Update to Blacksmith class

Personally I'd like to see an update for which is the way blacksmithing is done. Currently there lacks any customization to weapons that could lead to unique one of kind pieces. There's just a preset list of things that you can make and lacks any creativity. I get that should be a starting point but as one progresses to higher levels though they should be able to forge there own unique weapons and gear. This would allow players to set themselves apart from other players who picked up the blacksmith class.

Its an interesting idea. Its also not really compatible with the way the item system seems to be set up in this game - nor actually super feasible for an MMO in general. With the way stats are balanced in this game, they could only ever really let you customize a weapon to be worse. If you could make your weapon better then the alternative, then everyone would and your weapon is no longer better. In addition, all the evidence we have is that the game doesnt seem equipped to support dynamic item creation. Adding even 2 or 3 variables you could personalize on your crafted items would potentially add thousands of extra entries to the database for every patch. Thats a lot of extra work for the item team, and if you want differing appearances then the art team now has to add possibly hundreds of variants per patch as well. Again, and interesting but likely not possible idea. For better or worse, the way this game is set up to allow "uniqueness" is via the glamour system. Your dragoon might have the same spear that i do(for stat purposes and balancing), but we have hundreds of combinations of appearance and dye to set ourselves apart.

this is not an MMO that allows for unique gear. again time and time again, the ONLY way to set yourself apart in this game is and always has been - PLAYER SKILL.

Considering, as mentioned, they already allow some form of appearance alterations due to glamor system I see no reason that the one forging the weapon shouldn't be able to dictate what the original look will turn out like. Stats would be the tricky part. However it shouldn't an issue for a "master blacksmith" to tweak stats by adding a different material or a blend of materials to the mix; or for them to be able to add an extra slot or two for materia, especially if said blacksmith has more skill than another blacksmith. Just because the game currently doesn't allow for unique gear doesn't mean that they couldn't add it to some extent. Also, to claim a player has skill and refuses to see that blacksmithing is a skill and an even more important one than an individual player skill is lacking in knowledge. It'd be like saying that the strongest person can face the weakest person on equal footing if they wore the same gear into battle. Or even better yet a mage could beat a warrior in a fist fight if they could wield the same gear. I don't know, I guess that I just don't care for equitable stats without the work being put in. Especially in a game that has the potential for so much more.

Thing is, I wouldn't really consider any players to be a "master blacksmith." We're pulling an anvil out of our pocket and banging on things.

That's kinda like CUL being considered some master chef, with a hotplate and a cutting board.

Like i said, its an interesting idea. From a lore perspective its understandable. From a programming and game balance perspective? Not gonna happen in this game. Your idea(add ____ to recipe to change ____) would mean throwing out the entire crafting system they built for the game and building a new one. Dynamic variables in stats would mean throwing out the entire item system we have and building a new one. That would be a mountain of work for a change that would be poorly received by a lot of the community, and wouldnt necessarily make the game any better. That isnt the type of change you undertake a decade+ into a games lifespan. Those are the types of ideas you design your game around from the beginning. And as for "I see no reason that the one forging the weapon shouldn't be able to dictate what the original look will turn out like" - that IS the glam system. Except it isnt limited to crafted weapons, and if i buy a sword from you i dont have to stick with your idea of what it should look like.

Sounds like you're satisfied with this elementary level system and that's fine. However, I'm ready for growth, for the next level. FFXIV changes everytime they expand upon the game. They wouldn't nor should they get rid of the entire introduction level crafting system of a class or its classes levels. I truly like the way they introduce the classes skills in such a basic way. However in an expansion they could add a feature that allows for higher risk and reward. Now for the Glamor system, it doesn't work on all items and I see no reason why the one forging the item couldn't have some control over if their item is one of the items that glam can be used on or not. Or they could take it a step farther and have it as a type dispel magic. Now there's a thought, mages figured out the spell dispel from watching a crafter crafting something that the glamor system couldn't be used on. As for the master bit, all I'm meaning is that if a beginner level 1 makes an item it shouldn't be the same quality as if a max level made the same item.

