Question about Horns / Antlers

Is there any basis in the lore of XIV or other FF titles that would explain someone horns/antlers other than being a Padjaali or some kind of Voidsent? I'm big on nature themes but Padjaali don't really appeal to me so I was curious.

Thanks!

I'm assuming we're leaving out au ra, and if we are, then the only existing example is the edge case of succubi; they aren't actually 'people with horns', but are sort of deliberately supposed to look like they are.

Other than that, nothing, but there's plenty of room for you to make up your own, and a handful of horn headpieces to help you, although not a great amount. I'd ask you to question, for your own sake, why the padjali don't appeal but horns and nature themes do, becuase they're really your only canon option and you seem to have rejected them very nebulously, but if you just want to make up your own Dude With Antlers there's nothing stopping you.

Other Final Fantasy species with horns include the gria, a species of dragon-like humanoids (kinda like au ra with wings), FFX's ronso (unlike the hrothgar of the Source and ronso of the First, these are always shown with a single horn), and FFIX summoners (basically humans with single horns that are capable of summoning). Yukes often have horns but they're.... less humanoid, being metalic and bird-like (and maybe incorporeal? I remember that concept changing a bit as the Crystal Chronicles games went by).

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Originally Posted by BunnyBois

Is there any basis in the lore of XIV or other FF titles that would explain someone horns/antlers other than being a Padjaali or some kind of Voidsent?

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It depends on how far you're willing to traverse into the "you can't prove a negative" / "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" of the lore, imho.

Roleplayers often operate in that gray area; inventing things that don't exist yet but haven't been conceptually ruled out, either - even if they might or might not later be proven unfeasible. If an entire race of the player species can have horns naturally (Au Ra), and a powerful third-party aetherial/magickal effect can grant horns artificially (Padjal), and we've seen profoundly tempered individuals end up with traits found in the surrounding fauna, there's arguably plenty of room to make something up if you're willing to lore-bend. Another powerful third party, Allagan genetic technology, lost alchemical and/or thaumaturlogical experiments...



Incidentally, between the melanion genus (e.g. coeurlregina) and the upcoming trip to the rough analogue of the the Americas, it might be an auspicious time to explore adding adding some broad, palmate antlers to the horn-mimicking headpieces in the game.
I'm sure someone would wear them.

You could hail from an ancient tribe of auspice of deers, and you shapeshift into a human with antlers, and you can base their culture around whatever existing deer culture there is. For example, if your basing it on fairy tale, the tribe of deers could have made their own kingdom somewhere and you're a princess or prince, or base on this deer from the one in Buddhism

Thanks for the replies everyone. Plenty here to chew one.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

why the padjali don't appeal but horns and nature themes do, becuase they're really your only canon option and you seem to have rejected them very nebulously,

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Mainly that they largely seem to remain in a child-like state. The only exception to that seems to be Kan-E-Senna, to a certain degree, but if my memory of the White Mage quests holds up E-Sumi-Yan is older than she is and he's squarely stuck looking like he stopped aging at 12.

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Originally Posted by BunnyBois

The only exception to that seems to be Kan-E-Senna, to a certain degree

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Heck, even Kan-E still looks like a tween, imo. Her hair / make-up / clothing patterns are deliberate choices to appear older and be taken more seriously by others, but if you know that and really take a close look, still looks like a kid at a beauty pageant, lol.

https://static0.gamerantimages.com/w...1/ftSCHi7R.jpg

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Originally Posted by BunnyBois

Mainly that they largely seem to remain in a child-like state. The only exception to that seems to be Kan-E-Senna, to a certain degree, but if my memory of the White Mage quests holds up E-Sumi-Yan is older than she is and he's squarely stuck looking like he stopped aging at 12.

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He is much, much older. Kan-E-Senna is 28 at the start of the game while E-Sumi-Yan is a bit over 200 years old.

Still grumbling about the missed opportunity for the jackalope joke with Male Vieras and how much I want one antler headpiece and one M!Viera NPC in North Tural wearing it.

I still feel like Au Ra were originally supposed to have normal horns and ears like the concept art we’ve seen before of them and how similar to oni the Raen are (Japanese aesthetic, live in the mountains, fight all the time). My theory is that the devs ended up giving them the dumb horn-ears because they couldn’t figure out how to get hats and helmets to work with horns.

