Crystal Conflict Multiplayer Queues in Dawntrail

I doubt we will ever get this between now and DT, but I really hope at some point they implement the ability to play CC with friends. Whether it be just adding a seperate group queue rotation to the game, or making the normal casual/ranked queue have the ability to queue for more people. I will honestly take anything at this point, since I just want to be able to play with my friends someway in a Multiplayer game.

If that happens, it ABSOLUTELY needs to be a separate queue.

Separate queue will never pop and kill the coop mode before it even starts.

The only reasonable and viable solution is to allow duos with the requirement in the queue that they have to be matched against another duo (so teams remain symmetrically balanced).

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Originally Posted by Valence

Separate queue will never pop and kill the coop mode before it even starts.

The only reasonable and viable solution is to allow duos with the requirement in the queue that they have to be matched against another duo (so teams remain symmetrically balanced).

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I agree with Valence.

On the same note, the duo queue should be in the same casual queue that is currently in place. I do not group up for any light party queues that the community arranges, but the odd time I would like to queue with a friend into CC. It would affect balance for sure, and I would be on the receiving end of those imbalances if I were solo queuing. That being said, I would take the imbalance before not taking the duo queue.

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Originally Posted by Valence

Separate queue will never pop and kill the coop mode before it even starts.

The only reasonable and viable solution is to allow duos with the requirement in the queue that they have to be matched against another duo (so teams remain symmetrically balanced).

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I disagree. I think more casuals will queue up if they can play with their friends.

At the same time, if they don’t implement a separate queue for premades - then the mode will become extremely unbalanced - more than it is now. Simply having “symmetrical” teams does not equal balanced. 2 bad players coordinating vs 2 good players coordinating is a huge difference.

It’s bad enough the way casual matchmaking is set up to keep good players at around 50% win rate (anecdotes from multiple crystal players, people in forums, reddit and personal experience - no REAL proof). With premades in normal queue, it’s gonna be more of a poopfest. TBH, casual mode is more hardcore than ranked because of all the dead weight teammates you get. Now you want 2 (or more) coordinated dead weight teammates that run off to narnia to NOT kill that one player? It’s gonna force every good player to make a premade and solo queues are gonna die quick.

TLDR; either separate queue for premades or don’t bother at all.

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Originally Posted by Nubrication

I disagree. I think more casuals will queue up if they can play with their friends.

At the same time, if they don’t implement a separate queue for premades - then the mode will become extremely unbalanced - more than it is now. Simply having “symmetrical” teams does not equal balanced. 2 bad players coordinating vs 2 good players coordinating is a huge difference.

It’s bad enough the way casual matchmaking is set up to keep good players at around 50% win rate (anecdotes from multiple crystal players, people in forums, reddit and personal experience - no REAL proof). With premades in normal queue, it’s gonna be more of a poopfest. TBH, casual mode is more hardcore than ranked because of all the dead weight teammates you get. Now you want 2 (or more) coordinated dead weight teammates that run off to narnia to NOT kill that one player? It’s gonna force every good player to make a premade and solo queues are gonna die quick.

TLDR; either separate queue for premades or don’t bother at all.

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You mean it will be as unbalanced as queue syncers make it half the time in the first place?

For a start, allowing duos in smallscale PvP in FFXIV is not a new concept - it existed in The Feast Training up to patch 6.05, where we went to Crystalline Conflict in patch 6.1 right after. Being able to duo up in Feast had way more impact than having duos now ever will, because of how focused attacks and healing worked and of course by virtue of less players per team. Yet it still existed.

CC's greatest criticism for casual mode was the removal of said duo queueing. Arguably, giving legitimate means to duo up again into the normal casual match queue is a double-edged sword - yes it 100% means Crystal and Top 100 candidates like myself could pair with another of the same level and absolutely roll the floor, however since we already had the option to queue sync it would give other players a better chance to coordinate with someone else as well.

I propose the following:

• 1 Duo in queue -> will be put with 8 solos after 90-120s
• 2 Duos in queue -> symmetrical duo match making with 6 solo players
• 3 Duos in queue -> first two duos symmetrical, third duo matched after 45-120s in queue, asymmetrical duos with 4 solos (potentially make use of hidden MMR slightly in favour of three solos)
• 4 Duos in queue -> symmetrical double duo matchmaking with two solos.