Satisfied doesnt come into it. Im realistic about the level and type of changes that the devs would consider for the game. I have a basic understanding of the framework of the item and crafting systems they built. And i understand that your idea is not compatible with what they have. So to add it they would either have to make 2 brand new systems and then maintain all 4 of them going forward(so that old items/crafting continued to function while your new ones would work going forward) or they would have to throw out the baby and bathwater while building your 2 new systems(with this version also requiring reworking all existing items to fit the new system). You seem to underestimate the amount of work this would be, while you seem to overestimate how much it would "improve" the game. Most of the players would either never notice or would see the change as a negative.

Going back to glams, i am unaware of any items you cant glam. There are some items you cant use AS a glam, and there are rules(cant glam a higher level item onto a lower one for instance). But you should always be able to apply a glam to your gear(once it is unlocked of course). And a master already makes a better sword then a beginner. A beginner uses simple materials and nothing else. A master uses advanced materials and advanced techniques(applying reisui/alkahest for instance). Anything beyond that is a balancing issue.

I don't know why you think that it would be taken negatively by most players because all the players I've talked to in the game liked at least in part the changes I'm suggesting. Though they all say that they don't think that the devs will implement them. Perhaps you could give suggestions on how this could be added without being such a headache for the programmers. Though as a customer I have no reason to stop requesting for things that would make the game more interesting to me and those that I talk to in the game. So they need to make 2 extra programs to add this feature. Cool! I hear possibilities through your nahsaying. So, players would need to spend more time in the game learning these new features to keep on top of things. Awesome, more time and chances to meet more players that share interest in the possibilities of crafting. So we need to buy the extra features. So what, I've paid to get the game in the first place and I see no reason why I wouldn't pay for the extras. Especially if they added features I'm into. I don't see the problem just the possibilities of what could be. High risk with high rewards isn't for naysayers. Naysayers play by caution and wouldn't risk hard to come by items for something that could end in failure. Especially if it's only going to give a few extra status points but I would. Even if such items needed were only dropped by a boss monster that only appeared once a year. It's a gamble and one worth taking in my opinion.

no it's not worth taking.

That's your opinion and as I said earlier it is worth it to me and those I've talked to in the game.

you have a clear confirmation bias and you're choosing to only listen to those that agree with you.

Sadly, the game doesn't really allow this to happen due to job balancing (among other factors). I've played games where the crafter could imbue a weapon with the equivalent of a poison DoT (small chance to land) or a damage proc (equivalent of an OCD potency of 100 to 130). Or a breastplate that could be imbued with a regen upon taking damage or a light heal (the equivalent of 5000 hp in today's game).

However, none of this will happen. Because either SE would have to assume that ALL players would go with the DoT and the regen and balance enemies/bosses for that... or they'd have to make the ability to imbue this gear either very difficult (expert recipe level) or rare (exceedingly rare components). I don't see either of those happening. They've gone down the path of making everything pretty cookie cutter due to their need to balance the game.

And if we are going to follow SE's history of balancing everything... they'd have to give something to every crafter to balance it out as well.

DrWhoo2010 I've not been only listening to those that agree with me. Otherwise I wouldn't have been responding to the 3 of y'all this whole time. Frizze is the only one out of y'all that has come close to making me to thinking otherwise about an upgrade needing to be done with the crafting classes. The only reason I hadn't admitted defeat is because their main concern was the programmer having a challenge with the project. Which implies more time and money. Hence my comment about willing to pay for an expansion that allowed it. I have talked to multiple players in the game and all have stated that they'd like to see some form of change to a crafting class. Even while reading dspguy's reply one can tell that they too would like to see some form of change. Even though they don't think that it will come to be. Anyways, I stress blacksmith because it's the only crafting class I've got. However, that being said, dspguy, I agree with pretty much everything you've said other than "none of this will happen" part. I mean if enough players that agree with the fact that there should be some update to the crafting classes, then they will implement some form of upgrade to them. Though you may be correct because on this forum it's the only place I've ran into so many naysayers. So few on here seem to respond like yourself with the desire for the change even when they don't expect it to actually happen. Some might not just because of not liking the feeling of straight out rejection without an explanation as to why their idea wouldn't work in the game. Personally I would prefer that if they did do an upgrade that they'd increase the difficulty of achieving success along with exceedingly rare components hence my comment about drops that appear after beating bosses that only appear once a year. Though I'd also think adding in having to meet certain conditions should be a requirement as well. Oh, and to make it so that not everyone is guaranteed to receive the same items making it so that players have to work together to get the needed materials for the advanced crafts.