I've been meaning to look up this "Padjal" people and see what I could find on them. E-Sumi-Yan is a bit disconcerting (the huge irises), but the Senna sisters are adorable, if not also confusing. I saw a bit about Raya-o-Senna worried she'll never marry over her responsibilities, but thought "you got time, kid" only to then find out she's not *actually* a kid. The Padjal just confuse me at this point and I'm hoping to find more out about them, given there's nothing (that I've seen) to explain them so far.

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Originally Posted by Miggy_Bandit

The Padjal just confuse me at this point and I'm hoping to find more out about them, given there's nothing (that I've seen) to explain them so far.

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Welcome to the forums!

Padjal are Hyur native to the Twelveswood (Black Shroud) who are chosen at a very young age by the elementals to be their ambassadors. They typically, but not always descend from specific Gridanian families. They have increased aether sensitivity and can communicate with elementals. A side-effect of their being chosen is represented by growing horns but never growing up past puberty. They tend to live to be several hundred years old though.

According to an interview with Koji Fox (ex-lead English localizer who closely worked with Banri Oda in creating lore), there are about 10 known Padjal in existence at any one time with 1 or 2 hidden in the woods. A new Padjal supposedly arises once in a generation or so but we have 3 roughly around the same age.

Another mystery is that they supposedly have their own language (though this may be attributed to the elementals) and their own myths and culture. Not sure how much of that may be abandoned lore from older versions of the game.

If you continue your WHM questline you will learn more about the Padjal as you go along.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Another mystery is that they supposedly have their own language (though this may be attributed to the elementals) and their own myths and culture. Not sure how much of that may be abandoned lore from older versions of the game.

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Specifically, their language (seen both in their own names and the names of Toto-Rak and Tam-Tara) is based on the Ainu, an indigenous people of Japan. In-universe the language might have been appropriated from the Duskwight of Gelmorra, but I don't recall where exactly that notion came from. They also started happening after the people that would become the original Gridanian settlers made a pact with the Elementals; it wasn't that the Elementals went 'okay, those guys that're already around, those are our guys'.

White Mage gives you a bulk of the Padjali's story, but once you get to it, Endwalker's tank role quest chips in some helpful info, too.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Specifically, their language (seen both in their own names and the names of Toto-Rak and Tam-Tara) is based on the Ainu, an indigenous people of Japan. In-universe the language might have been appropriated from the Duskwight of Gelmorra, but I don't recall where exactly that notion came from. They also started happening after the people that would become the original Gridanian settlers made a pact with the Elementals; it wasn't that the Elementals went 'okay, those guys that're already around, those are our guys'.

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When I was making that post, I was fact-checking what I had written while looking for things I may have missed and found this from encyclopedia:

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Originally Posted by EE1

[The first Padjal] discards his birth name and takes to calling himself I-Ohok-Pota, which he describes as the sound made by the aetheric waves when the elementals speak unto him. Henceforth, Jorin and his children adopt the surname Pota.

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I don't know if that counted as their language or if they just got names that way though.

I wonder how much cultural mixing the Elezen and the Hyur had since they still maintain separate naming conventions and do not mix their races even after the establishment of Gridania. I also wonder what the Elezen think of only Hyur being chosen as Padjal.

It would be neat if the game could revisit and expand on Gridania, Gelmorra, and what all is going on there now and in their history because Limsa and Ul'dah always got the spotlight despite the Twelveswood's setting being more "classical fantasy".

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Welcome to the forums!

Padjal are Hyur native to the Twelveswood (Black Shroud) who are chosen at a very young age by the elementals to be their ambassadors. They typically, but not always descend from specific Gridanian families. They have increased aether sensitivity and can communicate with elementals. A side-effect of their being chosen is represented by growing horns but never growing up past puberty. They tend to live to be several hundred years old though.

According to an interview with Koji Fox (ex-lead English localizer who closely worked with Banri Oda in creating lore), there are about 10 known Padjal in existence at any one time with 1 or 2 hidden in the woods. A new Padjal supposedly arises once in a generation or so but we have 3 roughly around the same age.

Another mystery is that they supposedly have their own language (though this may be attributed to the elementals) and their own myths and culture. Not sure how much of that may be abandoned lore from older versions of the game.

If you continue your WHM questline you will learn more about the Padjal as you go along.

