My Alt is an Idiot

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Anyway, she's gathering Aether Currents in Labrynthos, and it's hard.
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Not because she's dead, she's fine but because how these zones keep FORCING her to not go wherever the plot hasn't gone yet.

For a first time playthrough it's fine, and even a fun way to get more out of a zone, but re-doing this for an alt is mind-numbingly tedious.

LOOK, SHE'S GROWING WHITE HAIRS BECAUSE OF THIS
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I'm not even supposed to be down here yet, but I used a powerful cheat someone flew me down here to make this grind not as bad.
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Also, this is some of the random stuff that she needs to mindlessly complete just to be caught up.
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Dear Square: Please help her. Look at her! Do you want her to keep beating Mandragoras with a book for the rest of time??
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I have a third alt, but this is seriously turning me off from ever getting her this far.

Now, the obvious question: Why get an alt? You can play everything on one character and there's Data Center travel.
An my answer to you is: Because I'm an idiot, that's why.

It's not even the previous xpacs. Endwalker specifically is turning out to be a slog to re-clear without flying and other quality of life things you just have in NG+, and I may eventually even drop Hilda too, but I'm forcing myself to push through for now. I have no idea if I'll have it in me to get her caught up with Dawntrail in the future.

I love XIV, but the game being so alt-unfriendly just kills me. It's costing me hours and making me dislike content I otherwise love.

Anyway, I may take a break from the forums for a while. I need fresh air or something.

Have a good day and take care!

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

It's not even the previous xpacs. Endwalker specifically is turning out to be a slog to re-clear without flying and other quality of life things you just have in NG+, and I may eventually even drop Hilda too, but I'm forcing myself to push through for now. I have no idea if I'll have it in me to get her caught up with Dawntrail in the future.

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Yepppp.
I know this because for the alt I use for the forums I had to reclear 6.0. And boy howdy did Endwalker's pacing on replay make me want to pull my hair off. It's a huge slowdown from the previous expansions.

Ugh I am not looking forward to this. My wife has decided to play so I made an alt to go with her and it's just a slog. Cuz I am trying to go thru the story with her I am not doing any scene skips.

I have other alts but I stop at 70 so I can do Eureka.

Aren't those field Aether currents completely worthless to you until you get the last few locked behind the MSQ anyway, and that lock usually lasts until you can explore the entire zone?
I'll admit I didn't pay attention to it in EW and can't remember HW but during SB and ShB that seemed to hold true so if they didn't change things you're doing this to yourself for no reason.

I have played an alt in XIV only once, when the first batch of new servers launched and the only goal was getting to 30 with all the XP buffs to get free subscription time, and that experience completely turned me off ever wanting to have an alt in this game. Never have I seen a game as alt-unfriendly as this short of the games that give you only the one character slot to begin with. I consider myself truly lucky that in all the years of playing my grumpy old man I never had the urge to regularly change anything but my glamour, it's no wonder Fantasias (and skips) sell like hot cakes if the alt experience is ...this.

An acquaintance likes to liken playing XIV to watching The Sixth Sense - the first time around it's great, the second time it loses a lot of the charm because you're aware of the twist/miss all the little QoL features the game keeps from you. While I personally still enjoy watching that movie every now and then they have a point, none of the repeats ever reach the twist hitting you for the first time. I can't even imagine subjecting myself to a reclear of XIV, constantly waiting for the game to get to "the good part".

As Astrus points out, getting the Aether currents sooner does no good because you still have to complete the MSQ story for the zone to get the final one. Why go out of the way early when the MSQ will take you to those currents?

As for playing alts in general, that's personal choice. Just what is "caught up" supposed to be and why is it important to you?

