Tanking 101

I can't believe I have to write this but a string of bad dungeon runs have convinced me that it is needed.


How to be a good tank

Five simple rules for being one of the best tanks in the game.

1. Stance. Without it, you aren't tanking. You will not keep enmity off the healer or the dps because your base damage simply isn't enough to counter either healing enmity or the damage that a DPS can pour out.

2. AOEs. As long as there is more than one enemy on the field, hit those AOEs like you are getting paid for every time you hit the button. I don't care if your single target attacks do more damage, they only do more damage to one enemy. If there are three or more enemies, your AOEs will do more total damage (take all the damage you are doing at once and add it together - doing 100 damage to three enemies or 300 total damage is always better than doing 200 damage to just one enemy.) But even if there are only two enemies, stay on that AOE. If you aren't doing damage to an enemy you aren't keeping the enmity on it.

3. Don't pull more than you can survive. Dying slows the run down. Dying repeatedly slows it down a LOT. Pulling fewer groups lets your healer help with DPS if he's not having to keep you alive with every spell he casts. If you notice your health dropping fast, you are probably pulling more than the healer and your own mits can keep up with. Try pulling one or two fewer groups until the healer can comfortably keep you at around half health or so.

4. Stay out of AOEs and if there are repeating stationary AOEs like the crystals in Dzemael Darkhold, pull the critters away from them. The less work your healer has to do to keep you alive, the better. The last thing you want to see is all your mits on cooldown and the healer out of mp just because you won't work the mechanics. And letting the enemies stay inside the range of stationary AOEs means that the healer has to split his focus between keeping you alive and keeping the melee DPS alive. Less work for the healer = better run all around.

5. Rotate your mitigations. You can't keep one up all the time, but try to keep one up as much as possible during combat. Again, the less work the healer has to do to keep you alive, the better for everyone. If the healer actually has a chance to help DPS a little, even better. Remember, the healer casting damage spells is the same thing as the healer casting heals or shields, it is preventing future damage by ensuring the enemies die faster so they hit you less.


Yes, I know I left out interrupts and stuns and when to use them, when to use shirk to help swap aggro to the secondary tank, learning the specifics on individual fights, and the rare exceptions to the above rules. All of that is Tanking 201, the advanced class. Using these simple rules will make you a better tank than around 90% of the tanks I have encountered. Learning the advanced stuff will make you a better tank than 90% of the remaining 10%.

DRK raises hand
DRK:"Is Dark Mind a wall to wall pull mitigation?"

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Originally Posted by Kreyd

DRK raises Hand
DRK:"Is Dark Mind a wall to wall pull mitigation?"

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Only if everything there is using magic and only magic... or, as I like to say... No.

Good start. The funny thing about number 3 is healers and dps like to just run ahead and pull wall to wall even if the tank doesn’t want to.

Edit your UI:
a) Scale up buffs and place them in middel so you see them easly.
b) Separate the [enemy cast bar], and also scale it up.
The castbar often gives clues about incoming dmg --> AOE/TBS - inc abilties that are interruptible :)

Dying and wiping is part of learning. Complaining about non-tank players pulling ahead of the tank achieves nothing. Man/Woman/Catperson/Lizardperson/furry up and pull. Everyone will adjust.

For number 3, l will slow down if l die. I like to cheese arr dungeons, And You can make a big pull in them. It is just fun to make big pulls because there are so many mobs that l can't even see myself. If l see a healer, especially a sage, with a crown, You bet l will pull the entire hall in the starting area in wanderer's palace. That's like 20 mobs. Obviously l will use hallowed ground in that pull then slap on all mitigations.

Back when 2.0 came out, some ARR dungeons were very difficult to pull wall-to-wall. SE's has mostly addressed that in future expansion dungeons as well as going back and reworking ARR dungeons. For the most part, the party's toolset is designed for these pulls. Between the tank's mitigation, healer's kit and DPS's AOE burst damage, it is expected to wall-to-wall pull. And frankly, if you die... then you die. The time lost in that ONE dungeon might be small, but the more skilled players the server has, the faster everything is completed as players learn.

On point
2. the end point is just kind of incorrect, You can keep aggro on 2-3 mobs while single targeting (if this is a damage gain) as long as u switch targets, the enmity multiplier is 10x its very easy to single target but keep aggro up on two-three enemies

3. Don't pull more then you can survive? I guess...? if we're talking about 90 content then it's pretty hard to die in a wall to wall pull, while in earlier content you should be careful with how much you pull Ig. But I think you should always try to pull large as possible but if you wipe then take more consideration with pulls is generally a better way of doing it, otherwise you'll always be scared to bite off more then you can chew with pulls... which leads to tanks barely pulling and only playing safe which is a waste of time.

