The case for whips : why theyre not weapons of torture

so, i saw a lot of people saying the whip shouldnt be added because its a weapon of torture. i decided to look into the origin of whips and what they were used for.

so the standard whip people think of is called the "bullwhip or the shockwhip" contratry to the name, these are not weapons of torture . i will quiote the offical wikipedia article here

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It is generally not used to actually strike an animal, as it would inflict excessive pain and is difficult to apply with precision.

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the original use of these whips was actually for the sound they made, which was a loud crackle. this was designed to frighten the animals away and heard them *hence the name bullwhip* the reason we see old westerners with whips is a combination of the lasso they wielded to round up wild stallions and also the factmany were farmers cultivating the fertile new world

so why do we see whips as weapons of torture when there isnt examples of them historically used as animals cruelty devices.

- well from my reserch this is because of 2 things, one the riding crop, used by jockeys even today to incourage horses to change direction speed or jump (it does not hurt the horse when used properly)

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They can also be used without inflicting pain, for audiovisual cues, such as in equestrianism.

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Number two is the Cat-o-ninetails. a small multi ended whip with sevral fingers used for the lashing and scarring of PEOPLE, not really for animals

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inflicting corporal punishment or torture on human targets

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these whips were used to torture animals too, such as southerners using them to break wild stallions and bulls for sport and entiertainment. also by lion tamers in traveling circuses. most notably back ni the 19th centuary by a famous figure know as Thomas Macarte

so why give beastmaster a whip. well because it was the traditional weapon used in the handling of animals. the loud cracking could be a warning, the light smack a guide and overall a great hearding tool.

from a gameplay perspective : whips are kind of under represented in media. i found a small few mMos which have successfuly used whips
Elden ring/ Runescape 2007/ Dark Souls
all of these have mixed reviews. but this shows that whip are very nieche typically they offer long range and light strikes with fast movements

from an ethical perspective. okay if were going to argue whips torture = bad we must look at other weapons in game and there historical use., notable axes, daggers, scythes and shuriken. all of these are weapons of torture - the axe to behead, the dagger to scar and maim, the scythe to slit throats, and the shuriken to gouge. so why get etihical with whips... well simply put its an easy target, but ironially, historically. it wasnt used any more or less for torture. even on animals

One word, Castlevania. Nobody cares that the Belmonts fight evil with a holy whip and it looks cool.

Second word...ss, Indiana Jones. Nobody cares that an iconic character like Indy uses a trademark whip to fight baddies.

Who's arguing against whips?

also, consider doing reserch into your favourite weapons to learn more about theyre actual uses : for example.. did you know a katana was not a primary weapon used by a samurai, the katana was sacred, alive and spiritual. to strike another katana with it was to comit a great sin, to break your katana was punished with death or sepukku...the typical samurai weapon was infact the mounted longbow.

the rapier was not a weapon of combat but of sport, used in fencing today its primary appeal is swordsmanship, same with the broadsword (pld wpn) typically medieval knights used spears, lances, halberds and bows to kill, the sword was to punish, or to knight. not to fight

two scythes exist in history, one you might think of as the rpr weapon, but the real one was a shinobi weapon, see, shinobi were assasins lurking in plain sight .. and they often used typical gardening tools to kill there targets

i could think of more but tbh id need to reserch, do your own, its fascinating.. but might ruin some weapons for you... because video games and fantasy do not respect real history

Would likely just devolve into some weird ERP thing.

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Originally Posted by Sensui

Would likely just devolve into some weird ERP thing.

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yoshidas stance on a buttslider

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But if we were to have a slider where all of our players have the option to enlarge their behind,” Yoshida says, “we would have to look at all of our equipment, which there are thousands in the game! We would have to remake each one because we have to anticipate some people might slide their butt slider all the way to maximum, and trying to accommodate for that is physically impossible unless we implemented this physics simulation so that the model of the fabric wouldn’t overlap with the model of the behind “Maybe, perhaps if everybody’s hardware and the specs of the processing power goes up, or if we had hypothetically revamped our graphics engine, it might not be impossible. But unless we do that, I think it’s quite difficult to accommodate. Again, it’s not impossible but if asked when it’s coming, we don’t know.”

