Other Final Fantasy references you'd like to see in Dawntrail?

Well we finally got the job action trailer, and the discourse that comes along with it. So let's change topics, and talk about something a bit more wholesome.

What Final Fantasy references do you wanna see in Dawntrail?

The current front-runners for references are: Final Fantasy IX, Final Fantasy X, & Final Fantasy VI, but obviously any references work.

I for one really wanna run into an NPC, in the Pictomancer questline, named Clyde Arrowny. I mean, they already dropped Relm's name.

More GREG.

Them not messing up FFXI characterization would also be great. I'm hoping it's Ivalice Raid great. Hopes not high on that front. I expect much of FFXI's sheer depth to be very shallow and I'm going to brace for impact.

I think we can realistically expect IX and X references. Lots of stuff is primarily IX.

Edit: I ultimately prefer XIV to stand on it's own merit with original content. And the majority of XIV ultimately led to a poor man's Occuria from XII.

There are no FF references that I am interested in seeing. None whatsoever.
Mostly because I am not familiar with any other FF games, and I dislike the existing content that too obviously expects us to recognize the references. (The "Return to Ivalice" raids are the main offender here.)

Nada. There's a shortage of original lore.

They include so many references, sometimes very cheaply, left and right already that I really don't care. Just give me more original lore.

I know Dawntrail will be full of references anyway, because a lot of gaming/geek culture fans are like
https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video_th...63XIAct2ES.jpg

FF9 :rolleyes:

We have FF9 minions, a mount, some of the Dawntrail music resembles FF9 a bit, and knowing this you can see certain things in the plot inspired by it but the plot is still very different because it's an MMORPG and has to fit around their formula.

While I prefer original lore, it would be neat to see Jenova from FFVII, with FFXIV flavour of course. Space is a thing and the alien-infested remains could be used for an interesting storyline.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

More GREG.

Them not messing up FFXI characterization would also be great. I'm hoping it's Ivalice Raid great. Hopes not high on that front. I expect much of FFXI's sheer depth to be very shallow and I'm going to brace for impact.

---

Yeah, considering the only teaser image we have of the FFXI raid is... artwork of Shadowlord... I wouldn't hold my breath (I mean, the guy has the most generic appearence and name possible - yes I know who he really is/was, but that's not the point). And when you get right down to it, FFXI's story for the longest time was little more than "oh, beastmen are causing trouble again, better go do something about that", until it segues into "oh, you know that prettyboy 'duke' and his creepy 'little' brother who were so nice to the three cities and helped the Middle Lands beat the beastmen last time? Oops, they lied! Oh dear, turns out they're really ancient evil and want us all dead, better do something about that as well."

It got much better after that, but it was just such an effort to get to that point (the Zilart missions truly were brutal to slog through), I don't see FFXI's fanservice raid in DT accordingly being anything other than like how the Eden raids were only tangently connected to FFVIII - we're just going to get a Hydaelyn-set area in lore that has a few references in enemies and maybe the odd place or two (odds are high one area will be named 'Castle Zvahl', and probably an area called 'Gates of Paradise' or something), and Shadowlord will be fought at one point, but we're simply not going to be going to the actual Vana'diel (which is already established as being an entirelly seperate different world in a completely different dimension), that's being pragmatic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eloah

I for one really wanna run into an NPC, in the Pictomancer questline, named Clyde Arrowny. I mean, they already dropped Relm's name.

---

Along with that… Interceptor minion. Or mount. :D

I don't want any, but I'm well aware that's impossible.

Blitzball. More FFX and FFIX references in general.

I would love to fight Sephiroth, I thought he was going to be the final boss of the last omega tier at first. I like what we got, but now I want a Sephy fight somewhere.

Some people seem to indicate that they don't want any references because they want "original lore". But referencing something doesn't mean there won't be any original lore. Every FF game makes references to the ones before it in it's own unique ways. That's what makes this an anthology series. I mean the FFXVI DLC actually references an original FFXIV character. So nothing is off the table.

