Graphical Update: One Major Goal Missed

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Early Base Covering :P
⚠️ "Just fantasia." - Fantasia will not fix these things. Also, some of the new issues are blanket across all race/gender/option combos and aren't avoidable according to the benchmark.

⚠️ "Just play a different race." - I do! On alts! This doesn't help the issues at hand, however.

⚠️ "Get used to it." - They have asked for feedback about the changes. I'm gonna provide some feedback, and I hope it reaches where it needs to go, and also encourages other folks to chime in. Respectfully.

⚠️ "I like the changes." - I'm genuinely happy for you. I would also like to continue to be happy with characters I have spent ten years playing, role-playing, and adventuring as!

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I want to be clear that I 100% appreciate the work that has gone into the graphical update. It's clear that care has been taken to bring some aspects of our characters up to a more modern feel.

That said, part of the original stated goal that was to preserve the 'spirit' and feel of the characters we've come to love - some for over 10 years. And that's the point that this thread is focused on. I'm using my own characters for examples; others are welcome & encouraged to include their own characters and examples in the replies!

That goal has been largely missed for more people than it has been met - myself included.

One of the overarching reasons I say this has to do with the odd 'pleasantness' brush taken to many of the faces. I tend to go for the most 'neutral' or Resting AHEM Face options I can - so when I found that my RBF faves suddenly look like they've been hit by a idle-smile touch up filter.. I'm going to be honest, I'm disappointed.

https://i.imgur.com/vewP2vV.png
Face 2 female Miqo'te suddenly looks like she's idly chipper when she's been perfectly crabby and scowling for ten years. I liked her before. Another post (HERE) has a prime example of what I mean about the blanket 'pleasantness' brush being used. Please let some of the Miqo'te faces remain wild/fierce. We don't all want to be 'pretty'. Additionally, the eyebrow thinning does not feel good.

https://i.imgur.com/c5UVW7b.png
I don't love that my Face 1 Hellsguard Roegadyn has a jaw/chin reduction and has had the Soot Nose made almost invisible. (The reduction may be on other faces, too, but I have not checked).

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https://i.imgur.com/nyS7MGw.png
I do not love that my Face 2 Sea Wolf Roegadyn no longer looks like she's passively thinking the word 'murder' at all times. Her scowl was perfect - it's why I chose it. Please put it back.

https://i.imgur.com/BusOSiC.png
The Raen Au Ra? The one that I tried (really hard) to NOT make look dead-eyed? REALLY does not look okay now.

I also want to throw my support behind the numerous threads bringing up the eye-color and lighting looking dull/dim/lifeless now. The bright eyes and even pastel pupils for some of the faces were awesome as they were, and now they're gone and it's something I definitely consider a downgrade. Same with the overall eyebrow taming being done to multiple faces.

All in all, if there's one comment I want to make about the current state of female faces options for several races, it's this:

Please do not force changes that make female faces all 'prettier' or 'pleasant' by default. Let us have the choice to pick neutral or 'unfriendly' idle expressions. Let us be outside of conventional beauty standards (as much as that's even an option in an MMO) - especially in the absence of more body type options.

I want to love the graphical updates because I know that they CAN be good, they just do not feel like they're there yet.

I genuinely like how my character came out myself, but I can see the huge issues presented here and how drastically different the appearances are and that's a major bummer for people who've been playing for years and want their character to remain the same through the changes. I think it's totally fair to ask Square, who are asking for feedback, to maybe tweak the faces some more so they keep to the spirit of the originals.

Thank you for putting up this thread!
You really hit the nail on the head for the real problem a lot of these changes are causing - missing the mark entirely on preserving the spirit/personality for a lot of people's characters.I think a lot of the more elevated emotional response is also born from the fact that every live letter we were constantly reassured that things are not going to be drastically changed and that spirit would have special care taken for it and yet here we are.
To compound it even further these are changes brought to a community who is more invested in their character , than frankly any other MMORPG community I've ever been apart of. Every single person who's distraught is a person who's spent hundreds ,if not thousands of hours, looking at that face in cutscenes, screenshots, as a reference while drawing them or just idling while waiting for the raid timer. So every small detail is exceptionally scrutinized and how much all of them contribute to a character's personality. And quite frankly , I don't understand why some people are being straight up heartless towards those expressing their sadness over losing things like that and trying to fight for it by providing feedback.
Many of the changes feel like they are done with disregard for the original stylistic choices made for certain features to be what they are - plumper or more defined lips being flattened (rip viera lips) ,noses becoming shorter or looking smaller because the nostrils are more smoothened out or the philtrums looking changed ,eye shapes changing due to make up changes or new eyelash extensions - the list goes on and for whoever is interested there's already plenty of threads about every single one. It doesn't feel like a "graphical update" more than it feels like a weird personal stylistic choice of whoever made the change. Beauty is in the of the beholder and a lot of people who liked their more sharp or angular Au'ra might not be ok with seeing theirs literally get sanded down and more smooth , just as one example. I very much understand some of these things can be due to lighting changes but most certainly not all of them.

The graphical updates for the clothes and the world as a whole look lovely and I genuinely appreciate the effort and care that went into those , and for some it was sorely needed! But it really feels like they fumbled the bag when it comes to characters for people who were just not looking for that instagram filter look. I think the suggestion I've seen on other threads of just releasing the character creator as it is earlier could've alleviated some of these problems or at the very least have given us reason to voice earlier to just add new options that we can use instead of completely sacrificing old ones.

Here's to hoping that they address at least some of the feedback!

Feedback is good and all.
But I've seen far too often when feedback isn't adressed or simply turned down and people still won't accept it and keeps on complaining.