4. Sometimes its better to stand in AOE's for better up time, Unironically i can just heal myself up pretty easily on tanks like war/pld/gnb you can even time tbn for it on DRK and for most healers expending one of your resources to heal is always free, I don't recommend standing in AOE's if you don't know what it does (some can give stuns or doom debuffs which wastes the healers time, which you should avoid), if you don't feel safe doing so, you can move out and back in without any loss. Theirs certainly situations where standing in AOE's can be optimal though as they don't actually pose much threat. I don't recommend you eat vuns actively if avoidable though, for most players its generally better to just avoid Aoe's if they don't know what they're doing, this point is very dependent but i can agree that newer tanks should avoid AOE's 100% of the time

5. Rotating mitigations generally is a good advice, but most tanks can get away with 2 mitigations at the same time at high level pulls, You have Arms legnth, Rampart, 30%, Short CD, Invuls, reprisal, A bunch of unique extra CD's with each tank, You don't really need anything other then ur short tank CD for bosses as the damage is generally very low, In raids/trials this point applies more unless you need to kitchen sink, also remember to help your CO-Tank with mitigations as that's something I don't see a lot with new tanks.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

Back when 2.0 came out, some ARR dungeons were very difficult to pull wall-to-wall. SE's has mostly addressed that in future expansion dungeons as well as going back and reworking ARR dungeons. For the most part, the party's toolset is designed for these pulls. Between the tank's mitigation, healer's kit and DPS's AOE burst damage, it is expected to wall-to-wall pull. And frankly, if you die... then you die. The time lost in that ONE dungeon might be small, but the more skilled players the server has, the faster everything is completed as players learn.

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Also the complete lack of AOE Combos for WAR and PLD in 2.0. Hell PLD only had Flash...which did zero damage. Scorn was trash as it only used ASAP to generate agro, but it wasn't enough if you had a BLM that would unload ASAP or a DRG dropping bombs.

2.0 was just another animal for tanking all together...and was more akin to WoW vanilla. Tab targeting to next mob to maximize agro (change mob for Rage of Halone combo)...WAR was just as bad as Overpower would WRECK your TP...then you would be standing there with no resources to DPS...to keep gaining agro. 2 over power MAX...then tab target between GCD's and bring Overpower in every so often.

2.0 tanking was....pretty rough tbh....Agro was based off of Tank Damage vs. stance on or off what we have now. I would build agro with shield oath...then change to sword oath after I felt comfortable with agro...but I took 20% more damage while in sword oath...so you had to be careful not to kill your self or OOM your healer.

I would also add:

-8 man tanking vs. 4 Man tanking and knowing when you are the OT or MT. Typically the norm is who turns stance on first or has the highest HP. Unless a tank says otherwise i.e. "Can I MT?"

-Know what each tank buster does...

• Invlun timings
• Cone/Cleave (and how large)
• Line Tank Buster
• Shared
• Swap
• Double Swap
• Either/or (random buster on each tank flare or point blank and vice versa)
• Stack
• added DOT/Bleed
• Debuff with phsyical damage increased
• Debuff with elemental damage increased
• Debuff with Magic damage increased

-Getting used to tank positioning for DPS players, and moving a boss for positioning with max melee in mind. Moving a boss while DPSing or stutter stepping. (this takes a long time to master since each savage boss is different)

-Knowing when a Boss will go mid or teleport. This helps with always being max melee or using your ranged attack when you can't reach the boss. Remember ABC. (Always be casting)

- Reprisal and Party Utility mitigations/heals. USE USE USE these as sometimes it can mean a clear or 2-3 deaths because sometimes those savage raid wides can just wipe out squishy targets without that added mitigation.

-Communicate with your MT/OT and work with them. The tanks are kind of on a small team...and sometimes called Tank-Bromance. Those tank busters hurt...and tanks need to be in sync so as not to kill each other or other raid members...So take the time to hash out party utility mitigations and reprisal rotation.

-Watch the agro bars....I have seen times when a DPS is in second and that tells me the OT doesn't have their stance on. Or maybe they turned their stance off on purpose for a reason...always be aware of what your OT is doing so you can stay in sync...and keep each other in check. Remember your a small team.

