Tomestone Lockout

I know this has been discussed forever, but I think we are at a point that the either the tomestone cap needs increased or the cost of equipment needs lowered. It takes too long to gear up jobs.

At the very least it should be higher in every odd patch. These are supposed to be catch up patches and it still takes so unbelievably long to gear a single job let alone several. There is no reason the 900 tomes cap should not be in place for every odd patch at least.

Anyone else have any thoughts or ideas? Especially with two new jobs coming in Dawntrail.

I think it’s fine because you can get a relic (665) and full 650 gear without having to spend a single comedy tomestone within an hour from a new job reaching 90

650 is plenty for everything in the game, if you are doing savage prog this late 650 is plenty for entry and you’ll naturally accumulate more gear, if it’s casual 650 is way above the ilvl for everything anyway so the difference between 650 and 660 is mostly just where on the agro chart you sit

i wish they would make the low level junk cheaper.

we only have so many slots in our armoury chest, glamour chest, armorioerorororoeroror however you spell it and it's annoying that 2,000 tomes isn't enough to fully deck out a level 50 character when we're about to hit level 100 in the next expansion.

it's not like most of the tomestone gear are worth glamming to begin with. they're always a catastrophe of tacky overdesign.

As someone who likes a lot of those Anabaseios weapon glams, being told that I need 4 but can only get 1 blade a week sucks ass and it's obviously done to keep people around for 4 weeks aka 1 month aka 15 dollars of subtime. They won't remove the cap until we're so close to Dawntrail that most people will just stay subbed for that. It's a very cynical model but it obviously works for them.
I agree with you though, OP. In a perfect world where the video game model isn't dictated by appeasing greasy fat greedy shareholders who demand INFINITE UNENDING GROWTH, we'd just have this content unlocked so we could enjoy the game and grind to our heart's content in Yoshi P's maze. Instead the game forces you to slow to its preferred glacial pace and thinks you'll stay subscribed for that. Or, more realistically, they just hold your house that you painstakingly, lovingly, decorated hostage.

It's why when I bring up adding more events in the downtime and people shoot it down saying they don't want "manipulative events designed to keep them playing" in the game, I just laugh in their faces and stop talking to them. The game's already full of that crap.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

As someone who likes a lot of those Anabaseios weapon glams, being told that I can basically get 1 blade a week sucks ass and it's obviously done to keep people around for 4 weeks aka 1 month aka 15 dollars of subtime. They won't remove the cap until we're so close to Dawntrail that most people will just stay subbed for that. It's a very cynical model but it obviously works for them.
I agree with you though, OP. In a perfect world where the video game model isn't dictated by appeasing greasy fat greedy shareholders who demand INFINITE UNENDING GROWTH, we'd just have this content unlocked so we could enjoy the game and grind to our heart's content in Yoshi P's maze. Instead the game forces you to slow to its preferred glacial pace and thinks you'll stay subscribed for that. Or, more realistically, they just hold your house that you painstakingly, lovingly, decorated hostage.

It's why when I bring up adding more events in the downtime and people shoot it down saying they don't want "manipulative events designed to keep them playing" in the game, I just laugh in their faces and stop talking to them. The game's already full of that crap.

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You can get one weapon a week in savage.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

You can get one weapon a week in savage.

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Fair, the arbitrary limit still sucks though, considering there's about to be nothing to do/look forward to until summer.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

You can get one weapon a week in savage.

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You "can". It's unrealistic. The expected value is something like (1/19)(1)+(7/19)(0)+(11/19)(1/8)+1/8 weapon each week, which adds up to an expected value of 1 weapon every 4 weeks. This assumes that nobody already has the weapon for their job, that everyone will Need on any weapon they can, and that everyone will Greed on any weapon that they cannot Need. In practice this value will be slightly higher because some people will have the weapon already and some will be uninterested in off-job weapons; however it is still far less than 1 weapon a week.

