The ROG dissonance~

My favourite class is hands down ROG, until 30.... Then it becomes weeb trash.

Does anyone else feel like there's a missed opportunity, A VERY OBVIOUS ONE, to instead become THF? You keep the dashing looks and the stabby stabby, and you get to like, continue being a dual-wielding bad arse.

But no, you suddenly become Naruto.

I DO NOT GET IT.

This post brought to you by the ROG hunt log. And how cool ROG is, until it drinks the Naruto-ade.

Many people were. I imagine that's one of biggest reasons why next scouting job is gonna be Viper, basically continuing with rogue aesthetics, but without the stupid ninjutsu stuff.

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Originally Posted by Heroman3003

Many people were. I imagine that's one of biggest reasons why next scouting job is gonna be Viper, basically continuing with rogue aesthetics, but without the stupid ninjutsu stuff.

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I'm very much of this mindset. I am looking forward to seeing what Viper will bring to the table and if it can fulfill the rogue archetype that Ninja has completely left behind.

It makes zero sense to me, "Ah! A dashing young vagabond from Lima Lopsipop or w/e it's called, Lampost Laminated. You'll now instantly learn the Far Eastern Arts!"

> "Um, could I just continue to stab and kick things? That works bro."

Yeah I was a bit disappointed when it first came out and then lead into Ninja instead of Thief. I'm hoping Viper gives us a more thieflike version.

Rogue (well, Thief, but Yoshi-P thought that had too many negative connotations for our good-aligned WoL) turned into Ninja in the original Final Fantasy, so it makes perfect sense, in terms of Final Fantasy. Totally makes sense that people would've wanted a more straight melee role, though. I am glad that Viper is coming out for folks that wanted more hacky-slashy then boomy-bangy.

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Originally Posted by RaideDuku

Rogue (well, Thief, but Yoshi-P thought that had too many negative connotations for our good-aligned WoL) turned into Ninja in the original Final Fantasy, so it makes perfect sense, in terms of Final Fantasy. Totally makes sense that people would've wanted a more straight melee role, though. I am glad that Viper is coming out for folks that wanted more hacky-slashy then boomy-bangy.

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Yeah it does and Ninja in FFI gets access to Black Magic which trends with the mudra effects. But in terms of the story itself in XIV it did kind of come out of left field to suddenly go that path after the Rogue questline.

I agree that Rogue is really good. I enjoy its rotation without all the Ninjutsu.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I'm very much of this mindset. I am looking forward to seeing what Viper will bring to the table and if it can fulfill the rogue archetype that Ninja has completely left behind.

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I think that Ninja's rotation will become more modern (aka easier, since it's one of the most distracting right now). I think that Viper will then just be the same rotation mostly but with different animations.

Unless they drastically reverse job design to be like Stormblood, but so far there isn't any evidence they will.

Same with Lancer. You go from guardians of the black shroud to dragon killers.
And Marauder. You go from pirates to berserk-prone fighters

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Originally Posted by BarghastTimes

I DO NOT GET IT.

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Its a homage to Final Fantasy 1, where Thief evolves into Ninja, that's it, that's all you need to get.

Fwiw, they are making Viper to address the complaint of Rogue to Ninja, although its dual swords, leather long coats and flash stepping, so its not any less weeb.

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Originally Posted by RaideDuku

Rogue (well, Thief, but Yoshi-P thought that had too many negative connotations for our good-aligned WoL) turned into Ninja in the original Final Fantasy, so it makes perfect sense, in terms of Final Fantasy. Totally makes sense that people would've wanted a more straight melee role, though. I am glad that Viper is coming out for folks that wanted more hacky-slashy then boomy-bangy.

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This is a bit of a myth. By that I mean people have been adding and changing what was said beyond what we can find direct quotes for.

They said that a city state would not have a Thief because that doesn't make sense for a city state to host, but they might have an espionage like thing. The last time this came up, prior to reaper coming out, I challenged this (Thief too evil for WoL), and no one was able to provide any quotes stating Thief is too evil for WoL. And I only found the statement on city state lore. On top of that we were stuck with Class -> job, where now we just go straight to jobs.

Until people can prove it, I'm fairly certain this is just corruption of old knowledge, and or a mistranslation. Beyond that, think about the 'WoL' (main good guy characters) who have literally been Thief jobs, and that it was a main job in previous games. It would be a strong statement for Yoshida to be like "Thieves suck, they're immoral and I've never heard of my own FF games, or Robin Hood, so I'm not going to do it, but I'll let you be an assassin job, killing is good!". That would be just an awful take. Essentially they thought they could get a two in one, like Ranger and Bard, and then stated that Rogue IS Thief, there is quotes for that, but that they didn't call it Thief because Limsa wouldn't host Thieves, but they would host Rogues.

So people, as far as I can tell, have corrupted all that to just say "WoL couldn't be a thief cause it was evil". I've found quotes for both the city state statement and the Rogue IS Thief statement. There is not "WoL couldn't be it because it's evil" last time I looked with decade old restrictions on google (when I challenged the person spreading this, I also did my own research, no one, including myself, provided any statement that supported that direct statement). Which again is a statement that makes no sense anyways (WoL couldn't be a Thief job), at that time, and especially, especially now (Thief on a scale of good to bad would no where near be at the end of 'naughty' that we have).


Also I agree on an earlier comment that states Viper is probably the answer to what was lost in Thief / Rogue to Ninja (unfortunately this means pure Thief job fans will have a split, but if you just want the general nimble imagery without the Ninjitsu- you'll probably like it). It's basically Zidane (FFIX) without the Mug skill lol (Ninja has it.. :3).

I've always wanted them to go back and slowly give the classes their own playstlye. I'd like an Archer class that doesn't deal with songs. I'd like the Arcanist Dot class without summons. I'd like Pugilist with all it's positionals ect. Almost double the jobs whilst not relying on coming up with new ones.

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Originally Posted by Yuella

Same with Lancer. You go from guardians of the black shroud to dragon killers.
And Marauder. You go from pirates to berserk-prone fighters

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Gladiators go from pit fighters to holy knights, archers go from shooting arrows to magic songs. Only the casters really follow the theme directly, they just go from caster to caster with FORBIDDEN KNOWLEDGE! Scholar is the only caster job in ARR that isn't some flavor of illegal.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Gladiators go from pit fighters to holy knights, archers go from shooting arrows to magic songs. Only the casters really follow the theme directly, they just go from caster to caster with FORBIDDEN KNOWLEDGE! Scholar is the only caster job in ARR that isn't some flavor of illegal.

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Tbh the Paladins aren't that holy in the lore other than visual of their magic. They're literally a personal royal guards, more knight than templar. It's just that Knight didn't sound as cool for a job as Paladin.

Honestly, they could just have Rogue as alternative to Ninja, that plays the exact same but having different animations would be a really fair compromise for me at least.

But I get it, even in Tactics, you needed thief to upgrade to ninja which was better in every way.
They used to have a lot more rogue themed skills back in the day but almost everything got replaced like the kiss of the viper venom stances...

I'm going through with something like this with ARC. Dissonance I mean.

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Originally Posted by Heroman3003

Many people were. I imagine that's one of biggest reasons why next scouting job is gonna be Viper, basically continuing with rogue aesthetics, but without the stupid ninjutsu stuff.

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For what it's worth, to optimistic Viper players..... my gut says 100% it's going to be a Sword Art Online ripoff, same as NIN is just Naruto.