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there is glam in the game that literally gives you a bigger more vuluptious butt, i think at this point we shouldnt care about erpers because square doesnt. the masses shouldnt be denied a weapon because a handful of degens (all who likley mod it onto there rapier anyway) use it for that. (also yokotaro admits 2B was a S-X doll and asks his fans to send him 2B hentai. so there is NO defending those panties)

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“Due to the 2B butt controversy, many outrageous drawings are being made. Collecting them to share individually is a pain. It would be great if we can group them together to make it easier to distribute them every week.”

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https://x.com/yokotaro/status/818147107638943744?s=20

if you think this is crazy check this comment by mutome toriyama, creator of ffXIII
Toriyama: That may be the case. But I do love her with all my heart. It's the reason I wanted every little imperfection corrected in Lightning Returns so of course I wanted her b---ts to be bigger and for them to jiggle.

what if they said the reason we cant have bare feet was to prevent foot fetishes? it would sound dumb and lazy. thats how the case against erpers sound. we literally just added furry cat moms into the game.. you cant stop the fetishers, just avoid them

Beastmaster:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fi...FFV_SD_art.png

Blue mage:
https://www.finalfantasykingdom.net/8/quistis.png

Wait..I've confused myself.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

One word, Castlevania. Nobody cares that the Belmonts fight evil with a holy whip and it looks cool.

Second word...ss, Indiana Jones. Nobody cares that an iconic character like Indy uses a trademark whip to fight baddies.

Who's arguing against whips?

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found this 1 so far

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To be fair, I don't think you can criticize with the real world application of Dual Wielding swords in the same post you are trying to sell Whips as an actual weapon.

Whips are a tool of punishment and torture. They have never been a battlefield weapon, with good reason.

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I hear them being a sex tool way more than a torture tool.
Especially that bluemage pic above. Exposes belly button. What a slut!

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

I hear them being a sex tool way more than a torture tool.
Especially that bluemage pic above. Exposes belly button. What a slut!

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BDSM is controll/torture fetish. its not what they were made for, its not a bullwhip they use as its to hard to aim. (ppl fantascize about it but a real dominatrix uses a cat-o-nine tails; actually designed for human torture)

ppl prolly got the idea they use bullwhipe because of cat woman ( a dominatrix) https://static.promediateknologi.id/...2580287951.jpg

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

because video games and fantasy do not respect real history

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Since when did they need to? Most weapons in video games and fantasy not only do not adhere to history, they are also ridiculously impractical for actual combat. There are tons of videos out there showcasing this. Shadeversity is a good channel to look at for exploring the effectiveness of weapons and armor both real and imagined.

Weapons in games and animation only need to kick butt and look cool while they do it.

I don't think whip is unlikely for any ethical reason, but I do think it's unlikely because FF14 already somewhat established Beastmaster as archetype within itself as "one-handed axe + shield" thing, with like half a dozen different named Beastmasters from Bozja. Of course, there's possibility of them saying that its just regional take on the job or something, but I imagine theyll lean harder into that, maybe making shield into some sort of tamer's glove, and turning the weapon combo into single weapon.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

they are also ridiculously impractical for actual combat. There are tons of videos out there showcasing this.

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here, this is a video that goes into various styles of combat based bullwhips (and is ironically a response to that video)
https://youtu.be/cP0E45Bhcw4
inform yourself. its amazing how many different weapons the whip can emulate

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Originally Posted by Heroman3003

I don't think whip is unlikely for any ethical reason, but I do think it's unlikely because FF14 already somewhat established Beastmaster as archetype within itself as "one-handed axe + shield" thing, with like half a dozen different named Beastmasters from Bozja. Of course, there's possibility of them saying that its just regional take on the job or something, but I imagine theyll lean harder into that, maybe making shield into some sort of tamer's glove, and turning the weapon combo into single weapon.

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i dont see this being likley because it would have similar weapons to other jobs (we have shields and we dont like em, we have small axes)
so adding the same 2 weapons in game again would only annoy ppl. even blu uses a magicians cane that whm doesnt use
as for bozja, at the time bst was on the table and they were checking reception. they didnt need to flesh it out

also, traditional jobs like sage have new weapons in 14 so the idea that it would translate over to FFXIV is "hopefull nostalgia" at best

I mean, whips can be used for torture, but I don't see why that makes them any worse than any of the other weapons we use to slaughter a hundred creatures every day. I guess the idea is that Beastmaster is hurting their own animals? I would be very surprised if they actually had us use the whip on the animals, even if it's just to make a startling sound. The whip would just be a weapon to fight enemies with.

i doubt there are arguments against whips, but I'm sure there are plenty of baseless virtue signals..