You're not supposed to get max level gear on everything. 650 is plenty for anything that's not a savage, and its completely unrealistic to be able to play every single job well enough to do savage with them.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

You're not supposed to get max level gear on everything. 650 is plenty for anything that's not a savage, and its completely unrealistic to be able to play every single job well enough to do savage with them.

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They'll argue it's "catch up gear" even tho they don't plan to run any high end content on their alts and just afk in limsa.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

You're not supposed to get max level gear on everything. 650 is plenty for anything that's not a savage, and its completely unrealistic to be able to play every single job well enough to do savage with them.

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Originally Posted by Troxbark

They'll argue it's "catch up gear" even tho they don't plan to run any high end content on their alts and just afk in limsa.

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Why does the reason matter? It's the end of the expansion. People should be allowed to just farm whatever the hell they want at this point. It's not like CBU3 is busting in here with better shit to do.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

Why does the reason matter? It's the end of the expansion. People should be allowed to just farm whatever the hell they want at this point. It's not like CBU3 is busting in here with better shit to do.

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Because holding your sub by artificially restricting how much gear you can get (whether you need it or not) is a really easy way to retain players this deep in an expansion

But I’m also on the side of the gear literally doesn’t matter anyway

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Because holding your sub by artificially restricting how much gear you can get (whether you need it or not) is a really easy way to retain players this deep in an expansion

But I’m also on the side of the gear literally doesn’t matter anyway

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Yeah I know that's why cbu3 does it. I even wrote about that earlier in the thread. I'm asking these people why they're hung up on other players' reasoning for just wanting to farm tomes during a time when there's nothing else to do anyway. "Oh they're just gonna idle in limsa with it" yeah? And? Who the hell cares?

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

Yeah I know that's why cbu3 does it. I even wrote about that earlier in the thread. I'm asking these people why they're hung up on other players' reasoning for just wanting to farm tomes during a time when there's nothing else to do anyway. "Oh they're just gonna idle in limsa with it" yeah? And? Who the hell cares?

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Because "I want the gear" is just a dumb reason.

Do I agree it should still be locked? No. Do I think we should cater to "I want the gear" people? Also no.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I think it’s fine because you can get a relic (665) and full 650 gear without having to spend a single comedy tomestone within an hour from a new job reaching 90

650 is plenty for everything in the game, if you are doing savage prog this late 650 is plenty for entry and you’ll naturally accumulate more gear, if it’s casual 650 is way above the ilvl for everything anyway so the difference between 650 and 660 is mostly just where on the agro chart you sit

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Pretty much this ^

It’s tedious enough to gear up at least 2 jobs with 660 gear it renders the opportunity to gear up 660 for the 3rd. Then again it’s also the matter of ilevel flexing that most players perceive as given the dopamine for better bursts, agroo etc.,

Ideally 650 is more than enough that you could get by with 97% for most of the game’s general content (roulettes fate etc) excluding savage of course which makes it only 3% of it.

After all endgame is glamour truly & less so flexing (WoW has that tendency & it’s distressing). Relic weapons are ridiculously easy now to upgrade it to 665 for most jobs at least per week; provided you viciously farm roulette’s for tomes.

The game’s design is indeed meant to slow its pace & be less competitive but delight more on the fun of things around with other sorts (housing, pvp, social interaction etc.,)

It’s difficult to pinpoint out what it could improve wise, or not at all, after all, every player has different approaches with enjoying the game (casuals & hardcore alike) & neither can be blamed nor be convincing. Best go for what resonates with you than going with the flock mentality.

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Originally Posted by Troxbark

Because "I want the gear" is just a dumb reason.

Do I agree it should still be locked? No. Do I think we should cater to "I want the gear" people? Also no.