Well considering they view FFXIV as a "final fantasy themepark", there are going to always be references.

FFXI and FFVI.

As someone that has not really touched other ff titles aside from 16 and 7 remake I don't want a bunch of references or worse story steps based on them, such as the EW patch quests. I don't appreciate the references since I don't know the background but I get the annoyance of people spouting the plot before it's even out because they DO know the story from the game it's referencing. I don't want the story to be so blatantly obvious to people that they can spoil it for me thanks. FFXIV should have more of it's own story and less old game callbacks in the MSQ. Stick it in side quests or something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eloah

Some people seem to indicate that they don't want any references because they want "original lore". But referencing something doesn't mean there won't be any original lore. Every FF game makes references to the ones before it in it's own unique ways. That's what makes this an anthology series. I mean the FFXVI DLC actually references an original FFXIV character. So nothing is off the table.

---

The problem is we're surrounded by those that have played other games in the franchise, have their favorites, and complain bitterly when their favorites don't get enough "screen time" or are "done wrong" in their opinion. Or worse, when they're able to predict with fair accuracy what is going to happen because characters, places, etc. are essentially being reused with minor changes at best.

The only way to avoid the comparisons and predictions is to isolate yourself completely from other players, which makes no sense in a MMO. Interacting with other players and having a shared game experience is a core part of the MMO experience.

FFXVI is a single player game that a lot of us haven't played because it's PS5 only. I don't care that it has a DLC with a reference to a FFXIV character, nor does having such a reference make me want to go out and buy out. Games need to stand (or fall) on their own merits, and not because they borrow characters from other games.

Better if everything in game was original instead of just part of it considering the FF franchise isn't supposed to be taking place in a single universe. It's understood that the copycat fan service is going to end up part of the game but that doesn't change that for some, those references detract from the game experience instead of adding to it in a MMO.

None, I want them to make an original story and not rely on nostalgia to pull people in. Side quests, sure, but the MSQ or alliance raids? Nope. Not a fan.

The EDW story is basically one huge reference with little original lore. And I'm not talking about the post-EDW content, about 6.0.

So many things, concepts, backstories, and entire characters exist as references. Some are very major ones. The backstory of the world is a reference itself. But you probably wouldn't notice if you're unaware of the source of that reference. And they change things around so it's not the same. XIV's Ivalice lore for example, is so different from the Ivalice games, and stands on its own just fine.

frog catching and eating minigame from ffix

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the-kuponut

The EDW story is basically one huge reference with little original lore. And I'm not talking about the post-EDW content, about 6.0.

So many things, concepts, backstories, and entire characters exist as references. Some are very major ones. The backstory of the world is a reference itself. But you probably wouldn't notice if you're unaware of the source of that reference. And they change things around so it's not the same. XIV's Ivalice lore for example, is so different from the Ivalice games, and stands on its own just fine.

---

How is the backstory of the world a reference? While the Endwalker story isn't anything new in general, it is original to XIV. Yes there are references to IV, but nothing is a pure 1:1 copy.

I remember way back, they showed a screenshot of a desert area, with a huge spherical area blanked out to avoid spoilers. Some people thought it was a blitzball arena, although I don't think it would make sense to plunk one of those down in the middle of nowhere. I was actually hoping for Esthar, the futuristic city from FFVIII. It's shielded from the outside world by a force field that makes it invisible.

Then they showed us Solution Nine, and it seemed even more likely that Esthar would appear somehow. Although, technically that name is an FFIX reference, but then again FFIX doesn't have any futuristic cities. I guess the villain had a floating high-tech ship of some sort, but I think it was called Pandaemonium (?) and we already have something called that in FFXIV.

Anyway, my point is, I love FFVIII so I want more FFVIII things please.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eloah

How is the backstory of the world a reference? While the Endwalker story isn't anything new in general, it is original to XIV. Yes there are references to IV, but nothing is a pure 1:1 copy.

