to the process and fairly distributing resources, it's a system that's as good as it gets.

The only way to genuinely make things work any better isn't to change the system of distribution, but rather to change the supply and/or demand. Because at the end of the day, not getting what you want and knowing you're unlikely to get what you want will always suck.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

In Wildstar, your default housing was a solo-instance situation, but they also had the option to create a community island that you and 4 other friends shared together.

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Hmm an instanced island is a good idea. It's unfortunate that SE couldn't do, well, exactly that with Island Sanctuary, and couldn't even get a personal house in it or at least a longer afk timer on it and an aetheryte to it that would create the instance upon teleport like when you click the NPC.

The lottery system is definitely better than the old one, as that was basically whoever got logged in and past the queues first got the house whenever new ones were added.

But I think the best way to do it would be to go back to the original system and just add in automatically new wards as housing slots fill up, rather than making them artificially limited.

Letting people own multiple houses was a huge mistake considering they didn't have enough houses for everyone to begin with.

Restrict houses to 1 per character and 1 per FC, people who already have multiple houses have to choose which house to keep and the others get refunded and furniture gets put into storage. Only FC leaders can post a bid for their FC house so that they can't game the system by just having more people bidding for it.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Hmm an instanced island is a good idea. It's unfortunate that SE couldn't do, well, exactly that with Island Sanctuary, and couldn't even get a personal house in it or at least a longer afk timer on it and an aetheryte to it that would create the instance upon teleport like when you click the NPC.

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Yeahhh. I was cautiously optimistic that IS could have been made into something to bridge the gap, but alas, it is what it is. X;

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

It used to be worse. It used to be first-come, first-serve. So people who wanted a house would literally sit clicking for hours upon hours, sometimes days, just to hopefully be the first person to get the house. And this was a huge problem, because it clearly incentivized players to waste their time, sacrifice their health, and burn out. This alone was more than enough reason to change it.

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Sliiight correction. Originally it was 100% first come, first serve. You could buy a house as soon as you walked up to it if it was available. This obviously led to a lot of house flipping for crazy prices. Flipping does still happen, but it's FC only now and takes some extra steps/time.

Then they changed it and added a hidden timer to newly vacated properties. This would essentially block people from being able to purchase the home until the random timer expired. IIRC, this could be anywhere from 30 minutes up to 15+ hours. This is when you'd see huge groups of people just camped out at placards, mindlessly clicking for hours. Also saw the rise of placard botting using auto-clickers.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Under the initial system you were pretty lucky to ever see a house as most were done through transactions, e.g., buying and selling plot locations -- FCs can still do this, under strict circumstances, but personal plot owners cannot do it.

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There was house trading between players but it was not necessary to do that in order to get a house. I was able to buy more than one house from the placard when the first-come-first-serve housing system was in place. Whenever a housing patch added more wards, all I had to do was login as soon as the servers opened, wait in the login queue, use the aetheryte to pick an empty ward and run around it to pick a plot.

Back when we couldn't relocate, I manually demolished my first house and did the same thing again to get another house. Even later after the placard timer was added, one could buy a house without a timer in a newly added ward where plots had no previous owners.

I don't think logging in on patch day was a terribly demanding requirement to get a house but people wanted total randomness so here we are.

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Originally Posted by avaule

The ward housing system is holding them back in so many ways. There are so many cool places throughout the game and its expansions where they could add some really creative instanced housing. Personally, I'd love my own sky pirate base in the Sea of Clouds like the one from the HW alliance raid quests or my own wing of the Il Mheg castle so I can spend more time near my most wonderful branch. Heck, if they wanted to charge for it, I'd rather spend $2 a month extra for that than for a retainer any day.

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I think that's a really cool idea, though I wouldn't want to pay extra for it

i would limit large houses to free companies (at least 10 members) only.
cant speak for every server but at least in EU there seem to be always small houses available.

and i would remove the demolish timer. instead i would make the players pay rent to be even more of a gilsink. it would be payable several months early for players to be able to take breaks from the game in between.

The system now is fine, at least it is RNG and not bots owning all the houses.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Imagine sitting at your computer/console for 12 hours straight (or longer if the system feels like it) doing nothing more than spamming a placard among 50 other people that want that same plot.

Wanna watch a show in the mean time or listen to a podcast? What if someone beats you to the click while you were pausing or changing the episode? Are you gonna risk it? Need to get food? Are you gonna risk going to the bathroom now? You wanna sleep? Someone else is gonna snatch your chance at the house, and don't forget you've already invested 8 hours into clicking. You're not gonna quit now, are you?

Then you lose anyway cause a bot was clicking 5 times faster than you ever could. Better go find a new plot to do it all over again.

Just the fact that you can do literally ANYTHING ELSE with your time while the lotto is running makes the new system better. They're both coin tosses, but only the old system literally chained you to your PC/Console while you were tossing that coin for 12 hours straight. So... don't get me wrong: The lotto system is far from being a solution to the housing problem, but placard spamming was way WAY worse.