I look at your journal and see a bunch of quests listed that I haven't done on most of my alts (or any in a couple of cases) and don't plan to do. My main is the character that experiences everything I'm interested in/capable of at least trying. My alts don't need to repeat everything my main has done or collect everything my main has. They're mostly to repeat MSQ since NG+ doesn't feel the same without the corresponding character progression, get extra hits in on timed nodes and have extra housing (apartments are still fun even if not the same as a house). If there is side content I found particularly fun and has something I will actively use on an alt, then I'll repeat it on the alt. If there's no reward the alt will use, I'll stick to repeating it on my main.

Again, it's personal choice but I don't see why an alt should be granted immediate credit for content completion and given rewards just because a player has already done it on a main. What's the point of having an alt if it's little more than a display mannequin that's not actively being played because everything was already done on the main?

More threads like this!

10/10

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Originally Posted by Astrus

Aren't those field Aether currents completely worthless to you until you get the last few locked behind the MSQ anyway, and that lock usually lasts until you can explore the entire zone?

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Exactly. Instead of detouring to those places now ahead of time for the sole purpose of collecting aether currents you can't use yet, just carry on with MSQ until it takes you down there and you'll walk straight past at least some of those currents along the way.

Some of the currents that come from sidequests don't unlock until very late in the second half of MSQ there, so field currents have no immediate value until then.

I would just do six FATEs so the gemstone trader sells the land speed boost, do the minimum questing necessary, and move on to other parts of the game for now, rather than assigning yourself inefficient goals and then grumbling about their inefficiency.

(Certainly the game does inflict a fair bit of inefficiency on its own, but you're making it worse for yourself.)


As for sidequests, do them because you want to re-experience them or you want glamour from them, not for some arbitrary need to be caught up.

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Originally Posted by Astrus

Aren't those field Aether currents completely worthless to you until you get the last few locked behind the MSQ anyway, and that lock usually lasts until you can explore the entire zone?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

As Astrus points out, getting the Aether currents sooner does no good because you still have to complete the MSQ story for the zone to get the final one.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Instead of detouring to those places now ahead of time for the sole purpose of collecting aether currents you can't use yet, just carry on with MSQ until it takes you down there and you'll walk straight past at least some of those currents along the way.

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I have to get them no matter what, and I'd rather do it right away. Zones like Garlemald and Il Mheg (and a few others across xpacs) let me go wherever I want as soon as I set foot in them. The idea of segmenting a zone for the new player is to bring them back later in the story for new surprises, and I'm down for that but... I'm not a new player. There's no surprises left in the map for me, yet I'm still forced to stay inside the proverbial cage. I don't like that.

Or... I'm an idiot, whichever works better for you.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

As for sidequests, do them because you want to re-experience them or you want glamour from them, not for some arbitrary need to be caught up.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Just what is "caught up" supposed to be and why is it important to you?

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Oh, the laundry list of things? It's just dungeons base raids, so I could run them with friends, nothing more. I don't think I'm being unreasonable.

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At the end of the day, the game simply offers no solution for leveling an alt beyond some expensive skips that aren't even useful for Endwalker at this time, and it bothered me so I decided to make a funny thread.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

The idea of segmenting a zone for the new player is to bring them back later in the story for new surprises, and I'm down for that but... I'm not a new player. There's no surprises left in the map for me, yet I'm still forced to stay inside the proverbial cage. I don't like that.

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Mind you, the real idea of segmenting a zone (specifically the now-typical two starting zones) is because devs are savvy enough to divide the player base starting a new expansion so that we don't end up with a first zone that's too congested to get into (see: Stormblood). I'd say it's less about "new surprises" and more just disguising how players get distributed through an expansion. (but I also expect you fully understand all of that as well)

Personally, I'd just as soon see all these split zones actually split. If I'm done in the low level region, let that region be done and unlock flying. Huge open empty zones don't really feel all that more impressive anyway.

I have five 5 alts at end-of-content, plus one post-Endwalker, one in ShB, and one ready to enter ShB.
Having one of the fast mounts (i.e. the cash shop motorcycles) helps.
Having two accounts and two machines helps, too, you can fly a new alt to the Aetherytes and aether currents.
But it's not for everyone.