---

Spoilers ahead

FFVII

Ancients = Cetra and Meteion is essentially Jenova. Calamity from the sky that tried to destroy the planet, who can read emotions and use them against people, which turns people into monsters. Wol is rejoined more times than others and their connection with the ancients mirrors how Aerith is half Cetra and both save the planet and their companions, Aerith by controlling the lifestream and Wol by the overflow in Dynamis.

FFXIV's ancients even are are stewards to the planet, and are gifted in magic.

FFXII

And Venat in FFXII was a rebel occuria (FFXII gods), the same as Venat opposing the ancients, and their world is described as "paradise".

There are more but these are the most major ones, especially FFVII's, It's way close to the story, more than any other imo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eloah

Well we finally got the job action trailer, and the discourse that comes along with it. So let's change topics, and talk about something a bit more wholesome.

What Final Fantasy references do you wanna see in Dawntrail?

The current front-runners for references are: Final Fantasy IX, Final Fantasy X, & Final Fantasy VI, but obviously any references work.

I for one really wanna run into an NPC, in the Pictomancer questline, named Clyde Arrowny. I mean, they already dropped Relm's name.

---

I think we're good on references. IX, a little bit of X, and the 24 man being XI themed. If they can write it in to be similar, yet it's own continuity that's fine. Krile is a reference to FFV, and her dad, Galuf also both in V and XIV. Sounds like Relm will be the sam... wait, that woman on the top of the DawnTrail poster, that couldn't be XIV's Relm could it?

Not sure if we want XIV to become the abridged version of Final Fantasy. I like references, though I groaned a bit with the Stormblood Omega raids. Ivalice/Bozja felt like it fit, so more of that please. Oddly we got a taste of FFXI with Eureka, so I'm curious if that will play into the new 24-man. We have Absolute Virtue as a boss, with the 'Sea' enemies in game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the-kuponut

Spoilers ahead

FFVII

Ancients = Cetra and Meteion is essentially Jenova. Calamity from the sky that tried to destroy the planet, who can read emotions and use them against people, which turns people into monsters. Wol is rejoined more times than others and their connection with the ancients mirrors how Aerith is half Cetra and both save the planet and their companions, Aerith by controlling the lifestream and Wol by the overflow in Dynamis.

FFXIV's ancients even are are stewards to the planet, and are gifted in magic.

FFXII

And Venat in FFXII was a rebel occuria (FFXII gods), the same as Venat opposing the ancients, and their world is described as "paradise".

There are more but these are the most major ones, especially FFVII's, It's way close to the story, more than any other imo.

---

OMG seriously, that's not a reference to anything. The series has being using the "advanced ancient civilization" trope since the very first game.

And for that trope, why are you singling out VII? What about Cecil being half-Lunarian, or Terra being half-Esper, and their connections to their worlds? Or how the splitting of the world and its rejoining is similar to V. How destroying the world happened in VI. III had a floating island to escape a flood. VIII had it's own stable time loop and faded memories. IX has alien invaders too; who are trying to merge worlds, heralded by an emotionally unstable construct. X has another highly advanced civilization that used creation magics. None of these are new. But that doesn't mean the story itself is a reference to a previous entry.

And yes the name Venat is a reference to the similar character from XII. But other than that they are wholly original. And Meteion isn't a Jenova reference. A better example is a "better" introduced Necron. As similar to Necron she just "appears".

I honestly would prefer xiv to focus on referencing xiv as much as it can for a while. Rehashing previous FF stories and characters can make XIV's identity feel thin if done too much. I'd like to see content that other games can reference XIV with in the future ya know?

More Chocobos, maybe some white, some black, some Blue chocobos. They seem to have largely disappeared.

I honestly prefer it when FFXIV keeps the fanservice to a minimum to old games.