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All this and a high chance of not even being beaten by a botter, but by someone or more likely an FC relocating even before the timer was up. A lot of the time when you're the only person there cause it's 3am and everyone else but fisher mains are asleep. Could the current system be better? Yes. But there is no way we should go back to how it was. This coming from someone who did get a house via the old system.

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Originally Posted by Brynne

I would implement instanced housing for personal houses. If I could redo everything, I'd have never put personal housing in the wards at all. If I were working with what's already in, I'd put instanced housing in addition to the wards, so you could either have a ward house or an instanced house. Instanced houses would have the benefit of not being lost when you can't log in for more than 45 days, and you could also upgrade them up to large size with gil.

If I were going to make minor changes to avoid development costs, I'd put an entrance to workshops outside of housing (maybe at the grand company, maybe at Cid's workshop in Mor Dhona) and allow FCs to unlock them without needing a house. This would at least free up a tiny bit of space in the wards, hopefully. Then I'd work on apartments, making them upgradable to medium and large interiors, and if possible, add a balcony where a small garden plot could be placed.

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They actually want to be able to increase the size of the apartments. Maybe that'll happen after they finalize the ability to hide (remove) the pillars inside houses. I have firmly believed that they need to allow people to be able to cross breed plants inside their apartments. And to somehow allow for alts to share a house. Do those two things and let FCs without a house some way to access the workshop and a lot of woe should go away.

I honestly think they'd find it a lot easier making rewards for content if housing was more available in the game.

I love trophy items from hard content and wish I had a better places to display them than my house that no one can ever see because its on a different data center than the one everyone plays on.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Imagine sitting at your computer/console for 12 hours straight (or longer if the system feels like it) doing nothing more than spamming a placard among 50 other people that want that same plot.

Wanna watch a show in the mean time or listen to a podcast? What if someone beats you to the click while you were pausing or changing the episode? Are you gonna risk it? Need to get food? Are you gonna risk going to the bathroom now? You wanna sleep? Someone else is gonna snatch your chance at the house, and don't forget you've already invested 8 hours into clicking. You're not gonna quit now, are you?

Then you lose anyway cause a bot was clicking 5 times faster than you ever could. Better go find a new plot to do it all over again.

Just the fact that you can do literally ANYTHING ELSE with your time while the lotto is running makes the new system better. They're both coin tosses, but only the old system literally chained you to your PC/Console while you were tossing that coin for 12 hours straight. So... don't get me wrong: The lotto system is far from being a solution to the housing problem, but placard spamming was way WAY worse.

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Remember people saying "it rewards persistence and filters out people that don't really want a house!"

https://media.tenor.com/13uWWxHDr-8A...-remembers.gif

Oh! And during the days of placard camping, existing homeowners could relocate their house whenever they wanted. They could skip the lockout timer entirely. That had to feel reaaaal nice camping a house for hours only to have someone come dump their existing house on the lot. :X

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Remember people saying "it rewards persistence and filters out people that don't really want a house!"

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https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads...cal-crying.gif

The lotto system is "better" but it's solved a symptom, not the actual problem.

The actual problem is the shortage of houses due to them being a limited supply. No one would've been camping placards if everyone could get a house to begin with.

Now you can roll on a plot once a week with like 30-100+ other people and lose, I guess. Your chances of getting a house in the current system are still incredibly small.

Make every housing feature available for apartments. problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Yuella

Make every housing feature available for apartments. problem solved.

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When people keep subs going solely to keep their house? good luck giving apartments similar functionality, the HOA would riot.

There are multiple things that if fixed/added, they would directly lower SE's profits. This is one of them, so I don't have high hopes.

- better instanced housing (people stop subbing for house)
- bettering inventory, adding separate ones for baits/mats, glam collection (people stop paying for retainers)
- faster msq quests or story skip for alt chars (they lose one of top selling items in the shop)

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Originally Posted by Dhalya

There are multiple things that if fixed/added, they would directly lower SE's profits.

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Some other things that lower SE's profits:

• Making it extremely difficult to buy the game, easy to get it for the wrong platform etc.
• Making it so if you use visa debit or moved country, you can no longer play and won't be playing in Dawntrail...
• Constantly saying that taking a break to play other games is ok and encouraged.
• Not having lots of FOMO content that prevents you missing any time or you fall too far behind to possibly catch up.
• Not being free-to-play.
• Not being pay to win or selling everything obtainable in the game on the mog station.
• Not making it into a mobile MMORPG.

Because this game really isn't about making the most money possible for them, otherwise they'd obviously be looking at all these points. Making just a good game is more their interest. They have other departments that have been doing the above points instead (not that they've been any good at it).

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Imagine sitting at your computer/console for 12 hours straight (or longer if the system feels like it) doing nothing more than spamming a placard among 50 other people that want that same plot.

Wanna watch a show in the mean time or listen to a podcast? What if someone beats you to the click while you were pausing or changing the episode? Are you gonna risk it? Need to get food? Are you gonna risk going to the bathroom now? You wanna sleep? Someone else is gonna snatch your chance at the house, and don't forget you've already invested 8 hours into clicking. You're not gonna quit now, are you?