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Originally Posted by DesiredStart

I don't know why you think that it would be taken negatively by most players because all the players I've talked to in the game liked at least in part the changes I'm suggesting. Though they all say that they don't think that the devs will implement them. Perhaps you could give suggestions on how this could be added without being such a headache for the programmers. Though as a customer I have no reason to stop requesting for things that would make the game more interesting to me and those that I talk to in the game. So they need to make 2 extra programs to add this feature. Cool! I hear possibilities through your nahsaying. So, players would need to spend more time in the game learning these new features to keep on top of things. Awesome, more time and chances to meet more players that share interest in the possibilities of crafting. So we need to buy the extra features. So what, I've paid to get the game in the first place and I see no reason why I wouldn't pay for the extras. Especially if they added features I'm into. I don't see the problem just the possibilities of what could be. High risk with high rewards isn't for naysayers. Naysayers play by caution and wouldn't risk hard to come by items for something that could end in failure. Especially if it's only going to give a few extra status points but I would. Even if such items needed were only dropped by a boss monster that only appeared once a year. It's a gamble and one worth taking in my opinion.

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They like ideas until they see the actual outcome after implementation.

Such ideas are great - in single player games and occasionally co-op games. They lead to headaches for developers in MMORPGs, which is why you see such systems end up phased out over time if they were introduced. No player wants to feel forced into making certain choices because other players won't invite them to a party because they aren't geared "optimally".

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

They like ideas until they see the actual outcome after implementation.

Such ideas are great - in single player games and occasionally co-op games. They lead to headaches for developers in MMORPGs, which is why you see such systems end up phased out over time if they were introduced. No player wants to feel forced into making certain choices because other players won't invite them to a party because they aren't geared "optimally".

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You make a good point. It would require players to be more open minded and to make strategic decisions regarding parties. That could cause issues for some players. Though I believe a possible fix for that would be to offer incentives for party members that invited others that weren't geared with the higher quality gear. Kind of like they do with the dailies where a certain class is needed. While I still hope that some form of upgrade happens to the crafting classes, I will yield defeat, overwhelmingly due to the your point on what could lead to an in game rift between players. I don't want to see that side of people in this game. That being said, it is not due to your part about the developers or Frizze's part about the programmers so called headaches due to the project. The way I look at it is that they choose that line of work and know that with it come challenging projects like I'm suggesting. I believe in them and what they could achieve should they give it their all. I believe they could make it work. They've done an amazing job with the game so far with all the expansions that they've done and whatnot. Though I don't know if defeat was the correct word to use, it's just that there's no denying that you've got a solid point on the possible rift it could cause between players.

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Originally Posted by DesiredStart

You make a good point. It would require players to be more open minded and to make strategic decisions regarding parties. That could cause issues for some players. Though I believe a possible fix for that would be to offer incentives for party members that invited others that weren't geared with the higher quality gear. Kind of like they do with the dailies where a certain class is needed. While I still hope that some form of upgrade happens to the crafting classes, I will yield defeat, overwhelmingly due to the your point on what could lead to an in game rift between players. I don't want to see that side of people in this game. That being said, it is not due to your part about the developers or Frizze's part about the programmers so called headaches due to the project. The way I look at it is that they choose that line of work and know that with it come challenging projects like I'm suggesting. I believe in them and what they could achieve should they give it their all. I believe they could make it work. They've done an amazing job with the game so far with all the expansions that they've done and whatnot. Though I don't know if defeat was the correct word to use, it's just that there's no denying that you've got a solid point on the possible rift it could cause between players.

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We weren't competing so no need to think of it as defeat. It's more like brainstorming, where ideas get thrown out for consideration and others analyze the ideas for flaws and drawbacks.

I agree the developers are technically capable of designing a weapon customization system if they wanted to. What they aren't able to do is create a social engineering system that would get a player base to "play nice" if such a system exists.