Relatively new. Trying AST. Need serious help.

Hello guys. So I still consider myself new, only having completed the msq and such on one class. After leveling WHM to 90 and now working on AST I have.. encountered some demoralizing situations.

What am I supposed to do to keep people alive? I know this sounds like a moronic questions but I feel like unlike on WHM, on AST the tank is always damn near death and I have to pump out so much GCD healing that it just makes my hands sweat. Earlier a tank noticed this and started pulling 3 at a time which made me feel like garbage since on WHM I can take and handle all the big pulls.

I only just hit SHB dungeons with AST and after the first one I feel like I have to be missing something, I shouldnt have to be spamming Benefict 2 non stop just to keep him alive. So please, tell me what the hell I am doing wrong? Constructive feedback is really needed. Usually what I do at the start is Aspected Ben during the pull, then I'll usually hit another regen from a different source, I even use Synasatry[sp?] and I still feel like I am hardly doing ANYTHING. Is it me or just the level or? Anyways, I appreciate anyone who responds and have a good morning!

Oh duh! I forgot to mention that, I was using Earthly star right before the pull stopped or right when he was done gathering and stood in place. I always make sure to use Essential Dignity as well, maybe not at the below 30% for the potency max but around 30-45ish I would say? Even then I was barely keeping him from 35-45ish percent at max all the time. I wont put the blame on him because he was wearing all 650 gear so it had to be clearly my doing.

Sometimes, it's already beyond ypur control, as Bole mentioned.

Just curious, was the tank rotating mits properly or was he kitchen sinking?

If DRK, was he using only TBN?

He was a PLD. I mean I don't know now for SURE if he was, since I can't remember right off hand. Mainly, because I was so focused on spamming the hell out of Benefict 2 so he didn't die. I do remember a couple of pulls that I had to burn through every CD, and I do mean every one of them. Thats what he started pulling small because I couldn't keep up with the healing at all. ._.

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Originally Posted by SenseiVyra

He was a PLD. I mean I don't know now for SURE if he was, since I can't remember right off hand. Mainly, because I was so focused on spamming the hell out of Benefict 2 so he didn't die. I do remember a couple of pulls that I had to burn through every CD, and I do mean every one of them. Thats what he started pulling small because I couldn't keep up with the healing at all. ._.

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I see. Holminster is harsh to tanks that isn't WAR. So it is understandable. He may have kitchen sinked his mits. Was there a period where he barely took damage?

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Originally Posted by SenseiVyra

He was a PLD. I mean I don't know now for SURE if he was, since I can't remember right off hand. Mainly, because I was so focused on spamming the hell out of Benefict 2 so he didn't die. I do remember a couple of pulls that I had to burn through every CD, and I do mean every one of them. Thats what he started pulling small because I couldn't keep up with the healing at all. ._.

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It's also worth noting that PLD has absolutely no self-healing aside from Clemency at any level below 82, which makes the other tanks feel easier to heal by contrast. WAR has, well, everything, GNB has Aurora from lv45, and DRK has Abyssal Drain from lv56.

Oh I know! Thats why I am not putting the blame on him. Like I said earlier on, I believe I may have messed up at some point. For all I know he could of been using his mitigation correctly and I was just having a fit with my fingers. I have only noticed this change in play when I hit ShB. Obviously the drastic change to damage output and such is expected, I just didn't expect it like this. I never had this issue at all with WHM going through ShB ever, period. I don't want to blame AST neither because I have had amazing AST healers and seen them with my own eyes at this level. Which is all coming back to it's something to do with me and I fully accept this, which is why I am trying to remedy it.

A tips that I normally offer to learning WHM/AST is to run a little bit ahead of the tank during wall pulling then slap Asp Helios+Asp Benefic for the tank. This is especially useful to help your tank stabilize or to give yourself ample time as the 300p regen/tick act as a buffer. Also a viable approach when you're paired with squishy tanks. The timeline usually goes like this:

1. Run like 5y ahead of your tank.
2. DoT as much enemies as possible.
3. Feel free to spam Asp Benefic while running if needed.
4. Know where your tank will stop ahead? Drop that Earthly Star.
5. Hardcast Asp Helios+Asp Benefic on your tank. If you're close enough, weave in Collective Unconscious. Now your tank has 400p regen/tick. Otherwise use Celestial Opposition. Just don't blow both CO & CU together. You want them spaced.
6. Start spam Gravities. Maybe weave in Celestial Intersection, who knows pull will last long to get two uses.
7. By the time that 400p regen tick starts to wear off, your Earthly Star should be in their 2nd stage and your tank should be able to benefit from its fat 720p. Detonate it.
8. From this point, Celestial Opposition (or CU) and Essential Dignity should be enough to handle the remainder until the pack dies. If the tank is squishy I'd just refresh the Asp Benefic then weave Opposition.
9. Sub in Synastry-Benefic II anywhere if you feel like the tank need it.

Never fails. Mind you the GCD regen stacking isn't really needed but if you need to gauge just how much can get away from not using GCD heals, start from there and adjust accordingly.

