Please Don't Rework Huton (Ninja) Live-Letter Feedback

It was cool having Huton be a buff you had to keep up. It was fun and the visual timer looked cool. Please revert the live-letter change to make it a trait. It was another small thing you had to manage and it was engaging.

Huton got Greased Lightning-ed

I like that change.
It is more annoying as fun, to keep the time up (even, with the skills to fill it up instantly).

The change is a nice to have change (dont find the right word for that now)

I dont feel strongly about this particular change, but I sympathize with seeing your job become shallower with each expansion and wanting to hang on to the friction there is left. I dont think the game is changing course anytime soon, though.

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Originally Posted by velswen

It was cool having Huton be a buff you had to keep up. It was fun and the visua timer looked cool. Please revert the live-letter change to make it a trait. It was another small thing you had to manage and it was engaging.

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Having to maintain a buff is neither interesting and engaging, its just busywork. Busywork is not gameplay depth. Having to make vaguely interesting decisions is. I'm happy that they're removing it, it will be interesting to see what they do with armor crush and hurajin. Hopefully the decision to finish the combo with armor break rather than aeolian edge will be something more interesting than the current "is huton about to expire" single braincell decision.

Also looking forward not to have to do huton+vanish before each boss

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

Having to maintain a buff is neither interesting and engaging, its just busywork. Busywork is not gameplay depth. Having to make vaguely interesting decisions is. I'm happy that they're removing it, it will be interesting to see what they do with armor crush and hurajin. Hopefully the decision to finish the combo with armor break rather than aeolian edge will be something more interesting than the current "is huton about to expire" single braincell decision.

Also looking forward not to have to do huton+vanish before each boss

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Seems like Armor Crush now adds two charges of that new kunai meter, while Aeolian Edge removes one from it. Hurajin probably got removed.

But what you find annoying, I find fun. I think having friction in job design is good, and it makes it more engaging and interesting.

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

Having to maintain a buff is neither interesting and engaging, its just busywork. Busywork is not gameplay depth. Having to make vaguely interesting decisions is. I'm happy that they're removing it, it will be interesting to see what they do with armor crush and hurajin. Hopefully the decision to finish the combo with armor break rather than aeolian edge will be something more interesting than the current "is huton about to expire" single braincell decision.

Also looking forward not to have to do huton+vanish before each boss

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It is interesting to me. You may disagree, but that is your opinion. It does make it more interesting and involves additional separate gameplay considerations if you are KO'd or there is long downtime. For instance, if the boss becomes invincible for a long period of time, you may have to refresh your buff earlier than normal to avoid losing the buff or having to use Ninjutsu/Hurajin to reapply it. That is depth. Just because you can't see it or don't enjoy it doesn't mean it isn't an added layer.

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Originally Posted by Print_Screen

I dont feel strongly about this particular change, but I sympathize with seeing your job become shallower with each expansion and wanting to hang on to the friction there is left. I dont think the game is changing course anytime soon, though.

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Thank you. I wish they would add more systems and friction to jobs instead of removing it. It is very disappointing. We will be level 100, but the jobs are easier to play with less thinking involved than at level 70 oftentimes.

why am i not surprised it's getting cut. these devs, honestly.

Is there a single job that is improving on this miserable expansion?
It seems everyone took a hit somewhere and nothing new makes up for it.

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Originally Posted by velswen

It is interesting to me. You may disagree, but that is your opinion. It does make it more interesting and involves additional separate gameplay considerations if you are KO'd or there is long downtime. For instance, if the boss becomes invincible for a long period of time, you may have to refresh your buff earlier than normal to avoid losing the buff or having to use Ninjutsu/Hurajin to reapply it. That is depth. Just because you can't see it or don't enjoy it doesn't mean it isn't an added layer.

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"I may have to press a different button sometimes" is depth. ok

What the hell is the depth that they're adding to the game, then? All they do is streamline and remove things. To make room. For what? Another action you can use once every 2 minutes?

Please understand, gotta simplify the jobs so you can focus more on having no fun while you wipe to the 20th body check in the raid, you know... the raids nobody that asks for these changes does in the first place.

