Would you rather have Corsair and Geomancer instead of Viper and Pictomancer?

Corsair using sword and pistol, Geomancer using dual bells
Yes or no?

I'm good with either Viper or Corsair. But, Green Mage is my fave job and they did us dirty with that clover tease. So I'm bummed we did not get a Green Mage with a mace, nature/plant magic, and dots. Pictomancer feels like it should have been a limited job, and they need to work on the VFX, but I don't mind it as a job.

Green Mage, Geomancer (probably have to have a different name), druid, etc- I would have liked such ideas more. Corsair and Viper are similar to my sense of taste ('okay') and Pictomancer just felt like a limited job escaped lol. On one hand I'm happy they tried something so wild even though I don't care for the theme, on the other hand it makes me a bit more miffed about blue mage because they did it with pictomancer but not blue, and I had really wanted to main it (and felt it was an opportunity for them to shine interesting and divergent design).

Definitely not going to riot about either, but they're not really my tea either. Maybe a good thing if perhaps others haven't been represented since I felt I have been for so long? (Sans blue.. lol). Have seen some people respond positively so that might be the right of it.

Suggested it in another thread but I would like to suggest bonus content to pictomancer in the form paints. Pick ink painting, Okami, bright and peppy, etc. Would add more individuality to the job, and so potentially help people jive with it.

On the side of clover tease, I wonder why they like to misdirect people.. it seems like a good way to disappoint people who were hopeful. Could be misreading and not intentional, but I saw people go through a similar rollercoaster with Chemist and it didn't seem to be a positive thing.

I would have preferred Corsair, but I like the look of Viper and will gladly take it. Though this means a potential future Corsair may end up being in the phys-ranged role, and I don't yet know what to make of that possibility.

I don't feel strongly enough about Geomancer or Pictomancer to prefer one or the other, but I'll say I think the choice of aesthetic they went with for Picto was a good one. After seeing it, I think the game needs it and is better for it.

Guys, that airship has sailed, GEO and COR are never coming, may as well just accept that and move on (GEO in FFXIV's lore is just the Far Eastern version of CNJ with some AST thrown in for good measure anyway, and COR would just be MCH with a silly RNG mechanic, which is what it's FFXI version is.).

And like Green Mage, SE is clearly moving on from 'existing' Job names and instead creating new Jobs based on previous FF characters, which is why we got VPR and PCT (okay, we are getting BST too though, so... maybe there is some hope, as remote as it is...).

Personal preference on the table I'd have taken most any other job over pictomancer. I love Realm as a character but they picked up on a very simple premise and tried to make an entire job out of it. Not a bad plan and the job may wind up being fun but so far I'm just not impressed.

BUT I do like the idea of using characters as templates and unlike Sage, Pictomancer does at least seem to line up with Realm at least a bit. From that game alone we still have a half-esper, a magi-tech knight, a mimic, a potential claw using martial artist, a monster copy cat, and a yeti. That also opens up a number of other vague concepts from other games to play around with.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

On the side of clover tease, I wonder why they like to misdirect people.. it seems like a good way to disappoint people who were hopeful. Could be misreading and not intentional, but I saw people go through a similar rollercoaster with Chemist and it didn't seem to be a positive thing.

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To generate discussion and hype? Viewing old versions of jobs as failed attempts? To try and be one step ahead of the community? Just spitballing.

Like chemist existed, it was old astrologian. But I guess that wouldn't be as exciting from a PR perspective to bring back something that got old yellered.

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Originally Posted by LynxDubh

I'm good with either Viper or Corsair. But, Green Mage is my fave job and they did us dirty with that clover tease. So I'm bummed we did not get a Green Mage with a mace, nature/plant magic, and dots. Pictomancer feels like it should have been a limited job, and they need to work on the VFX, but I don't mind it as a job.

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Green Mage BARELY exists in the series though. How could it be anyones favorite. The job isn't fleshed out at all.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Green Mage BARELY exists in the series though. How could it be anyones favorite. The job isn't fleshed out at all.

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Cuz I love the Ivalice games, I like green, and I love enhancing and enfeebling effects. I grew an affinity when it was a new thing and have wanted to see more ever since. And it had a bit of a druidic spin in Tactics A2 and I liked that.

People latch onto weird stuff. People have come out and said Pictomancer was their fave job when only Relm in VI had it and an appearance in Bravely Default. And before it was a glorified Blue Mage of the three there were in VI.

I was die hard team Corsair, and some kind of green caster, but I'm totally fine with Viper, and Pictomancer.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Green Mage BARELY exists in the series though. How could it be anyones favorite. The job isn't fleshed out at all.