My alts follow a pattern: level WAR to 60, pickup DNC, level those two to 70, pick up SGE, head for 90 on all three.
Only two of them (my mains) deviate from that -- they did at least one class per role, so I could do all the role-based content.
Road to 80 helps a lot. Especially with getting all the hand and land classes to 90 as well. :)

And it's not totally useless: pairing two alts to do crafting or timed-node gathering saves tons of time.
Of course, it takes tons of time to get to that point, but ... it's time spent playing a game, chillin.
Sometimes I even watch the cutscenes again -- unless Alpha-nerd is in them.

No life? Maybe, but it's worse than you might think.
See, my spouse has two accounts, two machines, and multiple alts at EoC as well.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Oh, the laundry list of things? It's just dungeons base raids, so I could run them with friends, nothing more. I don't think I'm being unreasonable.

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At the end of the day, the game simply offers no solution for leveling an alt beyond some expensive skips that aren't even useful for Endwalker at this time, and it bothered me so I decided to make a funny thread.

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Don't need to be able to fly to run dungeons and raids with your friends since you can queue for those from anywhere once unlocked. If you're trying to unlock something like Sky Pirates where flying to get to the teleport for the quests is mandatory, a friend can fly you. It's a rare player that doesn't have a passenger mount, especially with the FFXV event happening right now.

Might as well skip flying altogether if it's going to be almost useless for how you intend to play the character.

I'm also wondering why you can't use your main to do the content with your friends. You'd already have flying and the content unlocked. Being on a different data center is not a hindrance as long as you're in the same region. I take this character to Dynamis when others in my Marilith FC want to do content I haven't unlocked (and don't want to unlock) on my characters there.

I wouldn't call you an idiot. Other MMORPGs have ingrained the need to have alts in many of us who have played them. It can be rough to break habit. I just don't see any need to give new characters automatic credit for things other characters on the account have already done, especially when those things aren't especially time consuming and/or flow naturally with other content the new character is going to need to do regardless.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

I have to get them no matter what, and I'd rather do it right away. Zones like Garlemald and Il Mheg (and a few others across xpacs) let me go wherever I want as soon as I set foot in them. The idea of segmenting a zone for the new player is to bring them back later in the story for new surprises, and I'm down for that but... I'm not a new player. There's no surprises left in the map for me, yet I'm still forced to stay inside the proverbial cage. I don't like that.

Or... I'm an idiot, whichever works better for you.

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Whatever you want to call it, the fact remains that you are not playing as the devs intended and are deliberately going around road blocks they've set to tell you that you don't need to do it yet, so you can't complain at them for it.

By the story, you go to Labyrinthos and visit locations A, B and C according to story, and collect currents while you'll find as you go along. You go do other stuff, then eventually return to Labyrinthos to visit locations D, E and F and collect the rest of the currents as you move through that area.

Instead you're choosing to deliberately sequence-break to go visit D, E and F before you actually have to or even can according to the devs' plans, and then you'll have to go there a second time for story anyway.

The early collection of currents has gained you nothing in the meanwhile, just double handling something you had to do anyway.


And yes, it's true that there are some zones like Garlemald where you can collect all the currents the moment you step foot in the zone, but that's because you only go there once in the course of the story, and I still see no point in doing so until you have at least unlocked all the quest-based currents. Before then, keep an eye on your compass while questing and pick up currents that are near where you're travelling, but leave the clean-up until the quests are done and you can actually use the currents.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I'm also wondering why you can't use your main to do the content with your friends

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Now, the obvious question: Why get an alt? You can play everything on one character and there's Data Center travel.
An my answer to you is: Because I'm an idiot, that's why.

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Literally joke's on me for having an itch to play a Miqo'te, I guess. Seriously, I'm an idiot for trying to make an alt, that's the whole point of the thread.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Whatever you want to call it, the fact remains that you are not playing as the devs intended and are deliberately going around road blocks they've set to tell you that you don't need to do it yet, so you can't complain at them for it.