Then you lose anyway cause a bot was clicking 5 times faster than you ever could. Better go find a new plot to do it all over again.

Just the fact that you can do literally ANYTHING ELSE with your time while the lotto is running makes the new system better. They're both coin tosses, but only the old system literally chained you to your PC/Console while you were tossing that coin for 12 hours straight. So... don't get me wrong: The lotto system is far from being a solution to the housing problem, but placard spamming was way WAY worse.

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But the underlying problem is a finite amount of housing for players, and the mechanisms to distribute are only different levels of pain. The solution is much more housing, until you don't need painful systems to distribute.

Interestingly, this is exactly what happens in cities with insufficient housing supplies and rent control. In some countries you queue up when you turn 18 and then wait many years.

SE could make so much Money, by selling House Designs in the Item Shop, for Private Instanced Housing. Just like EverQuest II or The Elder Scrolls Online does. Houses that a Player will never lose until the Game shuts down one day. By that Way, a Player could own Multiple Houses. SE could even design Furniture & many other Items for the Item Shop. Maybe they could even Design Trunks in that Players could store their Stuff, extra Storage and not only Retainers. So many missed opportunities.

I’m still confused if it’s one per account why my alt can’t share the house, ever said why we can’t do this?

First time post, but the housing thing has been on my mind.

Ahhh.. the times when you could just walk up to a empty House and buy it. I never had any trouble finding a House... but back then the Game did not nearly have as much players as it has now.

Another issue is that people stack on the same huge worlds/servers while others become wastelands. I switched from Shiva to Zodiark many years ago due to being stalked and Zodiark was a empty Server back then. Even Medium Houses were regularly free (small houses still are). I have my Medium House for like 5 years now?

I suggest switching to a more empty Home server if you really want a House. You can still server hop and play there if you wish.

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Originally Posted by Sunhwapark

Too many people want a large/medium only.
At least it seems that way on Chaos/Light DC, the nearby small plots that I live near haven't been bought for well over a year now, however I am in the goblet and from what I hear it's the least desired place to have a house for some.

The lotto system isn't 'better' than how it was in the past, but it's more healthy for how players can approach it and not risk their health and comfort for some pixels.
I say this as someone who did spend hours and hours without rest interacting with placards.

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Yeah, there is very little demand for Smalls and honestly, no wonder. You just really can't fit all that much into them and their gardens are pretty tiny. In every housing ward I look at, Medium/Large houses are taken and there are plenty of free Smalls because nobody wants them. Which is why it would be best if they just sold plots and we could upgrade them with gil and/or supplying materials. That way everyone would be happy.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

Yeah, there is very little demand for Smalls and honestly, no wonder. You just really can't fit all that much into them and their gardens are pretty tiny. In every housing ward I look at, Medium/Large houses are taken and there are plenty of free Smalls because nobody wants them. Which is why it would be best if they just sold plots and we could upgrade them with gil and/or supplying materials. That way everyone would be happy.

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I also agree with the idea of upgradable plots.
(Of course i have no idea how much strain it could maybe cause on the servers / when it comes to coding and how they could "reworks" the plots so these could potentialy change in the future to Large house, but i find the idea intersting due to the simple idea of an "evolving" house)

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Originally Posted by avaule

The ward housing system is holding them back in so many ways. There are so many cool places throughout the game and its expansions where they could add some really creative instanced housing. Personally, I'd love my own sky pirate base in the Sea of Clouds like the one from the HW alliance raid quests or my own wing of the Il Mheg castle so I can spend more time near my most wonderful branch. Heck, if they wanted to charge for it, I'd rather spend $2 a month extra for that than for a retainer any day.

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Other games do have a lot more options that I’d love to see brought to Eorzea! I’d personally like a little cabin in the Dravinian Hinterlands, or a plot off the coast of Old Sharlayan. :)

As far as payment though, as much as I’d be willing at this point, I think with an instanced system, at least the first “basic” home per account should be free. (If not all, but I get companies want to monetize things…) By that, I mean exactly equivalent to a ward plot, of any size, because the ward owners don’t have to pay any extra for theirs, and the whole point of this is so everyone can have an equivalent housing option.

Looking at ESO as a comparison, since someone mentioned it, there are a wide variety of small to medium homes in all different styles, from things that look like an actual house, to a campground, to a townhouse with a courtyard or just small inn rooms. The variety is amazing. Then you get into the large, elaborate, sprawling estates with multiple buildings… most of the stuff on the lower end of the scale can be bought with in-game currency, while the higher tier places can require the purchase of their crowns currency. (Which I think can also be earned and saved up, as well as bought outright.)

Now here’s the thing, since we’re talking about how much things would cost… ESO gets fairly criticized for the housing system being monetized. But they also don’t require a monthly subscription, so the cash shop is what supports them. Since we do pay a monthly sub, I would say it’s more than reasonable to give us a wide variety of basic instanced housing options included in our sub, and if they want to put ultra fancy versions on mogstation, fine, but that should be a one-time cost, not a recurring payment.