I don't mind when they do things like the victory poses, or even the new GNB combo, but whatever the post story of EW was meant to be was going way too far.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the-kuponut

Spoilers ahead

FFVII

Ancients = Cetra and Meteion is essentially Jenova. Calamity from the sky that tried to destroy the planet, who can read emotions and use them against people, which turns people into monsters. Wol is rejoined more times than others and their connection with the ancients mirrors how Aerith is half Cetra and both save the planet and their companions, Aerith by controlling the lifestream and Wol by the overflow in Dynamis.

FFXIV's ancients even are are stewards to the planet, and are gifted in magic.

FFXII

And Venat in FFXII was a rebel occuria (FFXII gods), the same as Venat opposing the ancients, and their world is described as "paradise".

There are more but these are the most major ones, especially FFVII's, It's way close to the story, more than any other imo.

---

The "Ancients" in XIV are closer to the idea of

Ancients from Final Fantasy III. Ancient civilization with high power and knowledge that accidentally caused a world catastrophe (in this case the flood of light, which was a plot point used for Shadowbringers, incidentally the expansion that actually introduced Ascians as Ancients)

Endwalker with the Ancients actually has stronger parallels to the Kingdom of Zeal and the Calamity Lavos from Chrono Trigger. Other then that it's a very poor Occuria retread from XII.

Shadowbringers had bigger original lore and I was all for it and super engaged in the storytelling.

Endwalker was all over the place. It was like comparing the Mona Lisa to a Abstract painting comprised of multiple disfigured geometric shapes.

WE. NEED. BURMECIANS!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Endwalker with the Ancients actually has stronger parallels to the Kingdom of Zeal and the Calamity Lavos from Chrono Trigger. Other then that it's a very poor Occuria retread from XII.

Shadowbringers had bigger original lore and I was all for it and super engaged in the storytelling.

Endwalker was all over the place. It was like comparing the Mona Lisa to a Abstract painting comprised of multiple disfigured geometric shapes.

---

The ancients also somewhat similar to ff11 ancient races the zilart and kuluu and kam'lanaut and his brother are similar to emet selch and wants to restore their ancient races/civilization/paradise.

Please god why haven't we gotten Blitzball yet, it'd be a great fit for the Gold Saucer. And while I'm at it, I'm confident the new expac will be at least a little tropical feeling, could be a great opportunity for some FFX callbacks

See, the whole "advanced ancient civilization" thing isn't a reference to anything specific, it's just a common trope. If a story treds on long enough, like say 10 years, certain commonalities are bound to pop up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eloah

And yes the name Venat is a reference to the similar character from XII. But other than that they are wholly original. And Meteion isn't a Jenova reference. A better example is a "better" introduced Necron. As similar to Necron she just "appears".

---

Yeah Meteion is definitely a Necron equivalent. For all everyone focused on IV, a lot of the themes in Endwalker are much more similar to IX's. But that kind of fits. IX was a happy-to-lucky cheerful story on the surface with a dark underbelly like EW had IV trappings on the surface but a lot of IX underneath. There is a pretty strong parallel with Venat I'd argue. The Ancients are like a more beneficient Occuria but still have a similar idea that what they think is right is right for everyone. Venat in both cases was the rebel agent who freed mankind/the star to succeed or fail on their own.

To the OP, I'm vibrating in excitement at seeing how the devs present IX through the lens of XIV. One of the tribes is also a X reference and there is plenty of room to also view X through the lens of XIV. I didn't play XI so I can take or leave the alliance raid. If they do it like Ivalice where things are firmly integrated into XIV's world in their own way and they have easter eggs for those in the know, then that would work very well. Nobody really needed to know Tactics or XII to understand the story of Ivalice, just to get some of the references and understand how they were changed for XIV's implementation.

I would want more references outside the numbered series. WOULD love some Crystal Chronicle references, I enjoyed the small one in the scene with Endwalker's relic weapon.

Would love to see some monsters however from that series. Maybe the snake lady from the Manor dungeon.