Keep an eye on your compass while questing and pick up currents that are near where you're travelling, but leave the clean-up until the quests are done and you can actually use the currents.

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Auriele... I don't have a problem with how the aether currents work, nor do I go around sequence breaking when I first went through any of this. My issue is specifically about having no alternatives for my alt. Nothing in your argument addresses that.

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I'm never even asked for instant flight, just... something to make life easier on an alt. I truly feel like an idiot for making an alt. Square offers no quality of life assistance of any kind (even though it wouldn't hurt anyone), and some of the sentiment I'm getting from the thread is "deal with it" so yeah, lesson learned: I'm not making any more alts.

Your list is one of the reason why I only have 1 half baked alt in this game. I wish the game isn't so altagonistic.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

I wish the game isn't so altagonistic.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

My issue is specifically about having no alternatives for my alt. Nothing in your argument addresses that.

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Yes, my argument does address that.

No, you do not have "no alternative" but to sequence-break to collect items that are 100% useless to you at this stage.

You can just play an alt like any new character. Go where the MSQ directs you, collect currents as you go.

You do not need all the currents now. You cannot collect all the currents now because they are locked behind sidequests that won't be available until the whole zone is open to you at level 88.

You have a choice and you are choosing the option that artificially inflates how much work you have to do, against the design intentions of the game.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Yes, my argument does address that.

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You offered no solution. Playing as if I was new isn't a solution, it only reafirms the problem.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

No, you do not have "no alternative" but to sequence-break to collect items that are 100% useless to you at this stage

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You're missing the point. The currents have to get collected to fly, and I have no idea why it bothers you that I wanna do that first.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

You can just play an alt like any new character. Go where the MSQ directs you, collect currents as you go

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Yes, this is exactly what I'm saying. That's EXACTLY the problem. The fact that an alt is treated as if the player behind it is new IS the problem.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

You do not need all the currents now. You cannot collect all the currents now because they are locked behind sidequests that won't be available until the whole zone is open to you at level 88

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Still missing the point. I don't intend to fly early, I'm just getting busywork out of the way.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

You have a choice and you are choosing the option that artificially inflates how much work you have to do, against the design intentions of the game.

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I've tried both approaches. Getting the currents early has always worked better for me. Even if the zone is split, I always get all the currents I can on one side and then follow MSQ. I in fact just did that with Elpis. If that bothers you, deal with it. Not everyone plays like you do.

You keep thinking I'm annoyed at the currents specifically. I've explained quite clearly what the problem actually is, but here it is for you, one more time...

- I don't have a problem with the currents or how they work with the zone divisions
- My issue is having no mechanic to help my alt do what my main already did.
- This doesn't apply to only currents but to EVERYTHING that needs re-unlocking as an alt.

Clearly, getting an itch to play a Miqo'te and making an alt for it was a terrible mistake, not because I have to get aether currents in whatever order but because there are no catching up mechanics to help alts get everything set. So yeah, joke's on me Square. I won't make any more alts in the future.

Guess I'm not only an idiot for playing an alt, but also for trying to have fun with the post. Leave it to the forums to get obsessed with the wrong thing and miss the point entirely.

Gonna go back to only posting dinosaurs attacking Japanese people and men throwing chairs at skeletons.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

I don't intend to fly early, I'm just getting busywork out of the way.

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And my point is, you're not getting busywork out of the way, you're creating busywork.

The game intends that you do A and B together and set up B's objectives with that expectation, but you're going out of your way to do B first and then retread the same ground later for A.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

And my point is, you're not getting busywork out of the way, you're creating busywork.

The game intends that you do A and B together and set up B's objectives with that expectation, but you're going out of your way to do B first and then retread the same ground later for A.

