7.0 Graphic Update - Male Highlander Suggestion

(I indeed have bias towards male Highlander and how my character looks right now. I would not deny that)

Thank you for the benchmark that not only gauge capability of our PC, but also the theoretical look of our character in the future.
I definitely had fun trying to see around our character model in the new environment.

During benchmark character creation I played with male Highlander, face template 2 (Hildibrand!), eyebrows 3, eyes 6, nose 6, mouth 4, jaw 2.

○ What I think good improvement from pre-Dawntrail version
1) The skin and the pores are so clear to see. So far satisfied since it has more detail that previous version.

2) The ears are behaving like in real life, which is slightly translucent when light pass through.



△ What I think need improvement or rather backtracking to pre-Dawntrail
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...a48e4a8a20f4d&
1) What apparent to me instantly was how high the eyebrow paint placement is. Apparently this is wide-player issue and not only male Highlander specific.
Please consider moving the face paint back to the original place. (left: live version, right: benchmark)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...7fe88a2e8f73e&
2) It looks like the waterline on the eye is blackened with eyeliner. But it seems to be light dependend since eye on the right side has lighter waterline.
I would suggest lessening the eyeliner on that, if possible.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...6c20e6d423566&
3) The eyelashes hide too much the eyeball (and pupil and iris). As of now it is harder to read expression from the eyes, in combination with lack of light on the eye.
Suggestion would be to:
a) revert the eyelashes to the current version;
b) making clear definition between iris and pupil; and/or
c) adding back the static light to the eye.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...8ce5d049c4878&
4) This is also the part of the face where I notice instantly. In current live version, the cheek has less fold definition, giving it more youthful look.
In benchmark version however, the definition is more prominent, and with the wrinkled eyebrow and sunken eye combined makes the face looking older.
Please consider lessening the definition on the cheek to the live version of the game.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...e26e45ea922fa&
To further drive the point, when the cheek is covered with mutton chops, character looks younger in comparison to the bare face.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...fd9a16a067425&
EDIT: And to even further showing, here is comparison picture with face painted to only show the contrast. Please consider smoothen that part out!


5) Nose part will be divided in two feedback:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...f37e5c2c40303&
a) The nose bridge (the long vertical part of the nose) on benchmark version looks straighter and wider than the current live version.
Personally I picked nose #6 because there is defined curve between the base to the tip of the nose and it is noticeably slimmer than the other option.
Please add back the curvature.
b) The dome part of the nostril on benchmark version has more defined line in comparison to the live version.
It would be nice if the definition is lessened, similar to problem at 4) which gives older impression.

Final words:
All in all my character looks aged so much with the benchmark version, which is not something I am looking forward.

Also please consider adding eyebrows to male Highlander, if the eyebrow face paint won't be fixed.
It is actually rather common demand, and look at all the Highlanders avatar they have. Almost all put facepaint eyebrow anyway.
There is consideration that support this idea although lore states that male Highlander shave their eyebrow to intimidate their opponent:

a) not every male Highlander is from Ala Mhigo, thus different culture have different practice, and thus shaving eyebrow practice is not universal.

b) certain character from Endwalker which uses male Highlander model already has eyebrows, which means it is possible for the player if the problem is technology wise.

c) letting male Highlanders having actual eyebrows open up the face paint slot for something else they can use and customize i.e. eyeshadows, blushes, war paint, Halloween, etc.
This is especially important when character can only have single face paint.

d) attracting possible player that are repulsed by the idea of lack of eyebrows.

Personally, I would approach the solution by adding eyebrows to the already existing eyebrow face paint.
Reason being, most male Highlanders that already wearing painted eyebrows should be already fine with the placement and the width of the theoretical eyebrows.
It looks like good start before tweaking furthermore.

Thank you for reading this long message. Obviously some of these suggestion won't get through but atleast it is something to be considered,
especially the new graphic update affects lots of people who already bonded with their character through MSQs.

For the other, feel free to add more suggestion on other face since I have not scrutinized it as much as Face template #2.

Finally got the face model from live server in the benchmark environment (thanks Hildy! Always to the rescue!)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...f85c757cc0e5a&
I cannot make it more clearer than this: new male Highlander face template #2 looks way older than live version.
While it might has to do with artistic direction, please still consider smoothing out the line and bumps on the cheek and brow ridge to more similar to the live version.

As of now male Highlander have four face template: 1 and 3 I would consider on the older spectrum, while the 2 and 4 on the younger spectrum.
I would like to keep the youthful look of my character like Hildibrand gives.

Thanks for this post, very respectfully and fairly put, and I agree on all points, particularly with the eyebrows and contouring of the face. I also think there's less shading above the eye and below the brow that is contributing to the unnatural appearance of the brow face paint.