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They want the gear at the end of the expansion when it doesn't even matter anymore. They're not even asking for it for free. They're asking for the ability to grind for the gear now, instead of having it dragged out over weeks. Your reasoning makes no sense to me at all. What bothers you about this? Will it bother you in 2-3 months when they uncap it anyway?

here comes the luke warm hot take:
if gear doesn't matter then why does keeping the cap matter? savage is cleared week one with crafted gear, if anything crafted gear needs to be limited to one slot, or majorly nerfed as it just invalidates any form of gearing process this game could have..
gearing isnt fun because its just go to pf and find a "full sets for sale 2m gil" on day one of a patch...

i say uncap the tomes if gear doesn't matter in this game so we can get our glams and our cheap serotonins, but if gear does matter then i say remove crafted gear so we can actually have some world progression getting geared, let the dungeon gear have relevance again, let us actually get our serotonins from finally getting that drop...

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

here comes the luke warm hot take:
if gear doesn't matter then why does keeping the cap matter? savage is cleared week one with crafted gear, if anything crafted gear needs to be limited to one slot, or majorly nerfed as it just invalidates any form of gearing process this came could have, gearing isnt fun because its just go to pf and find a "full sets for sale 2m gil" on day one of a patch...

i say uncap the tomes if gear doesn't matter in this game so we can get our glams and our cheap serotonins, but if gear does matter then i say remove crafted gear so we can actually have some world progression getting geared, let the dungeon gear have relevance again, let us actually get our serotonins from finally getting that drop...

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If crafting gear was nerfed or limited you may as well just delete the crafters because at that point the only reason to level crafters is so you can repair and add materia to your own gear rather than paying an NPC to do it

and? i thought glam was the true endgame? what about furniture? crafters have entire quest lines that are exclusive to them, entire reward structures.
crafting will be fine, and if its not then its up to the multi billion dollar company to improve it.
past that, players have the power to sell week one FOMO is just as dumb as square selling it.
crafted gear may be a great way to not play the game, but it ruins it for mmo fans, i'm sick of this play week one and quit meta.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

and? i thought glam was the true endgame?

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Only to some, plus only a small part of glam came from crafting.

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crafters have entire quest lines that are exclusive to them, entire reward structures.

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And so does all other classes? Ever level up a class you don't like to play? A lot of people do, and what we do with those classes when we cap them, we stop playing them. That's me with Ninja, after hit the cap with it, the next time I play the class is when the next expansion come out. But there are other DoW and DoL I play regularly, take them into new dungeon/raid/content and such. For crafter, new gears is part of their content life cycle to keep them engage throughout the expansion. You don't want people to level their crafter to cap then stop playing them.

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i'm sick of this play week one and quit meta.

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I'm also sick of people complaining about meta when it has always been an optional thing. Don't like the meta? Just don't be part of it. If my gaming time is 10 parts, probably 1 or 2 part of it follow the meta (usually because of Ultimate), but outside of that I often don't care and follow it. Yet I never have issue with finding group or clearing content. What's the point of complaining about other people play style when it doesn't really affect yours? You don't care about week 1 clear? You don't have to. But people who want to should be provided the mean to do so.

once the next expansion hits getting current max level gear becomes a complete joke so doing it now doesn't even matter for anything outside grinding for the sake of grinding

they usually do up the weekly max near the end though so should sooni-ish

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Only to some, plus only a small part of glam came from crafting.




And so does all other classes? Ever level up a class you don't like to play? A lot of people do, and what we do with those classes when we cap them, we stop playing them. That's me with Ninja, after hit the cap with it, the next time I play the class is when the next expansion come out. But there are other DoW and DoL I play regularly, take them into new dungeon/raid/content and such. For crafter, new gears is part of their content life cycle to keep them engage throughout the expansion. You don't want people to level their crafter to cap then stop playing them.



I'm also sick of people complaining about meta when it has always been an optional thing. Don't like the meta? Just don't be part of it. If my gaming time is 10 parts, probably 1 or 2 part of it follow the meta (usually because of Ultimate), but outside of that I often don't care and follow it. Yet I never have issue with finding group or clearing content. What's the point of complaining about other people play style when it doesn't really affect yours? You don't care about week 1 clear? You don't have to. But people who want to should be provided the mean to do so.