EDIT: Bonus point if you’re confident enough to also weave in cards properly & pop divination in conjunction to use of Lightspeed during all the busy work (aka their ‘reopener’ lol). But if you’re still trying to get a hang on it, I wouldn’t recommend doing that at the same time just yet.

AST is the weakest 4-man healer imo, and with Holminster it's especially bad.
Your only instant burst heal is the 1 SINGLE essential dignity per 40s, and your other heals are either regens or delayed.
Compare that with WHM having tetra+bene+lilies per 20s and SCH/SGE having lustrate/excog/duro/tauro per 20s + free regen.

I use the levelling roulette quite often and play different healers randomly, and AST+Holminster is THE ONE that I actually need to use Synastry+Benefic II (basically the last resort for AST) and still barely catch up.
I don't think it's your or the tank's fault. AST is just bad at that particular level.
It gets easier at higher levels.

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Originally Posted by TakumiHarada

AST is the weakest 4-man healer imo, and with Holminster it's especially bad.
Your only instant burst heal is the 1 SINGLE essential dignity per 40s, and your other heals are either regens or delayed.
Compare that with WHM having tetra+bene+lilies per 20s and SCH/SGE having lustrate/excog/duro/tauro per 20s + free regen.

I use the levelling roulette quite often and play different healers randomly, and AST+Holminster is THE ONE that I actually need to use Synastry+Benefic II (basically the last resort for AST) and still barely catch up.
I don't think it's your or the tank's fault. AST is just bad at that particular level.
It gets easier at higher levels.

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Weakest ?- it depends upon the person as well.

I've never used synastry in Holminster and hadn't an issue (aside from my first run which was quite interesting levelling) however that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a good idea to do so with a specific group (e.g. tank that's undergeared). As you say there's only one charge of ED, in the past if people stayed out of your star, it could get really bad and lead to a wipe, but that should really not be an issue now. Clearly you don't have access to some of the really good heals like macro at that level however you do have access to additional instant heals CU, CO - and some (limited) mitigation.

I mean... Not to get into details because it's OT but objectively AST has:
- the lowest total potency of free heals for the tank (except maybe Macro depending on how you use it, but WHM also has Bene and its free heals have higher total potency over a minute)
- the lowest rDPS in 4-man dungeons, by quite a margin
When the total DPS is low and the wall-to-walls take forever, an AST will need to start using A.Benefic/Benefic II earlier than the other healers. It has fewer free tools to fall back on.
It's totally OK to use A.Benefic/Benefic II because no one actually "optimises" dungeons, but it worsens the low DPS further and the fight takes even longer.

It's a good job for 8-man raids, I sometimes play it for the excitement in dungeons as I said before, but I mean,
if you play all healers in 4-man dungeons you'd know WHM/SCH/SGE are just easier to keep the tank alive, especially when you're paired with a non-WAR who doesn't use their mitigations.

Not to mention OP was at lv72 which is one of AST's weakest spots I'd say, before getting CI & double EDs.

For me it's quite the opposite: I have struggled more with WHM than with AST. I didn't find AST's healing to be insufficient. Especially with its current state. Benefic 2 and Asp Helios are faster than Cure 2 and Medica 2. Not to mention, all the staggered healing AST have in its kit are somehow giving me the feeling that AST is more proactive among the reactive healers.

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Originally Posted by Bole

I don’t agree that AST is as weak as you say. What you’re describing is how I felt about 5.0 patch-day AST in Holminster, but it has gone through a significant number of buffs since then. AST lacks in 4-man rDPS, that’s about it.

WHM typically has an easier time in dungeons because holy and benediction are very strong, and not gear dependent.

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Of course it's better at lv90 with all the new tools.
God forbid ANY healer using up everything when most tanks don't even need a healer to begin with.
Since I think most people would agree that the BHs are easier than the PHs to upkeep the tank, and if you agree that WHM is easier than AST for wall-to-walls, then AST automatically becomes the most difficult in that aspect.
(Not to mention the oGCD traffic jam with AST!)

You could argue "hey the bar is really low", but I was doing a "comparison", not absolute power.
Besides, it actually becomes quite obvious when the tank doesn't use any mitigation in The Dead Ends. AST would be the first healer to end up spamming GCD heals.

That plus the lower rDPS. Does that not make it the weakest objectively?

Honestly I also agree WHM feels the worst in dungeons simply because despite being a regen healer WHM has the least access to actual passive regens, AST gets 2, SGE and SCH get 3, WHM only gets 1 and its a bubble

It’s hard to overestimate just how much work kardia and eos do in dungeon runs so u always notice the lack of them on regen healers then I notice even more WHM’s lack of regens beyond that

I agree single target healing on AST is relatively dicey though till you get that second charge of essential dignity and celestial intersection because a lot of the mid range heals AST gets are AOE (star, CU and CO all in quick succession), WHM has the benefit of holy but a lot of tanks don’t really take advantage of it to better stagger their mitigation

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

It’s hard to overestimate just how much work kardia and eos do in dungeons uns so u always notice the lack of them on regen healers then I notice even more WHM’s lack of regens beyond that

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Shield healers, in general, becomes easier with experience. Pure healers plateau quickly.