And that some like the changes is good.
But then it opens up the question on which side to pick?
Should they move forward, stick with the changes and those who like it will be happy.
Or should they stay, reverse it so that those who don't like the changes can stay happy?

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Originally Posted by Nalukai

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One of the overarching reasons I say this has to do with the odd 'pleasantness' brush taken to many of the faces. I tend to go for the most 'neutral' or Resting AHEM Face options I can - so when I found that my RBF faves suddenly look like they've been hit by a idle-smile touch up filter.. I'm going to be honest, I'm disappointed.

Face 2 female Miqo'te suddenly looks like she's idly chipper when she's been perfectly crabby and scowling for ten years. I liked her before. Another post (HERE) has a prime example of what I mean about the blanket 'pleasantness' brush being used. Please let some of the Miqo'te faces remain wild/fierce. We don't all want to be 'pretty'. Additionally, the eyebrow thinning does not feel good.

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My Miqo'te has those eyes, too, and I specifically chose them because it makes her look a tiny bit more fierce instead of a cutesy catgirl. I don't hate the new look, but I would miss the old one. Please keep those eyes the way they were. I don't want to look nicer or cuter or prettier, I want to look like I'm about to attack if you look at me the wrong way.

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Originally Posted by Nalukai

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I don't love that my Face 1 Hellsguard Roegadyn has a jaw/chin reduction and has had the Soot Nose made almost invisible. (The reduction may be on other faces, too, but I have not checked).

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I have the same issue with the Hellsguard soot nose too, on the most-used "diamond face" (I think preset 2?). It's such a charming feature. Worst of all, Hellsguard males don't have a lighter soot nose, which makes it feel ever so slightly worse. In a perfect world, I'd like a toggle for a lighter mark, it's too cute to see taken away

The new versions look good to me. Some of the issues you are pointing out are related to the model structure changes, which were done to remove obvious polygons because they were limited in how many they could use under the original graphic criteria they set.

I will say that when I saw the male Hyur faces they looked really strange, except for the WoL ones.

Thank you for taking the time to every person that gives feedback, I believe we all apreciate the game regardless, and just wish for the most agreeable upcoming and to be heard.
I just don't understand why people fight others on their feedback and opinions on changes on their own characters. Please don't do that. If I say 'I don't like apples' what's the point on reply 'I think apples are delicious'.

Upgrading regarding textures and polygons is understandable, but it's not the issue.
Also we are all aware that is a difficult to make everyone 100% happy at some point, but there have been major changes that weren't expected or feel not necessary.

These specifically:
-Eyebrows thickness and color (some darker, some lighter)
-Pupils made wider (Au'Ra specifically)
-Lips made texture-less, one plain color, lose shine, change of shape (Hyur, Lalafell and Viera the most affected). Lipstick colors darker.
-Eyelashes thickness very increased on female characters (most races)
-Nose shapes changed, some bigger, some thinner
-Eye shape changed, also bigger eyes in most cases (also for male characters)
-Roegadyn nose 'shadow' or soot
-Lalafell nose shadow
(I'm sorry if I missed some, I can't keep pace on all posts)

This is not because textures or polygons or light, these are artistic deliberate changes, so I hope that can become a toggle option, an extra feature. Some people may like them, but it's reasonable that some don't. The point is a lot of characters have changed drastically and people is upset about it rightfully.

I believe the Benchmark should have launched BEFORE Dawntrail preorder. This reaction has been worldwide and multy language, so I hope it will be adressed eventually. If were small things, there wouldn't have been such a massive reaction.


...
I also provided some screenshots here and there (too many topics already), in order not to upload them again, I will leave a link to the public folder just in case:

https://ibb.co/album/Y40WWf

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Originally Posted by 12Biscuits

I have the same issue with the Hellsguard soot nose too, on the most-used "diamond face" (I think preset 2?). It's such a charming feature. Worst of all, Hellsguard males don't have a lighter soot nose, which makes it feel ever so slightly worse. In a perfect world, I'd like a toggle for a lighter mark, it's too cute to see taken away

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A toggle would honestly be a great solution for the soot nose, I think!

male elezen also had pretty big changes to lip shape! the fullest lip options were made thinner (which is unfortunate, there's not many full options to begin with for them at all)

edit: to add on, I feel like male elezen really suffered in the "maintaining the original feel of the characters" department in part because they were such an angular race to begin with. adding more polygons without compensating for that (i.e., adding textures that include suggestions of cheekbones, or avoiding that thin white line nose highlight that homogenizes all nose shapes) really did some damage to what have been recognizable elezen features for a long while.

this goal was definitely missed if I've seen some people voice "if I had started playing in dawntrail, I would probably not pick the same race for my player character because the things that drew me to them to start with are no longer present with this update" ):

I agree. The spirit and feel of my character has absolutely not been preserved. The charm point of my character, for me, has always been the relaxed, gentle eyes. With the current changes to eyelashes and eye colors, that doesn't exist anymore. And no amount of fantasia can bring it back, because all the eyes are like this now.

https://i.imgur.com/isztwft.jpg

I don't feel that the spirit and feeling of my character were preserved at all. Her serious and capable look is more dead and brainless, with a little bit of doll, none of which I was looking for when I made my character.

I think they should either revert the changes and take them back to the drawing board for 7.XX or 8.0, or add additional char gen options and make some edits so that chars can look more representative of their current look while having the shapes of jaws, eyes, and lips shown in the benchmark if they're particularly intent on keeping them around.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...081&height=454

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...081&height=453

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...081&height=527