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I'm glad you read my words and told me your entirely irrelevant to the conversation feelings...
I guess i made you mad cause you made a point to tell me you dont like ninja as its listed as my main, weird flex but internet people are special.
Thank you for making my point that a class you find irrelevant still gets play time though.
craters get time gated quest lines called beast tribes, thats content for em, go get you mount pal.
just because you like to bot the market with over priced crafted gear doesn't make it good content.

also you say dont play the meta it dont matter, thats how you play, except in ultimate, there you have to play the meta? so i guess it is relevant then isn't it pal?

you can talk all your casual double speak you want, but we all know that the pfs that get clears lock the ilvl at the crafted gear day one.. sure you dont have to use that crap, but hey you dont have to breath either, thats just your choice..

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you can talk all your casual double speak you want, but we all know that the pfs that get clears lock the ilvl at the crafted gear day one.. sure you dont have to use that crap

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That's not because it's meta, it's because it's the bare MINIMUM. And yes you have to ... if you want to clear on day one. Even before you talk about DPS check, without the crafted gears you literally can not survive some of the unavoidable damage. That's why before main-stat materias were removed, people had to meld VIT regardless of the class. I don't know what the work "meta" meant to you, but it certainly doesn't mean "bare minimum" to most people. Your argument would at least have half of a leg if there is an actual way to achieve the minimum ilvl in week 1, but people choose crafted because it's more "efficient". But alas that's not the case, you literally have to spend at least a whole month to get a full set from normal raid.

Sure, if you have group of 7 good players with crafted gear, and you're the last chump who rocking a full set from the previous tier then it's still possible for "you" to clear. I know because I had played in such a group. But be real, you didn't clear while avoiding the meta, you're simply carried to the clear. If all 8 people are like you, the only thing they would be able to do in the first day/week of raid is to die and that's it.



I guess in a world where everything that goes above the effort that you specifically want to put in are meta, then I guess ... it means trying to meet the bare minimum is meta, heck, even attempting to do savage should be considered meta.

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, but hey you dont have to breath either, thats just your choice..

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... but then I doubt you're trying to do a proper argument anyway ... my bad.

For one I have to agree with the loot lockout system that is currently in place on the game. This works fine for the first few week that a new Savage tier gets played. But MONTHS into a savage tier u are still gated by weekly caps who should already be removed by this point in the games cycle.

I mainly play tanks and recently I wanted to get my hands on healing, as it could be a fun challenge, after having beat the tier already. This is a pure pain, not only is it hard to change from the normal tank I play to healer, I am also restricted by my gear. U daim well know that pf sets up the min Ilvl needed to 650, meaning I can't even join on groups. Let alone if I would join in as tank trying to get the gear I want for healer and then go again on said healer just to rob another group of a chest they could have had. I won't do this so I farm weeks worth of tomes and upgrades I need just so I can join these groups for reclears. This in turn reducing my enthusiasm for playing healer for this tier.

Now that one can just use crafted gear, which is the minimum one needs to clear the whole tier. This is in place just so u would not be gated to do these fights when they release, like WoW where they want u to farm weeks worth of gear before u can even do the cool boss fight the devs put moths of hard work into. U would rather spend weeks farming for that tiny extra bit of health or dmg instead of just playing the fight?

On the flip side yes 650 is more then enough to do most content, but what does it mater when something has been out for months at this point. Not only does it encourage new players who have not done the tier by that point to now go in and more easily get your bis sets. It also provides those who already play these to gear up alt jobs and try to go for a clear on a job they have not yet done it on, even more the case when a ultimate drops after a tier to give players the time and choice to change classes dependent on that their group needs. Isn't this a gain on both sides of the coin here?

An off topic on this part is that fact that more then 1 job type also shares gear, take "striking" and "maiming" for example. They share accessories under the "striking" name. This already forces u to pick ONE of these two types u want to gear for. As u the other will a majority of the time not share the same pieces or melding's in their sets. And if u choose to play monk over samurai u cant even share the gear without it being abysmal on the other.