I kinda had a feeling this would be the case . It was inevitable but I don't mind since it frees up a button and the Huton mudra is now more then a one and done prebattle as it appears to be a wind aoe now . It looks like there's enough abilities and changes added to make up for it IMO and make me more excited to keep maining it as I was considering playing viper. Honestly a ninja should be naturally fast with a alot of ninja tools to play with which seems the direction they're going with instead of just maintaining Ninki and Huton outside of your burst .

I've been playing since 2.0/NIN main since StormB but never really got into pvp till the beginning of EW and found it refreshing not having to worry about Huton and just straight up murking fools from the get go . I think people will realize how much of a burden it was once it's gone

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Originally Posted by Post

What the hell is the depth that they're adding to the game, then? All they do is streamline and remove things. To make room. For what? Another action you can use once every 2 minutes?

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I don't know where and if they're adding depth, but removing pointless busywork is good nonetheless.

It's all pointless busyworks and now both Monk and Ninja have had their buff management removed because god forbid you have some variety in jobs.

I still kinda wonder about Huraijin.. but I wonder more about the Mudra Combination for Huton.. what will that do then??

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Originally Posted by RyuuZero

but I wonder more about the Mudra Combination for Huton.. what will that do then??

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We already know it's an AoE Suiton. It grants Hidden on use.

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Originally Posted by RyuuZero

I still kinda wonder about Huraijin.. but I wonder more about the Mudra Combination for Huton.. what will that do then??

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Hurajin will just get removed and Huton will be wind aoe that gives the hidden status ... it's so cool if you think about it a ninja vanishing in the wind haha

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

I don't know where and if they're adding depth, but removing pointless busywork is good nonetheless.

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Unfortunately, after years of removing depth (and everything remotely resembling it) from the jobs, they're not suddenly going to start bringing it back. At the rate we're going, it's only a matter of time before they ax something you like about the job you play--all in the name of removing "pointless busywork", because that is quite literally all that is left now.

Please do. Upkeep buffs are always annoying in games with downtime.

So, instead of using an armor crush about every 2 aeolian edges to refresh your buff you're going to be using armor crush about every 2 aeolian edges to charge your buff?
Is using huton once before the fight and watching the pinwheel tick down that important?
Mechanically it feels like it's just going to remove some pre-fight tedious preparations.

I loved NIN in ShB, I love it more in EW, and I'm very hype for DT after what we learned today.

I have no particular attachment to huton qua GCD buff, and I won't mind no longer getting got when tanks insta pull before I've timed huton. Plus, now I get to use wind element on opponents and not just on myself.

Playing Ninja in 50 content just became as easy and uninteresting as playing Reaper, lmao. Pretty soon there won't be a job left where a brand new player can escape pushing the same five buttons for 300+ hours.

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Originally Posted by Silhart

Unfortunately, after years of removing depth (and everything remotely resembling it) from the jobs, they're not suddenly going to start bringing it back. At the rate we're going, it's only a matter of time before they ax something you like about the job you play--all in the name of removing "pointless busywork", because that is quite literally all that is left now.

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I mean i never thought there was any depth myself so it makes no difference to me.

As long as the mobs/boss follow a repetitive scripted pattern, so do the players.

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Originally Posted by vetch

Playing Ninja in 50 content just became as easy and uninteresting as playing Reaper, lmao. Pretty soon there won't be a job left where a brand new player can escape pushing the same five buttons for 300+ hours.

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Playing 50 ninja is just the most annoying thing currently . I think it will add more to do since you can put a aoe wind attack and more raitons in your rotation. 52-60 experience is no better as EW basically made that level range just Huton maintenance with Armor crush/54 , Hakke Muji/52 and Hurajin/60 . When they added Hurajin as a safety net was when Huton lost its management complexity to where you constantly had to think about how to keep it up or to recast it at the right times during transitions . Who says this new kunai buff gauge isn't more complex then paying attention to a timer , it's certainly looks more fun to engage with . We don't know anything about it other than it's used for AE and possibly Raijus to build and maintain stacks during burst , seems like a better trade off to me in the overall ninja experience

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Originally Posted by Sigiria

So, instead of using an armor crush about every 2 aeolian edges to refresh your buff you're going to be using armor crush about every 2 aeolian edges to charge your buff?
Is using huton once before the fight and watching the pinwheel tick down that important?
Mechanically it feels like it's just going to remove some pre-fight tedious preparations.

