Is an addition to the Confiteor combo necessary?

PLD changes seem interesting enough, but why are we adding on to the finisher combo? Not only does it not look that cool, it just feels superfluous in what PLD needs which is honestly just for Goring Blade to be a DoT again and to have a gameplay loop that isn't just Warrior after Sunday School.

I'd have preferred to make Goring Blade AoE honestly, however, we could combine the 2. Make it AoE with no damage fall off, however, it DoTs the initial target struck. I suppose that could be classed as damage fall off, but it is a more unique way to do it.

Making it a DoT would make it no different from Sonic break in GNB, As Mikey says, making it an AoE with falloff would be a more interesting approach (as DRK/GNB/WAR have their 30s-ish cds split in single and AoE). Although I wouldnt be opposed of it beign a DoT if it kept the usage cooldown

Perhaps upgrading goring blade into a Halone themed animation with ice, such as the attacks she does, or making a new animation would be more satisfying

Im of the oppinion that Attonement charges could have recieved an AoE spender. Perhaps adding 3 swords behind the shield gauge instead of the buff we currently have to have a nicer way to track them

No, you're pretty much correct. Actions gated behind other actions will never be as interesting as an always-available button with inherent benefits and drawbacks to misuse that you can decide to employ as needed.

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Originally Posted by Raraka

Making it a DoT would make it no different from Sonic break in GNB, As Mikey says, making it an AoE with falloff would be a more interesting approach (as DRK/GNB/WAR have their 30s-ish cds split in single and AoE). Although I wouldnt be opposed of it beign a DoT if it kept the usage cooldown

Perhaps upgrading goring blade into a Halone themed animation with ice, such as the attacks she does, or making a new animation would be more satisfying

Im of the oppinion that Attonement charges could have recieved an AoE spender. Perhaps adding 3 swords behind the shield gauge instead of the buff we currently have to have a nicer way to track them

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I'm pretty sure what they're referring to is old goring blade which was a second combo finisher that was a DOT.

The Issue with Goring blade, is that it used to be a second combo finisher which effected how much you press Atonement, while Atonement was still "spam button" it wasn't quite as bad as it is currently. Turning it into a 60s button that lines up with your bursts, when you already have 4... Now 5 high potency burst buttons makes no sense gameplay wise.

PLD's current rotation has been ruined due to not having the finisher and doesn't need more 60s buttons, it needs more GCD combo paths to actually feel interesting and fun, PLD's already not a high APM job why does it have to be so bare bones and easy.

Atonement made a lot more sense when you actually had to line up your rotation with buffs, manage dots and all that jazz. It was pretty helpful being able to hold the remaining stacks to realign your dots with your cooldowns.

It's pretty amazing how blindly they hacked away every actual real mechanic of this job, none of it actually makes sense any more. SMN got nothing on this butchery, at least it makes sense conceptually - PLD is like if every ability was the new SMN's Fester. Completely baffling it still exists as a button without any overarching idea or flow to support or justify it. Except it's pretty much every ability.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

Atonement made a lot more sense when you actually had to line up your rotation with buffs, manage dots and all that jazz. It was pretty helpful being able to hold the remaining stacks to realign your dots with your buffs.

It's pretty amazing how blindly the hacked away every actual rotational mechanic of this job, none of it actually makes sense any more. Like SMN got nothing on this butchery, at least it makes sense conceptually - PLD is like if every ability was the new SMN's Fester. Completely baffling it still exists as button without any overarching idea or flow to support or justify it. Except it's pretty much every button.

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Pretty, without the 2nd combo finisher (aka goring blades dot), The rotation just breaks and becomes 1, 2, 3 "press what lights up" repeat. The only thing you really need to keep track of is lining up ocgds with your FOF window, which in itself is really easy because you don't have a lot of ocgds or a rotation that at least requires you to sometimes think...

I quit "maining" tank after this, because it's just not fun anymore, the job is slow and has a very boring rotation theirs pretty much nothing to learn or no room to grow on the job... it doesn't even feel "unique" from any other tank. Removing the DOT made the flow of the job just feel really off.

Small wonder why DRK is getting less ogcd's it feels so strange that tanks are being made more simple when they're so easy and bare bones, I guess "different animations" will distract most people at least.