I mean, WOL is kinds the bad guy tbh. Killing all the local wildlife. Pretty awful people.

I need to whip myself into shape.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

yoshidas stance on a buttslider

snip

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https://www.gamespot.com/articles/fi.../1100-6480013/

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But if we were to have a slider where all of our players have the option to enlarge their behind, we would have to look at all of our equipment, which there are thousands in the game! We would have to remake each one because we have to anticipate some people might slide their butt slider all the way to maximum, and trying to accommodate for that is physically impossible unless we implemented this physics simulation so that the model of the fabric wouldn't overlap with the model of the behind. I mean, considering how many people are being rendered on the screen at the same time, with this being an MMORPG, it's crazy. It's not feasible.

Maybe, perhaps if everybody's hardware and the specs of the processing power goes up, or if we had hypothetically revamped our graphics engine, it might not be impossible. But unless we do that, I think it's quite difficult to accommodate. Again, it's not impossible but if asked when it's coming, we don't know.

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8.0 gonna be wild.

There is basically zero combat application for a whip. There is a famous performer known as Jacques ze Whipper who has trained with whips for over 30 years. He was once asked in an interview how he'd beat a man with a sword using his whip. He basically said he couldn't. That assuming the swordsman was the least bit skilled in using a blade, he'd win every time.

That said, we have glowing swords the size of our entire bodies. Screw reality, it looks cool. Give us whips.

It'll likely be one-handed axes with shields like we've already seen beastmasters using. So far I've only seen people on this very forum wanting whips for their "sexy outfits" and being generally thirsty, including OP, so why not just lean into it guys? Why this weird defense post? Just own the actual reason you want it and leave it at that.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3e/82...8f229b85c0.gif

War whips are pretty good in combat. Whip with lots of spikes and thorns on it. Flail and a morning star are also kind of like whips.

If you stopped looking at Twitter you'd have a more realistic view of what people may or may not like.

That said without the place you looked the thread is a waste to even make. I don't care what weapons any job has so long as it's designed decently and I don't fall asleep playing it.

I don't think devs would have any issues adding whips regardless of any modern-day perceived connotation to them. However not adding them due to frustration of animating their attacks, in which over 90% of the weapon is constantly moving... could be an issue. If they did add it, wouldn't be surprised if only the handles had unique appearances, and the whip portion looked the same across all skins, with a few palette swaps.

I have no problem with whips as long as we don't do a colonialism. If we go to the Americas, do a colonialism and everyone is walking around with a whip on their hip, I'm not gonna believe any of this was by mistake.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

found this 1 so far

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Literally that argument can be made for any weapon as an instrument of torture. Such a dumb take.

Yeah I hope we do get a whip wielding class sometime in the future

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Originally Posted by Lady_Silvermoon

I have no problem with whips as long as we don't do a colonialism. If we go to the Americans, do a colonialism and everyone is walking around with a whip on their hip, I'm not gonna believe any of this was by mistake.

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Good thing we're not going to the "Americans".

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Good thing we're not going to the "Americans".

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Even if the place with the Aztec monuments, Old West buildings and tacos wasn't the Americas, I'm gonna be mad if I have to come to these forums and argue why enslaving the natives was wrong. And I wish I was 100% confident that's not a conversation I'm gonna have to have, but Endwalker gave me trust issues.

Some outfits like the Qarn jacket already have whips built into them

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Originally Posted by Lady_Silvermoon

Even if the place with the Aztec monuments, Old West buildings and tacos wasn't the Americas, I'm gonna be mad if I have to come to these forums and argue why enslaving the natives was wrong. And I wish I was 100% confident that's not a conversation I'm gonna have to have, but Endwalker gave me trust issues.

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do the ffxiv forums from the future a favour and dont even start that conversation that nobody wants to have

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

do the ffxiv forums from the future a favour and dont even start that conversation that nobody wants to have

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A conversation requires more than one person. If you don't want to participate, then don't.