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Actually let me change that stance, if anything it's probably gonna add a little bit more depth than the current system since at least now you'll have to try to enter the burst phases with enough stacks to fit as many aeolian edges as you can into it instead of just "is timer under 30sec? Yes: Armor crush | No: Aeolian edge"

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Originally Posted by Sigiria

Actually let me change that stance, if anything it's probably gonna add a little bit more depth than the current system since at least now you'll have to try to enter the burst phases with enough stacks to fit as many aeolian edges as you can into it instead of just "is timer under 30sec? Yes: Armor crush | No: Aeolian edge"

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I'm just gonna speculate but I think the kunai meter will buff both Aeolian edge and Raijus leading you to at least use Armor Crush twice to setup your burst . Maybe Hide will now reset you kunai meter and mudra charges since pre hide Doton and Huton aren't a thing no more . I kinda hope the kunai adds a guaranteed crit or DH and not just added potency because you already get added potency with Bunshin , buff stacking to make your attacks really impactful

I think some people are overestimating new Huton and its 'Hide' effect; it's just a method to gain the Suiton buff that hits an AoE instead of single target, so trash packs take less thought about how to use your cooldowns. Those dungeons won't streamline themselves.

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Originally Posted by Post

I think some people are overestimating new Huton and its 'Hide' effect; it's just a method to gain the Suiton buff that hits an AoE instead of single target, so trash packs take less thought about how to use your cooldowns. Those dungeons won't streamline themselves.

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It certainly won't be optimal since Ninja already has much better AoE mudras. It reads more like CBU3 just wants bad players to do some damage no matter what buttons they press.

And yet, they're leaving the failure rabbit in?

Kunai system is still very mysterious right now,
I really doubt aelion edge is the only GCD affected by it and the fact that armor crush only gives you 2/5 kunais (maybe Suiton also grant you kunais) is odd (odd as in why do we need 5)
fleeting/forked raiju was not shown at all so they could also be buffed by this new system and seems like mug/trick attack was upgraded/replaced with that poison mist

honestly feels like Nin got more of a rework than DRG rn

Keeping up Huton at lower levels (before unlocking Armor Crush) is a boring, un-fun experience.

Between this change and Monk, it seems like the devs want us to be less focused on monitoring timers and more on rotations/combos, and I'm 100% here for it.

The ONLY thing I'm not crazy about is the new ability that looks vaguely like poison spit.
Poisons don't really seem compatible with a heroic character like the WoL.

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

Is there a single job that is improving on this miserable expansion?
It seems everyone took a hit somewhere and nothing new makes up for it.

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would say that I like the mch (probably I am one of the few, but I just love my toys) and not having to worry that "now I have 70 hear and per muscle memory I used the skill that gices me 50, so 20 is gone though the drain" anymore

I hate the summoner addition of pictomancers fanfic bahamut

now on with the actual topic (huton) im fine with it, (talking as someone that plays Ninja as only an alter) because I keep forgeting to renew it. so at least I belive its a good change for casual ninjas. (can't talk about main ninjas)

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Originally Posted by rawker

Huton got Greased Lightning-ed

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Greased was at least fun to build up (if you were a casual). Since you could feel your rotation go faster each sequence.

Why not?
Poison is a weapon like every other. Archer use(d) it. The summoner even used Miasma.
There is no reason, that the WoL doesnt use poison. Esspecial, when poison is mostly connected to assasins and ninja

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Originally Posted by StriderZessei

The ONLY thing I'm not crazy about is the new ability that looks vaguely like poison spit.
Poisons don't really seem compatible with a heroic character like the WoL.

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considering RPR BLM and WHM lore, using poison is actually quite mild, and being honest it fits a ninja to use poison

Eh, the action animation looks wonky in the way the character rears back, and for the ability to not be a DoT (I assume) is odd for a poison attack.

Also, ninja very rarely, if ever, actually carried out assassinations, so it's not really on-brand for them.

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Originally Posted by StriderZessei

Eh, the action animation looks wonky in the way the character rears back, and for the ability to not be a DoT (I assume) is odd for a poison attack.

Also, ninja very rarely, if ever, actually carried out assassinations, so it's not really on-brand for them.

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you could say then that you picked some bad habits from when you were a rogue