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Pretty sure Pictomancer barely exists in the series, and I only know of one Final Fantasy game it was in.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Green Mage BARELY exists in the series though. How could it be anyones favorite. The job isn't fleshed out at all.

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And we got gunbreaker from a weapon used by a single protagonist and the spin-offs featuring that protagonist. To me that says anything is fair game to make a job out of.

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

To generate discussion and hype? Viewing old versions of jobs as failed attempts? To try and be one step ahead of the community? Just spitballing.

Like chemist existed, it was old astrologian. But I guess that wouldn't be as exciting from a PR perspective to bring back something that got old yellered.

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I would think bad hype is not good, but hey I don't get outrage marketing either lol. I would accept generate discussion though, perhaps as a type of poll almost. However... how about just increasing community interaction and do an actual poll then? The other two reasons seem to be not great choices either. Though again I'm definitely not a marketing scholar so maybe it's too rocket science for me /shrug.

If it was intentional it feels like 1 step forward (discussion) for 2 steps back (upset/disappointed players). Why bother? To generate discussion is the reason I paused on a little though, it might be that (but as I said I wish they would just actually discuss then, not be like "HAHA GOTCHA, YOU GOT PUNKED" lol).

If corsair used a whip, then sure. I would have liked a new job to use a weapon that is not currently used at all in FFXIV, and a whip for a new melee job fit the bill perfectly. We already have multiple variations of blade art and marksmanship in the game. The dev team totally squandered this opportunity allocating resources into viper.

Oddly enough, even though I don't play casters I feel picto was an even worse decision. I think just about any other choice would have been better.

Very happy with Viper as I wanted a double blade job like Judge.
I don't mind Pictomancer, it's just the personality of the job is too childish and feels like a joke job. Imagine we missed the opportunity to have a Kishibe Rohan job.

I got really excited at the prospect of a sword+pistol Job, so I was initially disappointed when it turned out to instead be twin blades/twinblade, though it's something I was expecting they'd add sooner or later as it's an established... gimmick? in the series, just not this soon? That said, I don't think that means we won't be getting Corsair (or something like it) further down the line, there was an excerpt from EE going around after the first Fanfest talking about Dalmascan fusiliers dual wielding smallswords and pistols, though something like Rostnsthal from the MCH questline (and 1.0, apparently) who uses axe and pistol, could also work (and would avoid adding yet another sword job, though I certainly wouldn't complain).

N... no strong feelings regarding the caster one way or another, though.

This thread is on the edge of becoming subjectives like any other thread that BnM before.

But my subjectives so far(Regardless if they veer straight into opinion, or "Fair Enough" Category)

Picto honestly probably better off overall thematic and name wise than any other Magic-Ranged-DPS.

[XIV seems to be wanting to go with specific concepts rather than filling out the checkbook of what is missing.]

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PICtomancer bypass the dull idea of the Rainbow Mages(Aka largely forced to be identified and Correlate something to a color which can be abit forced at times when you think about what needs to be put in.)
So the concept of taking the entire Palate and using that to "fully create" things works well in hand.
Instead of the typical Base, Force of nature(What WHM is<Stasis>, and what people wanted to basically create a Nature DPS/BLM), Sterile/Stable Luminary(or DualAspect. AKA Redmage), or Dark Magic(Aka, Chaotic Astral-Umbral Balance User)

Ignore and bypassing all the largely overdone, samey in theme, absorbed in other class concepts.
(which is partially why some people will never be pleased that TimeMage was off the table for awhile due to Astrologian. And could likely still be. Or Geo also Being Tied to Astrologian by that manner.) [Now that I think about it, ASTRO basically is in a way the Original that keeps both of those concepts covered. As both the Sky/Time and Earth/Space. Are accounted for.]

So it having precedent in a previous game, and being evolved into Creation, rather than duplication. Is pretty fitting for XIV rather than Regurgitating/Duplicating a "Green"DPS.

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VIPer as PICtomancer had done above, worked to counteract the samey-ness.
But due to the majority that Melee have, and their Trio of types. (Striking, Scouting, Maiming)
Had to fill a Role, while also bringing something new.

Thus, Embodying a "Bruiser" like ideal of a Dual Blade(Mirroring NINja, yet of a different path), whilst Bringing in a Twin(Etc) as the main idea keeping it fresh to what players had wanted.

When it was announced, they kept referring to what was requested as a job for the Scouting armor, dual wielding. (Which I take it from their POV, the Melee Types had a general Concensus of what they are. Maiming with their Large Weapons and Heavier Armors. Striking being Hard Focused Hits. Scouting Focused on the Duality of things.)[That Duality ended up being the Melee/Magic for NINja. Two Weapons in one for VIPer, in its own Duality. And their Originating Class ROGue just simply being Upclose and Person Dual Wielding Melee/Knives.]