WHM SCH and AST are definitely sitting at weird spot at lv72 having few holes here & there when it comes to handling the first 2 pulls of Holminsters.

WHM have Tetra, Benediction, Benison, and Asylum at that point before having to dip into Solaces that feeds to their nonexisting Misery. They do have Holies.
SCH have fae, 6 AF stacks, & Whispering Dawn. Maybe count double prepull Adlos (one on tank and another on yourself to spread) too. After that they have to bite the loss.
AST have Essential Dignity, Collective Unconsciousness, Celestial Opposition, and Earthly Star before having to dip to GCDs.

SGE is the only one that doesn't have this issue because Haima pretty much trivializes whichever of the two pulls that they decide to use it on, and they have wealth of other tools & kardion.

It's not your fault OP. I too had to experience AST in Holminster and the single Essential Dignity it's carried since Sastasha, in contrast to a SGE's 20-second three-stack heals that are obtained around 30 levels earlier. No getting through that without some Benefics.

A job/class is only as good as the player behind it!
In 4-man+++ content , you're playing with other players, their performence will effect you..and you will effect them.

Experience is your best teacher, thats how i learned to play AST, guides on YT can teach you the bare basics.
But none of them will teach you the stuff you learn by doing 5000+ dungeons runs.

Holminster Switch has some brutal pulls, i wouldnt say AST is at fault.

Not all healing jobs are created equal, and that's fine.

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Originally Posted by VictorSpoils

Not all healing jobs are created equal, and that's fine.

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The jobs are quite balanced right now, more so at 90.
In low lvl content, all healers are viable ..
Some req more effort than others - Sure.
But they're not weaker!.

Also [Holminster Switch] can be hard on any healer
if they lack experience with the role / job.

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Originally Posted by Zeastria

The jobs are quite balanced right now, more so at 90.
In low lvl content, all healers are viable ..
Some req more effort than others - Sure.
But they're not weaker!.

Also [Holminster Switch] can be hard on any healer
if they lack experience with the role / job.

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This is not a diss at AST mains. The other healers still have it easier at that level.

Is there anything similar going on with The Dead Ends (the final EW msq dungeon)?
I don't know if I just had some really weird runs with tanks (all drk) that didn't mit properly or if my brain was on vacation everytime but it popped up in roulette a couple of times recently and somehow I really struggled during the pulls as AST.
I don't struggle in any other lvl 90 dungeon and can manage just fine with all my ogcds and an occasional gcd if the tank doesn't mit well. Drks are generally not a problem either. But during those recent runs I was using all my ogcds and pumped out benefic 2s nonstop with no time to dps.
I also ran it as scholar for comparison and ironically got a warrior that time but even then I felt like I had to use more gcds than in other lvl 90 dungeons. It surprised me because as scholar I generally don't need gcds at all during pulls unless something goes really south.
I have a really hard time discerning if I was just incredibly unlucky and the tanks didn't mit well, if the problem was on my part (bc obviously I can't rule out that I made more mistakes than usual without being aware of it) or if that dungeon's damage is considerably higher than others' at the same level?

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Originally Posted by Loggos

Is there anything similar going on with The Dead Ends (the final EW msq dungeon)?
I don't know if I just had some really weird runs with tanks (all drk) that didn't mit properly but it popped up in roulette a couple of times recently and somehow I really struggled during the pulls as AST.
I don't struggle in any other lvl 90 dungeon and can manage just fine with all my ogcds and an occasional gcd if the tank doesn't mit well. Drks are generally not a problem either. But during those recent runs I was using all my ogcds and pumped out benefic 2s nonstop with no time to dps.
I also ran it as scholar for comparison and ironically got a warrior that time but even then I felt like I had to use more gcds than in other lvl 90 dungeons. It surprised me because as scholar I generally don't need gcds at all during pulls unless something goes really south.
I have a really hard time discerning if I was just incredibly unlucky and the tanks didn't mit well, if the problem was on my part (bc obviously I can't rule out that I made more mistakes than usual without being aware of it) or if that dungeon's damage is considerably higher than others' at the same level?

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You triggered my ptsd when I read DRKs. When I initially returned after a long hiatus from the game, I leveled all my healers to 90 and all of them, consistently, I have struggled when healing DRKs. Special mention to TBN only DRKs. They're extra hard to heal.

Probably DRKs who forgot they’re not playing a WAR.

Jokes aside… from tanking perspective, I have forced numerous Diagnosis/Cure I/Benefic I/Physick Mages to heal me thru all wall pulls in Dead Ends as a DRK. It was fine. I just had go make sure I can use TBN on cd and capitalize the heal gain from Abyssal Drains. Everything else is pretty much the same tanking business.

Your tanks probably aren’t that good at spacing their mits or overspent their MP… or many other reasons.

Thank you for the feedback! Then perhaps this really was the case and it was just a lot of situational factors coming together.