2. At certain level, some tanks gains dps to perform single target rotation when there are only 2 enemies around. It's probably not a huge gain but you'll be fine so long you swap targets. A DPS needs to do roughly 1000 - 2000 or more potency worth of damage to for every tank's 100 potency in order to steal enmity under tank stance. If a DPS manage to pull enmity off the tank, then somebody's gotta stop watching their netflix.

3. In spirit I agree. Not so much in practice however because you really never know how far can you go until you give it a try. Speaking from healer PoV here, if you keep babying healers---especially if they are the notorious Freecure/Medica II Mage/Benefic II Mages---they will never learn that they have all other existing tools to sustain their tank. A Cure I/Physick/Benefic I/Diagnosis Mage can keep you alive with those lv4 Spell through any wall pulls outside exceptions like Mt.Gulg first mega 5 pack pull so long you're tanking properly. Let that sink in.

Not to mention that healer's dps potential skyrockets in AoE encounter. Any healer worth of their salt WILL outdamages good amount of red DPSes in DF duties very easily. So, pull more > let them reap the benefit of their powerful AoE potential > let those obscure healing tools be used instead of collecting dusts > pulls dies faster.

4. Depends on which AoE you're up against. It's a good habit to build: see red carpet? Move out. But as a tank you have what people call "tank privilege". This is especially true as your tank & healer get synced closer to cap level thanks to their monstrous sustenance that they can provide. Did you remember some of your tools are sitting on the bench collecting dust? Perhaps you can think of 'that one' mechanic/AoE that you can just cheese. Go ahead and do that. Healer have $h!tton of those tools collecting dusts on the corner. They'll be happy to finally do something.

5. In general, yes. But in dungeon runs, it's generally preferred to just save your longer cooldowns for wall pulls because that's where most of the damage a tank will receive. Using the 90s ones early on a boss encounter because it'll come back up when that boss dies, but your short, auxiliary cooldowns are best used here to deal with tankbusters and whatnot. Those are enough. The amount of time I have to rub my temple when I see a PLD pop up Sentinel when the boss is at 5% HP just because the boss is casting tankbuster could probably make me a rich man if I get 3 dollar each time that happens. No, just save it for the upcoming pulls. We also regenerate 10% HP/MP every 3s outside combat, remember? It's fine if the tank finishes at sub 50% HP. Nothing's gonna kill them right off the bat.

3. If I'm playing Sage and you're not doing full size pulls, there are five or six cooldowns that I'm not even using because you're not taking enough damage. If you're half pulling I'm probably keeping you alive just by spamming my AoE attack. Maybe one cooldown. Really. You can survive full size pulls.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

5. In general, yes. But in dungeon runs, it's generally preferred to just save your longer cooldowns for wall pulls because that's where most of the damage a tank will receive. Using the 90s ones early on a boss encounter because it'll come back up when that boss dies, but your short, auxiliary cooldowns are best used here to deal with tankbusters and whatnot. Those are enough. The amount of time I have to rub my temple when I see a PLD pop up Sentinel when the boss is at 5% HP just because the boss is casting tankbuster could probably make me a rich man if I get 3 dollar each time that happens. No, just save it for the upcoming pulls. We also regenerate 10% HP/MP every 3s outside combat, remember? It's fine if the tank finishes at sub 50% HP. Nothing's gonna kill them right off the bat.

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This literally made me cringe also...as PLD main tank (used to be WAR). Sentinel in dungeons is so damn useful on w2w. I don't think I have ever used sentinel on a boss...like ever...
Holy Sheltron is literally the same thing....and in a tank buster situation is MUCH more efficient to use for the single hit TB as it's only 4 seconds at 30% then reduces to 15%. You don't need 15s of 30% mitigation for a single hit tank buster...healers have so much in their kit to insta heal me to 100%. Sentinel is better served as a mitigation for 10 mobs chomping on your ass.

Holy Sheltron is probably the strongest mitigation in the game imo....but i'm biased. 50 oath for a on demand sentinel is ridiculous, and a clemency level HoT to boot.

TBN is great but MP on DRK is precious as you have to decide to DPS or mitigate with your MP. Also you have to hope it breaks.
Bloodwhetting is great, but I got better return while coupling it with my burst. Great skill and mit...but MUCH more ridiculous during burst.
Heart of Corundum is amazing and would be a STRONG 2nd place, but if you don't hit 50% HP it just kind of misses the mark. Still on demand Excog is nice though.

