Graphical update/Benchmark feedback - Female midlander face 4

I feel like face 4 5 female midlander has changed too much, and for the worse. The structure of the face is now much more round, the expression is much more serious too. The inferior eyelids have much more makeup now, the eyes themselves are wider, the lips have less volume and texture, the eyebrows (one of the features that stands out the most for face 4 5) are now much less defined.

All the changes are incredibly subtle, but overall I feel like the identity of my character is lost. Biggest culprit for me are the rounder face though and the wider eyes.

Current first, then benchmark:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...b2cc7025fba80&https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...33664f31888ca&

Anyone else mourning their middie?

EDIT: As someone has pointed out, this is face 5 and not face 4.

Personally, I like the change to my Midlander. I wasn't sure in some zones of the character creator but that was largely the lighting. The shadows seem absent entirely in the character creator making things look flat, but in the benchmark it looked much better. My Viera on the other hand....

Look like you lost some texture in the lips while my Miqo'te gained some.

Those eyes are a very different shape.

this one too, they just all are starting to look more childlike.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

this one too, they just all are starting to look more childlike.

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I can't even disagree with you on this one, fully just de-aged 10 years.

That is face 5 showing there ^O^

I play as a Midlander mostly and often swap between the faces. I like the changes they make my character less cartoon like which is what they did to my old character from 1.0 and I never played that face ever since. I was gutted but they did nothing as it was for a ARR she ported and I hated it.
I do like this my Midlander looks older as I know what features to choose for that. The lips though are a bit of a issue as I liked the gloss but now it seems they look flat and most of the colours look browny/beige.

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Originally Posted by Luluna

That is face 5 showing there ^O^

I play as a Midlander mostly and often swap between the faces. I like the changes they make my character less cartoon like which is what they did to my old character from 1.0 and I never played that face ever since. I was gutted but they did nothing as it was for a ARR she ported and I hated it.
I do like this my Midlander looks older as I know what features to choose for that. The lips though are a bit of a issue as I liked the gloss but now it seems they look flat and most of the colours look browny/beige.

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Thanks for pointing it out! I edited the post to make it clear. Not sure if I can edit the thread's title though :/

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Originally Posted by ValG

Thanks for pointing it out! I edited the post to make it clear. Not sure if I can edit the thread's title though :/

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aww its ok It doesn't really matter ^O^

I am still having a play around in the benchmark trying to see if I can get better colour on her lips. I am on my old laptop atm because I play PS5 so I will prob spend hours fixing my character in release of the expac lol.

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Originally Posted by ValG

I feel like face 4 5 female midlander has changed too much, and for the worse. The structure of the face is now much more round, the expression is much more serious too. The inferior eyelids have much more makeup now, the eyes themselves are wider, the lips have less volume and texture, the eyebrows (one of the features that stands out the most for face 4 5) are now much less defined.

All the changes are incredibly subtle, but overall I feel like the identity of my character is lost. Biggest culprit for me are the rounder face though and the wider eyes.

Current first, then benchmark:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...b2cc7025fba80&https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...33664f31888ca&

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I play fem Viera (with face 2) and considering how I felt regarding the lip changes on that model, I absolutely feel for you. :( This is a dramatic difference, and not for the better. We did not ask for facial features to be changed in this manner. If they wanted to spruce things up, they could've added these new lips as more options, instead of taking away the things we've known and loved for years. :(

This midlander used to have a unique pair of lips, I love how juicy they look, that they have a very unique shape and shade to them, and that you can see the lip lines. I really hope they bring them back. :(

The lips for me is one of the biggest things I have noticed. The lack of pinks and reds and like you say the juicy full mouth has gone :( I do like some of the changes though like the ears not being pixelated and some of the eyes look smoother. And that hairstyle makes her look she has got cauliflower ears lol

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

I can't even disagree with you on this one, fully just de-aged 10 years.

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Yeah... totally. Benchmark version looks pre-teen.

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Originally Posted by Luluna

The lips for me is one of the biggest things I have noticed. The lack of pinks and reds and like you say the juicy full mouth has gone :( I do like some of the changes though like the ears not being pixelated and some of the eyes look smoother. And that hairstyle makes her look she has got cauliflower ears lol

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Yeah, the clipping of the ears is quite bad but to be fair it was there before the update... Personally I don't mind it that much (didn't even noticed it until now actually).