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https://media.tenor.com/JqG0XoCso88AAAAM/bye.gif

- I have no issue with the currents themselves. Whether I frontload them (as I've been doing for 9 years) or do it as your sacred order dictates, it's IRRELEVANT to this thread and topic.
- The issue (for the 100th time), is that there are no mechanics to help alts catch up with dungeons, raids, flying, gear, or anything at all, and are treated as if the player behind them was brand new.

Excellent thread!

10/10!

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Literally joke's on me for having an itch to play a Miqo'te, I guess. Seriously, I'm an idiot for trying to make an alt, that's the whole point of the thread.

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Again, not an idiot. Telling me that you want to see what it felt like to play as a Miqo'te without using a Fantasia on your main makes a lot more sense to me than saying you wanted the alt to play with friends. Race choice does make a difference in how the game feels as you play. Not unusual for me to feel a weird sense of needing to adjust mentally as I switch from one of my lalafell characters to one of my Roegadyns even though the game is otherwise the same.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Auriele... I don't have a problem with how the aether currents work, nor do I go around sequence breaking when I first went through any of this. My issue is specifically about having no alternatives for my alt. Nothing in your argument addresses that.

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But you haven't given a reason for why there need to be alternatives for something that's a simple task compared to most game play. All you've told us is that you don't want to do something you've already done before.

Repeating things you've done before is the MMORPG life. Just about every player could come up with things they don't want to do again but feel the rewards should still be given to their alts. If everyone got their wish, alts wouldn't have anything to do.

Since alts aren't needed to experience everything in the game, the developers haven't found a need to have account-wide content completion or rewards. The few things that are account wide are either additional real money purchases not included in the subscription, or the items earned through the old veterans rewards program. We can't even get them to make a personal house account wide for alts despite the one per server per account restriction.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

I'm never even asked for instant flight, just... something to make life easier on an alt. I truly feel like an idiot for making an alt. Square offers no quality of life assistance of any kind (even though it wouldn't hurt anyone), and some of the sentiment I'm getting from the thread is "deal with it" so yeah, lesson learned: I'm not making any more alts.

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Don't feel like an idiot. You tried something. You've decided it's not right for you. There's no shame in that.

There's also no shame in making a suggestion for change but you also have to be willing to deal with dissenting opinions if you make those suggestions in a public forum. The public forum is a great place if you want others to review your ideas and discuss pros/cons.

If you just want to submit a suggestion without the additional discussion, I would suggest submitting it through the in-game Help Desk. If I'm being honest, I suspect that it's more likely to be forwarded to the development team if you submit it there than by submitting it in the forums. Any of us would be lucky to have one of the moderators or Community Team members find our genuine suggestions in the middle of all the non-constructive trash that gets posted here let alone forward them to the developers.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Again, not an idiot. Telling me that you want to see what it felt like to play as a Miqo'te without using a Fantasia on your main makes a lot more sense to me than saying you wanted the alt to play with friends. Race choice does make a difference in how the game feels as you play.

But you haven't given a reason for why there need to be alternatives for something that's a simple task compared to most game play. All you've told us is that you don't want to do something you've already done before.

Since alts aren't needed to experience everything in the game, the developers haven't found a need to have account-wide content completion or rewards. The few things that are account wide are either additional real money purchases not included in the subscription, or the items earned through the old veterans rewards program. We can't even get them to make a personal house account wide for alts despite the one per server per account restriction.

Don't feel like an idiot. You tried something. You've decided it's not right for you. There's no shame in that.

There's also no shame in making a suggestion for change but you also have to be willing to deal with dissenting opinions if you make those suggestions in a public forum. The public forum is a great place if you want others to review your ideas and discuss pros/cons.

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You know what? Thank you. This was a really reasonable take, and I appreciate you took the time to write it.

And no, you're absolutely right. I did mention catch up mechanics but I didn't really suggest anything, which is in fact the usual complain, and suggest nothing issue that we often have here, and that's on me.