Holy Sheltron is just...fire and forget....no gimmick...no hoops...just use it and enjoy 30% mit for 4 seconds 15% for another 4 seconds and 1000 potency heal over 12 seconds (250 every server tick). I have used Holy Sheltron literally by itself for tank busters in savage and it was enough mitigation. Tier 2 and Tier 3 pushed me away from doing this as SE added bleeds/dots that last FOREVER. Which is fine...I like the challenge and healers really have to plan ahead for every tank buster...which is better then mashing a single button.

Tanks really have to know their mits and which is used for certain situations.

I hate to break this to you but technically, the first 4 seconds of Holy Sheltron != Sentinel.

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Originally Posted by rawker

I hate to break this to you but technically, the first 4 seconds of Holy Sheltron != Sentinel.

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Correct statement, for anyone confused - mitigation is calculated multiplicatively, not additively.

Math using rest-damage modifiers:
1 * 0.85 [Holy Sheltron] * 0.85 [Knight's Resolve] = 0.7225 ~ 0.72 rounded -> 72% of damage remaining -> 28% mitigation

So while technically not 30% like Sentinel, it is within 10% of relative margin to it with the 28% Holy Sheltron + Knight's Resolve provide - only at ultra-lethal hits with damage variations swinging hard in either direction will it matter between those two.

ADDED: If this was pre-6.3 Holy Sheltron before the readdition of Bulwark and changing Sheltron's and Holy Sheltron's base effect from 100% block rate to -15% damage taken, it would have been 32%, making it actually stronger than Sentinel while effectively deactivating your random passive mitigation by making it active.

1 * 0.80 [Block] * 0.85 [Knight's Resolve] = 0.68 -> 68% of damage remaining -> 32% mitigation

Wall to wall or don't go in at all.-Roegadyn

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Originally Posted by Anienai

Wall to wall or don't go in at all.-Roegadyn

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This. Please for the love of god, don't queue and do 1 pull at a time. If you want to, go do trusts/duty support. It already takes a long time to queue as dps. At the very least, make the wait bearable.

Good rule for a tank don't pull wall to wall if you're under geared. This put way too much stress on the healer.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Good rule for a tank don't pull wall to wall if you're under geared. This put way too much stress on the healer.

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They claim to have enough healing voodoo nevertheless. There's no reason not to bully tank pull wall-to-wall.
I don't necessarily agree with this post.

You start a dungeon with all your cooldowns available, so your first pull should be a wall to wall. Even when the healer can't keep up you should have enough tools available in this first pull to stay alive. Examine the situation. How many cooldowns did you use? How fast died the enemies? Was the healer stressed out or was he dpsing all along? Depending on the performance of your party you can decide how big the next pulls should be.

You DO NOT have to wall to wall if you are unable to or you feel scared to.
People here saying don't q if you can't.. They didn't have to que either. If they (or you) leave, it's a 30min wait to q again (and dps are easy to replace)

Now, you should try wall to wall. Few dungeons can be dangerous if you wall to wall. Watch out and learn.

I wrote this for any new person whom tanking and only see elitist writing. :)

I would add "Ask the healer if they feel confident about big pulls". Seriously, if you got a person who is still leveling healing or trying to learn a new class, they may not quite have the skills yet to handle big pulls.

If you only ever do w2w pulls when your healer is "confident" then that healer will never be, because they'll never have to get out of their comfort zone and never realize that it's actually not hard to heal.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

If you only ever do w2w pulls when your healer is "confident" then that healer will never be, because they'll never have to get out of their comfort zone and never realize that it's actually not hard to heal.

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I've had plenty of healers respond that big pulls were OK when I was tanking, and
I've responded OK to plenty of tanks asking about big pulls when I was healing.
So your use of "never" is hyperbole.

The single biggest factor that matters in wall-to-wall pulls is total party dps. Tanks generally don't die while taking mobs to their endpoint. They die when tanks and healers exhaust their combined defensive resources due to substandard dps.

As long as one person on your team is capable of hard carrying that total party dps count, then you're safe. If that person is you, you don't need to ask anyone else.

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Originally Posted by Bun_Vivant

I've had plenty of healers respond that big pulls were OK when I was tanking, and
I've responded OK to plenty of tanks asking about big pulls when I was healing.
So your use of "never" is hyperbole.

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And you missed the entire point.
It's about making healers who aren't "confident" try it anyway so they can see that it's easy as hell.
If you always only let them heal single pulls they'll never gain that confidence.