I'm not sure if I like the changes either. Facial features look more broader in shape than usual - cheeks and jaws look rounder, nose bridge is wider, lips are puffier. Something just looks off about the new faces and I'm not really a fan of it.

It's really noticeable on mine. The expression has significantly changed.

https://i.imgur.com/rLoOkF6.jpeg

Eyes look off. Top half is very dark and the edges seem to have more makeup. In the current game, the entire eye is bright and clear and the bottom edge of the eye is free of that black mascara.
The lips that were supposed to be flat became rounder. Also the lips became very blurry.
Face looks a little rounder but it might be a lighting issue.

Watched the updated model in motion in the benchmark, which supposedly has better lighting and I'm still not a fan.

Also OP, is it possible for you to change the title from face 4 to face 5 by going to 'Go Advanced' in the post settings? I feel like it could cause your feedback to be missed if they're collating thread titles for example. It also helps people who have similar issues find this thread.

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Originally Posted by Ibbers

It's really noticeable on mine. The expression has significantly changed.

https://i.imgur.com/rLoOkF6.jpeg

Eyes look off. Top half is very dark and the edges seem to have more makeup. In the current game, the entire eye is bright and clear and the bottom edge of the eye is free of that black mascara.
The lips that were supposed to be flat became rounder. Also the lips became very blurry.
Face looks a little rounder but it might be a lighting issue.

Watched the updated model in motion in the benchmark, which supposedly has better lighting and I'm still not a fan.

Also OP, is it possible for you to change the title from face 4 to face 5 by going to 'Go Advanced' in the post settings? I feel like it could cause your feedback to be missed if they're collating thread titles for example. It also helps people who have similar issues find this thread.

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Done! Thanks for the suggestion, I missed the option when I checked before.

Also, completely different expression now, way more sad...

Edit: for some reason the change in the title is only reflected on my original post...

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Originally Posted by ValG

Done! Thanks for the suggestion, I missed the option when I checked before.

Also, completely different expression now, way more sad...

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Hmm seems like the thread title didn't change after all. I guess we'd need a mod to come down and change it for us?

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Originally Posted by Ibbers

It's really noticeable on mine. The expression has significantly changed.

https://i.imgur.com/rLoOkF6.jpeg

Eyes look off. Top half is very dark and the edges seem to have more makeup. In the current game, the entire eye is bright and clear and the bottom edge of the eye is free of that black mascara.
The lips that were supposed to be flat became rounder. Also the lips became very blurry.
Face looks a little rounder but it might be a lighting issue.

Watched the updated model in motion in the benchmark, which supposedly has better lighting and I'm still not a fan.

Also OP, is it possible for you to change the title from face 4 to face 5 by going to 'Go Advanced' in the post settings? I feel like it could cause your feedback to be missed if they're collating thread titles for example. It also helps people who have similar issues find this thread.

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I am sorry, but with the exception of the lips, I see vast improvements here. Improved hair texture and facial shadows. Ears have more detail and don't look pinned on. The face is rounder and more feminine. Your face does appear sadder, and this might be due to a slightly different eye shape and lip shape. I can understand your issues here.

Also of note the details on the camise are improved as well. The buckles look more metallic and have better definition. I can also clearly see the lace holes on the sleeves and corset. The Midlander also has a more hourglass shape to her and has apparently received a breast lift to boot.

If this is what I can expect with my own Midlander, I will be quite happy. Especially knowing that the aetherial blue background is one of the worst to view your characters in comparison to the actual game.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

The face is rounder and more feminine.

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This is the problem. If they wanted to add a more round/feminine face, they should have added a new middy face instead of changing the old one.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I am sorry, but with the exception of the lips, I see vast improvements here. Improved hair texture and facial shadows. Ears have more detail and don't look pinned on. The face is rounder and more feminine. Your face does appear sadder, and this might be due to a slightly different eye shape and lip shape. I can understand your issues here.

Also of note the details on the camise are improved as well. The buckles look more metallic and have better definition. I can also clearly see the lace holes on the sleeves and corset. The Midlander also has a more hourglass shape to her and has apparently received a breast lift to boot.