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Originally Posted by Shikono

This works fine for the first few week that a new Savage tier gets played. But MONTHS into a savage tier u are still gated by weekly caps who should already be removed by this point in the games cycle.

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Both time frames you listed are bizzare. On week 2, gear should absolutely still be locked because the only people clearing the tier week 1 are hardcore raiders. You also don't define "months", 3 to 4 months seems more than reasonable. If anything, gearing alts should be cheaper after you purchase the first piece of gear. So if you purchase chest, the next chest piece you buy should be significantly cheaper, this keeps the cap in place, reduces the grind overall, and makes alt gearing much simpler.

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if I would join in as tank trying to get the gear I want for healer and then go again on said healer just to rob another group of a chest they could have had

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This is the way of PF. Free for all loot, if you want fair gearing then join a static.

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like WoW where they want u to farm weeks worth of gear before u can even do the cool boss fight the devs put moths of hard work into. U would rather spend weeks farming for that tiny extra bit of health or dmg instead of just playing the fight?

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YES PLEASE GOD, YES.

Meaningful gear? Meaningful fights? Tiers of gear upgrades so you can dabble in the last bit of content the game has instead of buying stuff off the market board and plowing through everything? ABSOLUTELY YES. Gearing in this game is so bad that I can't think of any mmo with a worse gearing system.

Like I said the current system works for the first few weeks of a tier, but after (for me personally) 2 - 3months u should begin to see reductions in costs. And then after a good 5 - 6 months there should be absolutely no reason to sill have any restrictions on loot or tomes. This is also the time a ultimate would get released after a tier drops, so having a full unlock would encourage more people to go into and try the new fight.

U said the only people who clear week one are hardcore raiders. That's where u are wrong, I know a heap of people who by this point have not cleared or did 2 months into the tier. They still made it past every 3th fight of said tier. It is ridiculous to say that only "hardcore" are able to clear a fight week one. Every fight is still hard, just doing it without any piece of gear is something even said hardcore players don't do, any hp, any dps gain is a boost to being able to clear. They even funnel all gear to 1 dps on week 1 just so they can lower damage check requirements.

I do static and pf. In both cases u are not able to gear anywhere soon, on average it takes 8 to 10 weeks (if u are able to clear every fight each week, something most midcore or casual statics can't even do after 3 or 4 months into a tier). Everyone needs gear, there is not a single person who would willingly pass on gear just for 1 person, unless as stated before its a week 1 trying to maximize clear potential on a final fight. This is even so bad that in JP they put up rules where everyone is only allowed to get 1 piece per fight, u roll on what u need not everything, u get a piece and u leave 1 by 1. Even if u would have 7 other people who would willingly pass on the gear from savage, u would still be capped by your ability to gain tomes.

I am all for more gearing options, more routes to get to your final BIS set. But having a fight be deliberately unclearable just because your group does not meet the required gear to beat it is utterly outrages and should never be implemented. Or do we not remember the p8s fiasco?

While I am on this, the relic which is supposed to be the peak of catchup gear should ALWAYS be BIS and not just the final stage. What point is there in making a weapon that isn't even better then that tiers current savage fight? Not a soul would be damaged because u get a weapon through the relic steps that is better then the savage one. If they were, how come no one is talking about the new Mandervillous weapons being better?

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

You're not supposed to get max level gear on everything. 650 is plenty for anything that's not a savage, and its completely unrealistic to be able to play every single job well enough to do savage with them.

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Why is it wrong to want 660 tomestone sets for multiple jobs. I get that 650 is "enough" to clear everything but savage but that doesn't mean that is how I want to gear my character and I bet I am not alone in that. I don't do savage but I still want the full set of tomestone gear for my healers, tank, phys dps and caster. It just takes far too long to get there. That's the point. And its not like there is any meaningful horizontal progress to choose from as an alternative that just wanting to max my tome gear.