Even if they had to make the DOT less strict or simplify the 2nd combo finisher the job would at least be somewhat like it used to but the fact is they just turns it into a generic 60s button, taking up space for reason, that you press once per minute, it might aswell not exist because we have 4.. now 5 spells for our "big burst buttons"

I would even take making the two damage damage oGCD’s have different timers that align under the two minute buff. Right now there is almost zero reason to not press those 2 as a combined double weave, same as there is near no reason to not press FOF and requiescat together

The problem of modern PLD is it has some theoretically interesting pieces but the job kinda plays itself in spite of these interesting factors

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

Pretty, without the 2nd combo finisher (aka goring blades dot), The rotation just breaks and becomes 1, 2, 3 "press what lights up" repeat. The only thing you really need to keep track of is lining up ocgds with your FOF window, which in itself is really easy because you don't have a lot of ocgds or a rotation that at least requires you to sometimes think...

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After I made the post, this was bough to my attention:

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Isn’t the 5th blade hit an oGCD based on the Color around the character during the trailer

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Which, after reviewing, does seem to be the case (my fault for assuming it would combo just like the rest). It does mean half the cases I provided aren't technically relevant, but I will keep them here non-the-less.

There are issues that come up with Goring Blade as a DoT. If we assume a 20 second DoT, you will be forced to drop 2 Sword Oath stacks, not out of choice, but because they do not have the required buff timer to allow it to happen. The 5th Blade hit will just make this issue worse.

If we assume a 30 second DoT, with the current 4 blade window, you can fit 2 Goring Blade combos, 2 Royal Authority combos and a 4 hit blade combo neatly into the 60 second window. It does mean that every 60 second window and burst phase is exactly the same, with the only variance being where you potentially put Divine Might Holy Spirit. There is no room to allow you to carry a Divine Might Holy Spirit into burst without overwriting other buffs. Not using and just overwriting these stacks is something I am not a fan of and was something that I did not like out of old PLD. You might disagree here though.

If we add the 5th blade hit in, it then necessarily pushes the whole rotation forward 1 GCD, which will lead to points where you need to refresh Goring Blade, but you have to do it early or wait for the next combo and apply it later.

So, there are issues in all cases here, whether you think they are an issue worth caring about is your opinion.

The main problem comes with Goring Blade being tied to the combo. This does mean a solution would be to keep it off of the comb, but shorten the cooldown so that it is used more frequently. Whilst I haven't laid out how the rotation would look, I don't think it interferes with anything, but of course, since it is no longer a combo, it goes against the whole idea of having a Goring Blade combo to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I would even take making the two damage damage oGCD’s have different timers that align under the two minute buff. Right now there is almost zero reason to not press those 2 as a combined double weave, same as there is near no reason to not press FOF and requiescat together

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The thing is, PLD is a 60 second job, so, in theory, they need to end up in the buff window every 60 seconds. We could make 1 40 seconds, but it then falls out of the odd minute windows. 20 seconds lines up with all windows, and would desync them outside of those windows. However, making 1 15 seconds does come with another tidbit. 15 seconds allows you to have 2 uses in the buff windows. This means you don't want it to drift in order to keep that.

So, I would propose one being 15 seconds and one being 20 seconds. Mainly so that they can both stay in the 60 second buff windows and they only line up in the buff windows, with the extra caveat that you do not want the 15 second one to drift so that you can keep 2 uses of it in the buff window.

Isn’t the 5th blade hit an oGCD based on the Color around the character during the trailer

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Isn’t the 5th blade hit an oGCD based on the Color around the character during the trailer

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If not have fun hitting all big gcd in the FoF window. If they don’t increase the timer for that same as no mercy it’s gonna be super tedious

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Originally Posted by Mortex

If not have fun hitting all big gcd in the FoF window. If they don’t increase the timer for that same as no mercy it’s gonna be super tedious

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PLD currently has 3 free GCDs under FoF, if it was a GCD (which, unless they change it, it isn't), it will just drop to 2 free GCDs. In both cases, one of those GCDs should be Divine Might Holy Spirit. If anything, it would normalise the damage of the burst even more than it currently is.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

PLD currently has 3 free GCDs under FoF, if it was a GCD (which, unless they change it, it isn't), it will just drop to 2 free GCDs. In both cases, one of those GCDs should be Divine Might Holy Spirit. If anything, it would normalise the damage of the burst even more than it currently is.

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Paladin still have some space here. I honestly thought that Square would make a new "Atonement" combo inside the FoF window to get rid of those 3 Free GCD, but they didn't for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Isn’t the 5th blade hit an oGCD based on the Color around the character during the trailer

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I'm not seeing this. Looks and is presented as a 5th Confiteor combo action to me.

https://i.imgur.com/r4RiGUB.gif

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Originally Posted by Nicola_Kunu

I'm not seeing this. Looks and is presented as a 5th Confiteor combo action to me.