If this is what I can expect with my own Midlander, I will be quite happy. Especially knowing that the aetherial blue background is one of the worst to view your characters in comparison to the actual game.

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I don't deny that there are graphical improvements here and there, but you have to understand that people have a certain perspective of their character (they are the ones who made the character after all), and that's the most important thing to them. It's not exactly rocks or flowers or other inanimate objects we're talking about here.

I feel like I can speak for many people when I say that preserving the feeling or vibe of their character is far more important, and it seems like a rather unpalatable thing to give up in exchange for slightly less pixelated hair strands or somewhat softer face shadows. We're not the developers, so we don't know how easy or hard it is to preserve our characters' facial features while still improving details, but it's not unreasonable to give them feedback to ask if they could try to make them look more similar. If it's too difficult or time-consuming, no harm no foul to the developers, but hey, at least we asked right?

Also just to be clear, I don't have a problem with the body shape or the clothes. It's just the facial features. And I'm not sure if you read my post in full, but as I've said, I've actually ran the benchmark in full to observe my character and the facial features were still off.

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Originally Posted by Ibbers

I don't deny that there are graphical improvements here and there, but you have to understand that people have a certain perspective of their character (they are the ones who made the character after all), and that's the most important thing to them. It's not exactly rocks or flowers or other inanimate objects we're talking about here.

I feel like I can speak for many people when I say that preserving the feeling o vibe of their character is far more important, and it seems like a rather unpalatable thing to give up in exchange for slightly less pixelated hair strands or somewhat softer face shadows. We're not the developers, so we don't know how easy or hard it is to preserve our characters' facial features while still improving details, but it's not unreasonable to give them feedback to ask if they could try to make them look more similar. If it's too difficult or time-consuming, no harm no foul to the developers, but hey, at least we asked right?

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I wholeheartedly agree with you. However, I don't see such drastic changes in the comparison pics you've provided to warrant that kind of impact. If you did not post a side by side with the differences pointed out, and instead showed me two separate images of your character, I could still tell it is her from one to the next.

Now if the changes were along the lines of this magnitude...

https://i.imgur.com/Np5r3kQ.jpeg

... I would have nothing but sympathy. This is pure, unadulterated, uglification. This is what I have been looking for with the majority of complaints about the graphical update, or what appears to me, to not be an improvement at all. I have definitely seen some of the latter where the current version looks better than the Benchmark. This is especially true with the male avatars.

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Also just to be clear, I don't have a problem with the body shape or the clothes. It's just the facial features. And I'm not sure if you read my post in full, but as I've said, I've actually ran the benchmark in full to observe my character and the facial features were still off.

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Yes, I always read the posts of people I respond to in full. I do offer my condolences if you are not happy with the update. However, I find your Middy to be very beautiful in both versions. You've done quite well with the options given to you.

There is too much eyeliner now by default, especially on the bottom eyelid. I think that every makeup related change should be completely optional, like how they made Au'ra limbal rings an option now.

Now, when I look at my face 5 character, I get the impression that she spends a lot of time in the morning applying her makeup to go for a certain look. This is not how my character is supposed to be at all! I understand that some people consider Face 5 to be the "caked up" midlander face, but with how limited our customization options are, I think the devs need to realize that some people choose a certain face for the proportions alone. I think whatever designer did this update took too many artistic liberties, and again this could be addressed by making it an option.

Current retail:
https://i.imgur.com/C9Dsz4q.png

Benchmark:
https://i.imgur.com/r0QNEnI.png

I also miss the slightly open mouth. It was quirky.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I wholeheartedly agree with you. However, I don't see such drastic changes in the comparison pics you've provided to warrant that kind of impact. If you did not post a side by side with the differences pointed out, and instead showed me two separate images of your character, I could still tell it is her from one to the next.

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I would be hard pressed to tell the differences with unfamiliar faces too.

The thing is that these faces are what their creators have been looking at for years. For someone who's used to the seeing the same face regularly for years, subtle changes throw the perception of the character off, to say nothing of a combination of changes that alter the expression. I don't think the examples you give are analogous to the issue people are having. People have an emotional attachment to a character look that they created themselves and they spend far more time with the character than you or any other person. So their reaction to changes to their own character is going to be much sharper than other people and that's perfectly normal. 'Well I don't see the difference!' is going to be a given if you aren't the person who plays with that character every day.