I personally want to live in a world where you have one queue that lets you queue with all party sizes between 1 and 5. Obviously if this was the case they would need some kind of actual matchmaking system that would try to match you with similar parties, but knowing the issues that already exist in the game I doubt that would happen. I do agree overall that a duos in our current system would be the easiest to implement, and I agree it's far better than just adding a separate queue for groups.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

You mean it will be as unbalanced as queue syncers make it half the time in the first place?

For a start, allowing duos in smallscale PvP in FFXIV is not a new concept - it existed in The Feast Training up to patch 6.05, where we went to Crystalline Conflict in patch 6.1 right after. Being able to duo up in Feast had way more impact than having duos now ever will, because of how focused attacks and healing worked and of course by virtue of less players per team. Yet it still existed.

CC's greatest criticism for casual mode was the removal of said duo queueing. Arguably, giving legitimate means to duo up again into the normal casual match queue is a double-edged sword - yes it 100% means Crystal and Top 100 candidates like myself could pair with another of the same level and absolutely roll the floor, however since we already had the option to queue sync it would give other players a better chance to coordinate with someone else as well.

I propose the following:

• 1 Duo in queue -> will be put with 8 solos after 90-120s
• 2 Duos in queue -> symmetrical duo match making with 6 solo players
• 3 Duos in queue -> first two duos symmetrical, third duo matched after 45-120s in queue, asymmetrical duos with 4 solos (potentially make use of hidden MMR slightly in favour of three solos)
• 4 Duos in queue -> symmetrical double duo matchmaking with two solos.

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I stopped playing Feast when the forest map (lich something) came out and there wasn't even a feast training mode back then (if I remember correctly - it was a long long time ago). You could do 2 4v4 premade teams in a private game but there was no random stranger solo queuer. There was another feast mode back then where people could do 8v8s. That was the "casual" mode. People played with friends and played for shiz and giggles. It was literally not competitive. It was 100% casual. Unfortunately casual CC is not really "casual" because people (or atleast someone in your team does) actually care about winning. You throw in dead weight teammates x2 (or more) and you just get bad games/stomps. Even more bad than they are now at peak hours. Using your logic, we might as well compare the Feast to the Fold.

Personally, I’d like to be able to q up with 2 of my friends and be on the same team. PVP is much more fun when ur battling with ur buddies. It’s 50/50 when u q with friends now and I’m not feeling that tbh. However i spend hours in PVP. It’s currently my favorite thing to do in game.

I loved DCuniverses PVP system. I would like to see that somehow incorporated her! (Crosses fingers)

If we're going to continue to go the solo route for CC can customs mode at least be updated to where we can queue undersized? Current customs with the strict 10 man restrictions isn't all that attractive.

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Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

If we're going to continue to go the solo route for CC can customs mode at least be updated to where we can queue undersized? Current customs with the strict 10 man restrictions isn't all that attractive.

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That's one of the main issues I have with the current system. If me and a friend just want to do CC for fun, we either have to pf 8 other people to queue for customs or we just queue sync, which is both not legal and sometimes just doesn't work. I know Feast had full party queues, but I don't think it fulfills the same need as just queuing undersized. Also there is the issue of just messed up queues.

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Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

If we're going to continue to go the solo route for CC can customs mode at least be updated to where we can queue undersized? Current customs with the strict 10 man restrictions isn't all that attractive.

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I've tried to press for that for a long time. :( Anytime Yoshida showcases a new CC map, it's always him going in solo. I know they're capable, but likely concerned about instance space? Ridiculous, considering explorer mode exists.

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Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

If we're going to continue to go the solo route for CC can customs mode at least be updated to where we can queue undersized? Current customs with the strict 10 man restrictions isn't all that attractive.

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I heard of a 2v2 community-driven tourney that just happened where everyone qued into a 10 player instance of Clockwork Castletown and did their 2v2s there. Feels silly that the community has to go to that length when an undersized system would work so much better.

They need to do something like ranked in casual because it gets way too lopsided in CC casual as well.