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The blue swirl of light around the character themself is an indication of an oGCD action. If you watch the Paladin for the rest of the combo, that light doesn't appear when they're using any of the other Blade skills.

https://i.imgur.com/1vQWXom.png

Considering how it was mentioned that Goring Blade is only usable under FoF, then I guess it's safe to assume that this oGCD is only usable under Requiescat. I hope I am wrong

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Originally Posted by Jade_Tyrant

The blue swirl of light around the character themself is an indication of an oGCD action. If you watch the Paladin for the rest of the combo, that light doesn't appear when they're using any of the other Blade skills.

https://i.imgur.com/1vQWXom.png

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Is the blue swirl something ubiquitous across all oGCD actions? I've genuinely never noticed it before, so that's interesting to me!

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Originally Posted by rawker

Considering how it was mentioned that Goring Blade is only usable under FoF, then I guess it's safe to assume that this oGCD is only usable under Requiescat. I hope I am wrong

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I also hope that that's not... all there is to it. If it's an oGCD under Requiescat then the only function it has is to be an extra button in my 1 minute burst which isn't very functionally interesting as that doesn't interact with the rest of the Paladin's kit - it's just an extra button. Maybe it'll give an extra charge of Divine Might or something which is the only other thing happening on the job these days.

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Originally Posted by Nicola_Kunu

Is the blue swirl something ubiquitous across all oGCD actions? I've genuinely never noticed it before, so that's interesting to me!

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Yes

OGCD’s glow blue, GCD’s glow orange

It’s how people theroycraft a lot of things just from the trailers

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Originally Posted by Nicola_Kunu

I also hope that that's not... all there is to it. If it's an oGCD under Requiescat then the only function it has is to be an extra button in my 1 minute burst which isn't very functionally interesting as that doesn't interact with the rest of the Paladin's kit - it's just an extra button. Maybe it'll give an extra charge of Divine Might or something which is the only other thing happening on the job these days.

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Even worse, it might replace Expiacion's button when under Req to save button space. XD

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Originally Posted by Nicola_Kunu

Is the blue swirl something ubiquitous across all oGCD actions? I've genuinely never noticed it before, so that's interesting to me!

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After 8000+ hours of this game I never noticed LOL.

Confiteor 1 has blue glow while being a GCD but the chance of it being oGCD is there I suppose.

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Originally Posted by CryBless

Confiteor 1 has blue glow while being a GCD but the chance of it being oGCD is there I suppose.

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There are exceptions you can find in several jobs, but nearly all OGCDs have the blue swirl, nearly all Weaponskills have the yellow aura, and nearly all spells have a colored aura according to their element.

It is more reasonable to assume it is an OGCD due to its visual coding than it is to assume it's another GCD. Edge cases exist and for what reason we can only speculate.

Trailers though can be misleading in this regard as they only showcase animations, and the actual implementation can change moving forward.

Endwalker's Dark Knight trailer showed Shadowbringer as GCD weaponskill coded and Unleash as OGCD coded.

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Originally Posted by CryBless

Confiteor 1 has blue glow while being a GCD but the chance of it being oGCD is there I suppose.

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Interestingly enough, it has a blue glow, but it is mixed with an orange glow, but it isn't the weaponskill orange glow. It makes me wonder if they just used the same glow for the visual effect. It has had this glow since Shadowbringers, so it isn't new.

However, I would say the more important bit is the fact the rest of the combo does NOT have any glow (except the normal healing one). The last hit has a blue glow, so it doesn't seem to combo off of Blade of Valor, plus it has not heal effect, which you would expect from a blade combo hit.

The Redmageification of Paladin's magic is very amusing, the job designers need to play WoW again to realise the reason people like magic classes is because of the whole casting part of magic.

PLD should have had an angel mode instead of SCH. Would have probably been considerably more badass and in line with the job fantasy.

Amongst everything said here, as a Paladin pocket main, i just don't see how the new dlc is gonna make the job more fun. **Something** is done to it but i don't feel anything that would make me want to play it more than it already does. GG to Warrior bros ig...

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

PLD should have had an angel mode instead of SCH. Would have probably been considerably more badass and in line with the job fantasy.

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depends what you mean by "angel mode" If it's the same costume as scholar... No please no.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

depends what you mean by "angel mode" If it's the same costume as scholar... No please no.

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Make Requiescat give us angel wings and also causes every single ability to become a ranged magic attack to make a proper magic phase for 30 seconds :^)

Oh please. Spare paladin from that garbage aesthetic.

I don't even know what tank to main next expac. Everyone is getting basically nothing. Whether its one more button on the finisher or an oGCD instead, that's not enough to make the job more interesting.

From looking at the job action trailer for PLD I honestly feel bad for them. The next Confiteor combo doesn't even use the swords to strike down on the enemy so not sure what was the design point for that.