It's not a question of beauty (at least for me, it looks like it might be the case for others), I find that many other players have beautiful characters, but at the end of the day I still wouldn't play as those characters. I hope that makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Ibbers

I don't think the examples you give are analogous to the issue people are having. People have an emotional attachment to a character look that they created themselves and they spend far more time with the character than you or any other person.

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I play the game too. I have for nearly ten years now. The strong emotional attachment to one's character is not a foreign concept to me. That is a huge reason why I will not use fantasias on my avatar even to change her eye color (I've been tempted to do so to make them blue instead of purple, but I just can't do it). This is also a reason why I tend to not favor certain pieces of gear that alter the choices I made to my character in the custom creator, but I still may use them from time to time because they are temporary.

What I am telling you is that based off of the images you have provided, these kind of changes would not make me feel the way you do. I am talking specifically to my own avatar. The only thing that is really going to do that are drastic changes that would make her not even look like the same character. That is what I would take issue with.

The other thing that I do take issue with is if the change seems to take steps backwards in terms of quality. An example of this is the post from Miki at the top of this page. While I can tell it is the exact same character, it is very clear to me that the original looks like the higher quality image. She is using the same face as my character so I can really tell the differences here. The only thing that looks better in the Benchmark is the parting in the lips has a natural dark shade instead of a white line.

These graphical updates should be unquestionably higher in quality, otherwise I have to ask WTF are they even doing and how much time did they spend on this? I/we should be awestruck by these images.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I play the game too. I have for nearly ten years now. The strong emotional attachment to one's character is not a foreign concept to me. That is a huge reason why I will not use fantasias on my avatar even to change her eye color (I've been tempted to do so to make them blue instead of purple, but I just can't do it). This is also a reason why I tend to not favor certain pieces of gear that alter the choices I made to my character in the custom creator, but I still may use them from time to time because they are temporary.

What I am telling you is that based off of the images you have provided, these kind of changes would not make me feel the way you do. I am talking specifically to my own avatar. The only thing that is really going to do that are drastic changes that would make her not even look like the same character. That is what I would take issue with.

The other thing that I do take issue with is if the change seems to take steps backwards in terms of quality. An example of this is the post from Miki at the top of this page. While I can tell it is the exact same character, it is very clear to me that the original looks like the higher quality image. She is using the same face as my character so I can really tell the differences here. The only thing that looks better in the Benchmark is the parting in the lips has a natural dark shade instead of a white line.

These graphical updates should be unquestionably higher in quality, otherwise I have to ask WTF are they even doing and how much time did they spend on this? I/we should be awestruck by these images.

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So ultimately we've come down to arguing about subjective feelings. That's fine, but I think reacting strongly to a level of changing the expression and vibe of a character isn't really any less valid than not caring at all.

I apologize in advance if I got this wrong, but it seems like you're arguing that because you personally are not bothered if a character model change alters your character's expression and vibe, it's not reasonable for other players to do so?

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Originally Posted by Ibbers

So ultimately we've come down to arguing about subjective feelings. That's fine, but I think reacting strongly to a level of changing the expression and vibe of a character isn't really any less valid than not caring at all.

I apologize in advance if I got this wrong, but it seems like you're arguing that because you personally are not bothered if a character model change alters your character's expression and vibe, it's not reasonable for other players to do so?

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Not once did I say your feelings are not valid. I've offered my condolences for your dissatisfaction, expressed how I can relate to your feelings, and complimented the beauty of your avatar and your style. Yet, you can only take my statements as negative simply because they do not align with yours. That's how this goes, and that's how all these threads will go. Anyone who has anything different to say other than shunning these changes and updates will be deemed as a contrarian.

You're not in the wrong, but if I am not bothered by some of the updates, especially if feelings about them are subjective, then I am the one being unreasonable? Is the only way I can be reasonable is by joining the hate parade upset by these changes? That sounds a bit unfair.

I don't find anyone's feelings on this matter to be invalid. I have mentioned my fair share of criticisms regarding some of these updates along with theirs. All I am saying is that for me personally, the changes are not significant enough to disconnect my emotional ties with my own character.