While some will undoubtedly say that Corsair could do the same. A Single, Single Handed weapon on both hands/arms doesn't really do the Duality of Scouting much. Which seems to be how SE had chosen to follow that ideal. (More so, as the Melee Types, break their Ideal of Scouting/Maiming/Striking down into specific directions. Almost like their own Aspects of the same philosophy)

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In the end though, the cards didn't fall well for those who expected the other jobs.

(Yet, it only needs to be seen how others react. While they ain't perfect job, they fit many niches than some had wanted. it may not be ours, yours or mine. or maybe the colors, strikes, or effects match our view of said job theme. People have asked enough for this, that the devs made it.)

Maybe we'll get a couple of tanks with a mix of mid-range melee/extending weaponry.(Chains/Whip anyone?) or other types in the future.

For We can easily round out all Tanks/Healers/Melee-Ranged-Magic DPS to 6 each.

There's still time.

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

And we got gunbreaker from a weapon used by a single protagonist and the spin-offs featuring that protagonist. To me that says anything is fair game to make a job out of.

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I never said it wasn't, I just pointed out that its hardly fleshed out, so I don't know how it could be a favorite. FFVI is a prominent game, I know Tactics is popular, but Square Enix has pretty much stopped making them at this point. :/ And I say that as an owner of all of the tactics games.

I am cautiously optimistic that Viper is going to scratch that itch I've had for a scouting job ever since getting disappointed by ROG turning into NIN of all things way back when so I'm happy to give that a spin.
To contrast with Corsair, I just don't know how to feel about that Job in XIV. RDM severely lowered my expectations of the people in charge of Job design figuring out a satisfying ranged -> melee (or melee -> ranged) loop. The best I can envision would've been something akin to NIN, just using the gun instead of pseudo-magic to pull out the ranged attacks which would've made the scouting Jobs decidedly too samey for my tastes.

I'm entirely neutral on the topic of magic DPS Jobs. I had the one I liked with old SMN and they completely gutted that so I'm not convinced they will ever do a magic DPS Job I'll enjoy again. Well besides BLU, I do enjoy that in the limited content it can do.

I’d take Corsair over Viper any day.

Pictomancer over Geo for sure tho. Its theme isn’t going to be for everyone for sure but Pictomancer has the potential to be interesting and different which is what really counts. We don’t need yet another WHM/AST clone.

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Originally Posted by Vandso

Corsair using sword and pistol, Geomancer using dual bells
Yes or no?

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im not for ur idea of corsair. instead i want more of a traditional gambler/lady luck job with a pistol on it. as for geomancer. couldnt care less. i wanted artist the minute i found out it was a possibility and its something this game needs.

Corsair and Pictomancer.

Geomancer would be neat, but I like what we're getting. Corsair was just a pirate themed gambler, and any gambler class would probably *have* to be a limited job because of random elements. (That said, I'd love a Gambler limited job. It would go nicely with my Setzer jacket from Gold Saucer.)

Before viper was revealed I was hoping we would get corsair and was hoping for beastmaster or puppetmaster as the 2nd job. Beastmaster end up being the limited job unfortunately but ill most likely still play viper and pictomacer and either main them or at least play them a lot.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

im not for ur idea of corsair. instead i want more of a traditional gambler/lady luck job with a pistol on it. as for geomancer. couldnt care less. i wanted artist the minute i found out it was a possibility and its something this game needs.

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FFXI's Corsair was kind of both. Since that game had separate slots for melee and ranged weapons the Corsairs had a sword/knife as a melee and their job exclusive hexaguns for ranged paired luck/rng based skills. Their hexagun not having anything to do with magic. It was just an odd type of blackpowder style pistol that had wide barrel with 6 holes in a hexagon pattern.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

GEO in FFXIV's lore is just the Far Eastern version of CNJ with some AST thrown in for good measure anyway,

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Lore is never a good excuse to not do something. Like male miqo'te/viera being "too rare" to play as.

Could easily just have the job trainer NPC be like "oh I'm from Tural/Meracydia/wherever and this is what we call a Geomancer" and have it not fit the existing awful lore from the terrible AST quests.

I'm super happy we got Viper over corsair. I was going to swap to the new melee no matter what, but at least Viper fits the style I've wanted to play in FFXIV since 2.x. I never really wanted to play a pirate job, so I'm really happy that isn't the job that was revealed. Playing an Assassin/Rogue is what I've wanted to do since I started, and Ninja just never really fit the style. So yeah I'm completely satisfied as far as the reveal goes.