Here's mine, and I'm a bit frustrated with the the outcome. I know I can use a fantasia, but I would prefer to keep my WOL's same face.

https://i.ibb.co/6RM4PnR/DT-before-and-after.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kileen

Thanks for this post, very respectfully and fairly put, and I agree on all points, particularly with the eyebrows and contouring of the face. I also think there's less shading above the eye and below the brow that is contributing to the unnatural appearance of the brow face paint.

Here's mine, and I'm a bit frustrated with the the outcome. I know I can use a fantasia, but I would prefer to keep my WOL's same face.

https://i.ibb.co/6RM4PnR/DT-before-and-after.jpg

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I saw your post on Reddit, and I am glad you posted it here, because it's definitely the most blatant example of issues with eyebrow face paint placement with the new graphics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kileen

Thanks for this post, very respectfully and fairly put, and I agree on all points, particularly with the eyebrows and contouring of the face. I also think there's less shading above the eye and below the brow that is contributing to the unnatural appearance of the brow face paint.

Here's mine, and I'm a bit frustrated with the the outcome. I know I can use a fantasia, but I would prefer to keep my WOL's same face.

https://i.ibb.co/6RM4PnR/DT-before-and-after.jpg

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Thank you for the contribution. I personally suspect (and take this with fat grain of salt since I have no experience with 3D) the problem is that the team decide to be less dependent on shading and instead on the interaction between environmental lighting and face shape.
So when faced with less favorable lighting, the face show less definition. My character for example in favorable lighting seems to be much better on benchmark.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...9518299cc7117&
And yeah. From the image it is apparent that there are less shading as well on the below-browridge-above-eye area on benchmark version.
If I need to make opinion on that, I do like the live version more since it gives this hunter's eye vibe which I chose in the first place.
The benchmark version is also nice, but the vibe is different--it gives me friendlier vibe. I am getting used to it, tho!

Related to that: apparently someone suspect that the problem is that the skin is too translucent that it washes out all the shading/details from the face.
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...y-is-overtuned

Thanks for this. I had tried attaching pictures in my original post regarding the botched eyebrows, but it wasn't working lol.

And another:

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/d2Gk8mJ/DT-Before-and-After-2-MH.jpg[/IMG]

It does feel like his 'Superman' jaw got nerfed a bit.

Sorry, this is just a cry from the heart. This is terrible...!
https://ibb.org.ru/1/IJkes0
https://ibb.org.ru/1/IJkyoK
Please do something about this, there is nothing left of my character except his nickname..!
https://ibb.org.ru/1/IJkes0
https://ibb.org.ru/1/IJkyoK

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kileen

And another:

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/d2Gk8mJ/DT-Before-and-After-2-MH.jpg[/IMG]

It does feel like his 'Superman' jaw got nerfed a bit.

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I feel like I get where you mean it. Personally the jaws are less offending to me, but anyway I made another comparison.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...54942fad0527d&
Looks like the live version has sharper edge and deeper shadow that gives more prominent jaw perception,
while the benchmark version has more rounded edge perception. Thus if I were to make outline acccording to what I perceive, I think it is like this:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...13d67762d3f71&
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong!
Form wise I think both jaws from before and after is almost identical if not exact the same apart from the shading.
Which honestly if need to be boiled down many of the problem IMO lies on shading and lighting direction the developer have chosen.
(also apparent on the eye area as well, less shading on the upper eye region on benchmark version)
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...fe56423516255&

https://i.imgur.com/7r0khk0.jpg

I'm really disappointed with the way the update impacted my character. I honestly feel like the older visuals (left) look much better than the newer ones (right). All the life is gone from my character's eyes. The older hair seemed much more detailed and layered, and the two color tones blended together much better with the original art. The lip shape has changed and become larger (particularly the upper lip), and the painted on eyebrows have moved to a higher location on the forehead. The chin has been shortened. The ridge of the nose has been widened. The skin tone has changed.

The quality of the lighting seems to also have taken a hit in the update as that's the same settings/angle/location/time in both captures.

Personally I'm not a fan of sharpening up the detail on the textures for the clothing without updating the model as well, as it just highlights the low-poly nature of it even more.

I really wish you were giving us the option to use the older art assets, although I doubt that's practical. I prefer that you reduce the instances of dramatic difference, as some faces (like Highlanders) were hit very hard by the update. I went from being excited about this update to dreading it the moment I saw how my character from the last 10 years has turned out. I don't recognize the character I'm looking at any longer.

Okay, I had my doubt on my post #4 since it seems the Hildibrand picture I retrieve (not from my benchmark) seemed to have updated eyes. So just incase I ran another benchmark with both Hildies, so variable is as low as possible (face type, environment, lighting, picture quality, frame).