Writing this at the top of my head... having something for the currents like Azys Lla does it, entirely tied to MSQ progression with no world currents could be nice? Then maybe once you finish 4.5 all (base) Raids/Extra Dungeons unlock automatically or something? Maybe you get one free Job boost to use on whatever you want...?

When you put it like this, it sounds more like this would need an entire comprehensive rework, and that would take some time.

To be fair, last time I had properly caught up alts was during Stormblood, and I also had a lot more free time back then. I wasn't expecting it to be this grindy for Endwalker, and I got really frustrated. I also just have fun making needlessly complex posts with images and whatnot, but I guess that's besides the point lol.

Once again though, thanks for this post! I must not forget to also propose solutions and not just do the complaining part next time.

Account shared features i wish existed:
✩Make Glam from the store - shared.
✩Make all+owned mounts/minions/music scrolls/emotes..ect - shared.
✩Aether currents / shared fate progress - shared
✩Titel/Achivements - shared
✩Housing - shared

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

- I have no issue with the currents themselves. Whether I frontload them (as I've been doing for 9 years) or do it as your sacred order dictates, it's IRRELEVANT to this thread and topic.
- The issue (for the 100th time), is that there are no mechanics to help alts catch up with dungeons, raids, flying, gear, or anything at all, and are treated as if the player behind them was brand new.

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And again, my issue isn't even particularly about the currents, but about the fact you're complaining about how they should make it quicker for you to catch up while inventing work for yourself that is above what is necessary.

This was a nice post to see, to change it up for a moment. Nice break from the complaining and bickering that happens here

The "issue" as I understand it stems from the fact that XIV doesn't expect or really want you to have more than the one character per server.
A majority of the underlying systems seem to be built with the expectation that alts are not something people do.
Seding mail? Not to your alts, unless you managed to bug them onto your friendslist or something you need a middle man.
(Past) Seasonal events? Do these on each character or sink money into replica items from the shop.
Sharing the one private house you can get per world per account? Nope.
A good portion of the cash shop items? Single-character with no option to pay more for an account-wide option.
Community contest rewards like the Cloud hair? Single. Character. Go win more contests on your alts.
Creating an alt character on a congested world you already have characters on? Wait for the lock to lift like everyone else. We can't have you bypass the lock if you already have a character on that world. You might break the time-space continuum and log both in simultaneously or something.

The way the MSQ-lock interacts with alts (which is to say it doesn't) is just another point in that list.
There simply is no consideration of "this is an alt, different rules apply here" - it's a concept that doesn't exist as far as the game is concerned.

Their "solution" to this is Fantasias and since those are printing money they really have no incentive to make this game any less alt-unfriendly.
It's like they looked at their competitors, saw them charging money for character renames and race changes and figured they'd copy that, without considering that those competitors encourage alts so nobody has to race-change their one character just to look at something different every now and then.

Short of putting up with the limitations or dropping the prospect of alts there's really no solution to be offered. The problem is baked into the game if you will.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

is that there are no mechanics to help alts catch up with dungeons, raids, flying, gear, or anything at all, and are treated as if the player behind them was brand new.

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There are, its called a story skip and they cost anywhere from 10-20 dollars on the mogstation.

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Originally Posted by BelegErkhten

There are, its called a story skip and they cost anywhere from 10-20 dollars on the mogstation.

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I've used story-skip three times to skip Stormblood, which I dislike replaying.

I've never skipped Shadowbringers though, which I quite enjoy.
Bringing back the night is epic.

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Originally Posted by Astrus

Short of putting up with the limitations or dropping the prospect of alts there's really no solution to be offered. The problem is baked into the game if you will.

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Not necessarily. But coming up with solutions would be dependent on analyzing the reasons why players create alts. Are those reasons due to game design (can think of a couple situations where alts become an actual need, not just a want) or if it's because it's just an optional form of play they enjoy.