I don't really play mages but Pictomancer is more or less what I expected from the turtle hint. No surprises there for me , I was never attached to green mage, because I don't feel like green mage has a very strong identity in the series. I was honestly really surprised that green mage was what everyone expected, but there were some good theories out there. I'm also somewhat tired of [insert color here] mage.

But again I don't really play mages so I don't have a strong feeling one way or another, but Pictomancer definitely looks interesting so far.

No..........

At this point it's funny because Yoshi often does the unexpected and it turns out fine or even great but everyone is like...my rp! My head canon lore! Like man, don't plan out new characters or rp job stories for your characters ahead of time. I mean it's Zidane and Realm turned into jobs, practically anyone who says they expected that is lying.

This is like some kind of bonkers FFXIV tradition at this point, it has happened so often and in a bunch of ways and it turns out fine but drives people crazy in the mean time. I still think White Mage should have been based out of Uldah and the temples of Nald and Thal. It just seems to me like it would have been a better fit for the lore, they even have a twin deity with twin temples. And Corsair was such a tease really going all the way back to those 1.0 cutscenes with the sideways pistol and the musketeer's guild we never got. And where's my necromancer instead of Reaper? I had a lalafell character with a profitable necromancy business all planned out mwahahaha.

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Originally Posted by Waaltar

At this point it's funny because Yoshi often does the unexpected and it turns out fine or even great but everyone is like...my rp! My head canon lore! Like man, don't plan out new characters or rp job stories for your characters ahead of time. I mean it's Zidane and Realm turned into jobs, practically anyone who says they expected that is lying.

This is like some kind of bonkers FFXIV tradition at this point, it has happened so often and in a bunch of ways and it turns out fine but drives people crazy in the mean time. I still think White Mage should have been based out of Uldah and the temples of Nald and Thal. It just seems to me like it would have been a better fit for the lore, they even have a twin deity with twin temples. And Corsair was such a tease really going all the way back to those 1.0 cutscenes with the sideways pistol and the musketeer's guild we never got. And where's my necromancer instead of Reaper? I had a lalafell character with a profitable necromancy business all planned out mwahahaha.

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Fantasia into a Miqo or Hroth and be a Nekomancer :P

I'm still not sure wth is a job like Pictomancer doing in the game. It feels so out of place. They had so many other options to choose from.

Probably the most unpopular job ever created. Geomancer or Chemist were the way to go. Viper is nice and would not change it.

Also, why the fck they made BST a limited job? I was so excited about it and well... at least we have it I guess. BST is really something I'm looking forward to.

No. Corsair is cool, but I enjoy Viper's presentation and fighting style a lot more than the aesthetics of Corsair would be, and of three job options between Pictomancer, Green Mage and Geomancer, Pictomancer is definitely one that brings most 'new' things to the game, while also standing out more and, most importantly, actually fitting into its role as mDPS best out of all three, since Geomancer is much closer to a healer and Green Mage is a job that appeared like twice in entire series and could only cast 'protect' and similar things.

I don't think either can be discounted just yet though I can absolutely see Corsair coming as physical ranged, rather than scouting; being a physical version of RDM maybe. And Geomancer could be fifth healer, whenever that time comes. Still, I'm personally glad we got the jobs we got, over those two.

Geomancer? yes
Cosair? yes but I also don't mind viper, I think viper looks cool

I think I'd take Geo/cosair over the other two, because I wanna be a pirate but I'd also love a proper stone/areo caster.

I'm likely bias against Picto because I really dislike it's design, I already dislike the summoner rework, but like the "caster" design and gameplay, so knowing that picto is likely the last caster for a long while is just a massive disappointment to me personally

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Originally Posted by Vandso

Corsair using sword and pistol, Geomancer using dual bells
Yes or no?

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The names of the jobs do not matter as much as the weapon they were to be designed around. There is a bit of contrast with these two new jobs coming to FFXIV in the sense that Pictomancer couldn't be anything other than a job based on Relm. While a dual sword user could have been called Corsair, Viper, or anything else they could have thought up.

What you're actually saying with Corsair is you wanted a job that uses a sword plus pistol combo, and in that sense my response is no. That's not what I would rather have. PLD, NIN, DRK, RDM, SAM, GNB all use variations of swordsmanship. That is a total of six jobs. And MCH, BRD, and even GNB again to a certain extent all use marksmanship skills. I wanted something truly different, and not just another variation of something that already exists in this game.