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Thanks, glad to be here! And, that just makes them even more cool. lol thanks for that info, too! I think my favorite thing about the FF games that stole my heart was, in fact, the lore. This little tidbit of something here is just exactly the kind of thing that gets me. It's the small subtle details that many probably wouldn't bat an eyelid at, that ultimately take my noggin for a joggin!

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

When I was making that post, I was fact-checking what I had written while looking for things I may have missed and found this from encyclopedia:


I don't know if that counted as their language or if they just got names that way though.

I wonder how much cultural mixing the Elezen and the Hyur had since they still maintain separate naming conventions and do not mix their races even after the establishment of Gridania. I also wonder what the Elezen think of only Hyur being chosen as Padjal.

It would be neat if the game could revisit and expand on Gridania, Gelmorra, and what all is going on there now and in their history because Limsa and Ul'dah always got the spotlight despite the Twelveswood's setting being more "classical fantasy".

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I want to say it happens but not as often as you think it would. Just look at how some of the Wildwood treat non Wildwood. Correct me if my memory is wrong, but I want to say the padjal child we meet in the Stormblood whm story had an elezen father. So they're an extremely rare case if I'm correct. I file the Padjal under my beings that stop aging in some form umbrella. As I think of them in the same way as D from Vampire Hunter D or Vampire Princess Miyu. Where both grew and aged normally until their teens. Or late teens in in D's case. That even if they look as though they're forever locked in a youthful state doesn't mean that time isn't able to work on them. I'm not even sure if we know what one looks like if they were to die of old age and not you know being killed while exploring the world like A-Towa-Cant was.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Correct me if my memory is wrong, but I want to say the padjal child we meet in the Stormblood whm story had an elezen father.

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I don’t remember this being stated in the story. The encyclopedia refers to her and her ancestors as Hyur and the only comment about her father I can find is her mother saying he’s been dead since the time she decided to flee Gridania with her infant.

I would assume Koji’s comment that “it just doesn’t happen” still stands here, though there is some softening recently and some couples hanging around in the background in different events.


EDIT: After second guessing myself I looked closer at her and she actually does have slightly pointy ears. BUT, so does every other Padjal with visible ears, which is something I never noticed before. I think pointy ears just comes with their territory, not anything to do with an Elezen parent unless every single Padjal with ears we can see happens to have an Elezen parent.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I wonder how much cultural mixing the Elezen and the Hyur had since they still maintain separate naming conventions and do not mix their races even after the establishment of Gridania.

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While you can certainly take it as a worldbuilding thing, this is more of an issue with the ARR approach to naming conventions (and still is a similar issue with some accents, like Lyna) - they were applied to races rather than logical cultures so in every location you get Hyur with the same English names whether they're in Ishgard or Ul'dah -- they don't even mix well with Highlanders even when inhabiting the same areas.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

While you can certainly take it as a worldbuilding thing, this is more of an issue with the ARR approach to naming conventions (and still is a similar issue with some accents, like Lyna) - they were applied to races rather than logical cultures so in every location you get Hyur with the same English names whether they're in Ishgard or Ul'dah -- they don't even mix well with Highlanders even when inhabiting the same areas.

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Honestly, Gridanian hyur and elezen not sharing any names makes the most sense to me out of any place with cross-cultural sharing, because they're both very independent forms of prideful. Even the Wildwood that went with the hyur in going above-ground would've been against cultural mixing like that, while the hyur were definitely going with the settler vibe of 'this is our land now, you're conforming to us'. In contrast, the drahn and galdjent that share naming schemes on the First allied out of both being in a weak spot and having a common enemy.

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Originally Posted by Denishia

Still grumbling about the missed opportunity for the jackalope joke with Male Vieras and how much I want one antler headpiece and one M!Viera NPC in North Tural wearing it.

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I love the jackalope take on Viera so much that until the game looks me in the eye and tells me directly that Viera who live as Woodwarders don't develop antlers I simply will not perceive antlerless Woodwarders or will take them as being too young to have developed them.

I really wish we could get some proper antler head gear, though, I have a retainer planned on an alt who needs to look like a twelve-point buck at a distance.

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Originally Posted by Rudje

I really wish we could get some proper antler head gear, though, I have a retainer planned on an alt who needs to look like a twelve-point buck at a distance.

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A neat idea would be to add some new rewards to old achievement FATEs and then they could give us a Coeurlregina antler headpiece as the reward you can get for trading in antlers.

In general I really wish they would add some "serious" glamour rewards to the world FATEs instead of only rewarding you with ugly novelty gear.