I compare between two, and to make it easier turning it into GIF. Actually it is easier to tell the difference now on male Highlander face #2.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...cf318f8079810&

There will be same rehash and feedback of the face, but I hope through the GIF it illustrates easier!
I will divide more into 3 parts: 1) brow ridge, 2) nose, 3) cheekbones

1) Brow Ridge
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1011f6d4cd2af&
I mark up the area with red marker to illustrate what I perceive.
The benchmark version feels to me has lighter brow ridge in comparison to the live version, which might be from texture itself?
It translates to more prominent brow ridge but because it is under shadow, it just looks too funny. Please consider lessen the highlight on the brow ridge.

Also the live version retains some more shading on the side of the outer eye corner.
On the perceived image it is shown through sharper turn on live version in comparison to more rounded turn on benchmark version.
I am not sure how the developer's creative direction on that, but if possible I would like to keep that shading as well on benchmark version.

And again, the area between brow ridge shows lots of wrinkles, and now the perpetual frowning expression is not only texture-wise.
Personally I do not like it and would hope it is not as prominent (form-wise, smoothen out so not to be as prominent like benchmark version but not as formless like the live version--middle road)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...07d634eb4362a&
(Side note, and this is not serious at all: looks like trace of vengeful ghost of all the shaved eyebrows finally shows on benchmark version)

2) Nose
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...01a10e7abd4a2&
Now I am sure the reason the nose looking rather bigger on benchmark is because it loses the slight curvature on the nosebridge.
The curvature from live version should be retained to retain its uniqueness IMO
The nostril wings are also rounder and not as boxy. I would like to retain the boxiness, but arguably it might be just because more polygon on the benchmark version.

3) Cheekbones
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...4d4e2dd977e02&
So that is my perception when I saw the picture of both.
The live version has more prominent cheekbones, thus the cheek is mostly shaped by the cheekbones.
The benchmark version has more prominent muscle. Thus the shape of the cheek is unsurprisingly not the same.
I personally find the live version more aesthetically pleasing and would like to once more bring the cheekbones as the prominent factor.


Thank you for reading this feedback. Keep up the good work for this benchmark update!

Or, here's an idea...
Give us an eyebrow option please. Not just paint ;_;

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Valcarde

Or, here's an idea...
Give us an eyebrow option please. Not just paint ;_;

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Not the first time, neither will it be the last demand. Eyebrows are such important feature that honestly I question myself if I ever found someone who would not agree to eyebrows.
And don't get me started on beard choices. Would it kill them to let us have brows and 'stache option already? It won't break the game more than now. And pretty sure it won't scare people more than now when we already lacking one.

I posted this in another thread but I figured it'd be smart to post here too for visibility.

There is a visible texture seam for the bald hairstyle between the face and the head, and the scalp appears to not have been upscaled, as it has a low-poly model which is pretty jarring when put next to the new high-poly ears, for example.

https://imgur.com/dOHbEl4

This may hopefully be addressed in their upcoming fixes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Priddy

There is a visible texture seam for the bald hairstyle between the face and the head, and the scalp appears to not have been upscaled, as it has a low-poly model which is pretty jarring when put next to the new high-poly ears, for example.

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Made a thread about it here:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-Shadow-glitch

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SKLC

Basically there's a really severe cut into where the "baldness" begins. That, and the skin texture is way too smooth compared to the rest of the face. No pores, blemishes, or anything else that's "new". It looks really off and it's especially prominent and noticeable on darker skin.

It almost looks like I'm wearing a swim cap. :p

I've made an album:
https://imgur.com/a/0VszoCt

Here's some isolated shots:
https://i.imgur.com/l5cIofZ.png
https://i.imgur.com/G6H4tsd.png
https://i.imgur.com/TlWCAEM.png

Additionally, they behave weird with certain lighting (VIDEO):
https://youtu.be/AWbJljtrxDQ

Hope this will be fixed by release. Now if they had more black hairstyles in this game I'd probably be like whatever, but there aren't many options, and the ones that are there are just sad. (Oh yay an afro... :()

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There's a link inside to a japanese post on it so make sure to upvote for more visibility!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SKLC

Made a thread about it here:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-Shadow-glitch


There's a link inside to a japanese post on it so make sure to upvote for more visibility!

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Awesome, thanks. I imagine this will probably be fixed in the next update to the benchmark, as they mentioned some upscaled textures didn't get ported over properly, and this seems like that issue. I upvoted that post, thanks again for the heads up.

I feel the pain bro. Still no eyebrows after 10 years. I thought they upgrade a little the variety for race but nope. The good news is male roe seem looking good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Priddy

Awesome, thanks. I imagine this will probably be fixed in the next update to the benchmark, as they mentioned some upscaled textures didn't get ported over properly, and this seems like that issue. I upvoted that post, thanks again for the heads up.

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Yes, I'm optimistic about them fixing it by release at least, given the most recent post. Still, it doesn't hurt to surface problems just in case they miss anything.