As a huge Questes Trepe, Indiana Jones, and Castlevania fan, I had high hopes for a whip user as the next melee job. I felt the game was primed for the implementation of this weapon. The vampiric themes for some of the encounters found inside Pandemonium along with the new areas we will be visiting captured all three of these perfectly. That is something that would have got me super hyped for DT. I did not care what they called this job. I just wanted the whip and all the glamour possibilities that came with it for my character.

Anywho, since that opportunity is lost now I'm just going to have to wait to see what they do with some of my current favorite jobs.

Geomancer would have been cool, but I’m most bummed about not getting Corsair. Viper looks like it’ll still be cool, though.

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Originally Posted by LynxDubh

I'm good with either Viper or Corsair. But, Green Mage is my fave job and they did us dirty with that clover tease. So I'm bummed we did not get a Green Mage with a mace, nature/plant magic, and dots. Pictomancer feels like it should have been a limited job, and they need to work on the VFX, but I don't mind it as a job.

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I mean it makes sense. Green Mage isn't a damage dealing Caster in FFXII and FFTA2. It only has buff/debuff spells and none of them are plant/nature based or even do DoTs.
I could see them making Green Mage a shield healer at some point (since they use Protect and Shell), with its main gimmick being "Oil ensures Casters do more damage, Tranq ensures Dex Jobs do more damage, Leap ensures Maim Jobs do more damage, etc."

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Originally Posted by LynxDubh

Cuz I love the Ivalice games, I like green, and I love enhancing and enfeebling effects. I grew an affinity when it was a new thing and have wanted to see more ever since. And it had a bit of a druidic spin in Tactics A2 and I liked that.

People latch onto weird stuff. People have come out and said Pictomancer was their fave job when only Relm in VI had it and an appearance in Bravely Default. And before it was a glorified Blue Mage of the three there were in VI.

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Even if Green Mage did get added, it would almost certainly have no resemblance to the singular example of Green Mage from TA:2. Debuffs are largely non-existent in XIV. Dancer, a job that is most strongly associated with debuffs, was given 0 debuff application out of the entirely useless Phys Ranged Role Actions (minus the very occasional Head Graze for interruption). DOTs have only ever been culled and have literally never been built upon even for the Summoner that once was a DOT DPS. It's far more likely that Green Mage would be something entirely new. Seems a lot more likely that it would've been something like the Dancer of casters--low personal DPS, but prominent use of buffs to compensate.

Geomancer? Yeah, probably, but I kind of already resigned to them being a cameo-only job (like Necromancer and Thief) ever since Swallow's Compass was created. Interestingly enough, not because "I want an earth/wind/water caster" (I would have preferred them as a healer) but because I think the Feng Shui aspect would have made for a more interesting gameplay mechanic/job gauge where the actual direction you are facing when casting/using abilities plays a factor, maybe used in conjunction with ground fields to be set with different healing/support effects. People tend to get hung-up on Geomancer's being reliant on what terrain they are standing on when they also can pull heavily from Feng Shui aspects. After seeing how homogenized and polarized healers are, I don't think I even want to see them as a healer now either. I would like to note that I found the arguments of "GEO would just use the same elements of CNJ! Redundant!" amusing when Pictomancer has been shown to also "cast" stone and blizzard among other things in their own manner and nobody bats an eye about those spells already being in the game. Naturally, because they add their own flavor to them with their own additional aesthetics and tricks. Geomancer could have achieved the same thing with Yin Yang and Trigram special effects for example, but I digress...

Have no interest in Corsair, seemed like a longshot (pun not intended). Likewise, no interest in Viper, so to me you could take or leave either job.

Ehhh I kinda prefer what we got over Corsair and Geomancer. I can see the appeal of Corsair as I am also sick of sword classes but scouting gear being dedicated to one job kinda sucks and I'd rather not have a class that is RNG based on luck draws, I feel that'd work better as a limited job. It would also be hard to justify it as a melee class.

For geomancer or green mage it's also kinda hard, we just got SGE with EW so adding another healer when the last caster job was RDM, which came out 6 years ago because both are healer coded. Geomancy specifically is already stated to be Hingan white magic and I can see the appeal of a caster that turns white magic into offense focus instead of support, the issue is THAT'S RDM, that's the entire point of RDM who focused on using the more offensive aspects of white magic to create a balance with black magic.

Honestly if we do get geomancer I'd rather that become the first tank caster instead of another healer or a dps solely because it'd be way more interesting and we have the perfect class teacher for that with Gosetsu showing us a new way to use magic and strength training.

Thinking about it, GEO would probably work as a Limited Job of sorts. Your attacks and spells change depending on where you're currently standing + the weather.