New Au Ra body scales feel like tattoos

Hi, I was told to post here to try and make my voice heard. Played Au Ra almost exclusively since I started playing and while I admit the aesthetic on the scales is a bit rough, I nevertheless enjoyed them. These new scales we've been seeing though just feel awfully flat, as if they were tattooed onto the character. By comparison, the old scales utilized contrast where the skin would meet the scales, implying the scales were growing out from the skin instead.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...69f134be52a43&

Now, I'm not 100% certain what they use because of difference between engines, but I'm familiar with making custom textures for Unity games and a change in the normalmap or bumpmap could help to mitigate this issue. This wouldn't add more polygons, of course, but by using data in the normalmap or bumpmap, the game can darken parts of the scales depending on the direction of the light to create the illusion of depth, which is one of the oldest tricks in the book. I'm sure they already use this, but I think currently whatever method they use to imply depth needs a bit of work here.

The scales look great, and I'm generally a fan of the graphics update in general, but as an Au Ra player, I'm a bit disappointed by how the scales are implemented.

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Originally Posted by ChidoriYumitori

The scales look great, and I'm generally a fan of the graphics update in general, but as an Au Ra player, I'm a bit disappointed by how the scales are implemented.

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You have to keep in mind here, this isn't the FINISHED version. It's a dev build one. I do agree that people should make their voices heard. Both as a player and an Au Ra player. But, look at what happened today. People banged the drum over limbal rings and darker skinned characters in the graphics update. And look what we got, info on the limbal rings. Multiple showings of how the update effects darker skin tones. But do try to remember that it is still a dev build. So, adjustments will likely be made.

I remember people mentioned it after the London Fanfest too but this time it's really striking how lighter and whiter the scales are compared to the original model...
I don't know if it's something I'm too attached to personally, and I think results will wildly vary depending on the skintone you pair it with, but it definitely goes against that constant promise of "keeping the image of your beloved characters".

The other thing that mildly bothers me with this is that, unless they did when I looked away for a sec, they didn't show any Xaela. Only Raen. And while I can sorta extrapolate what the new scales look like in Xaela colors...I still would've liked to see them. :(

They model they showed the GNB AF set off on was a female Xaela, but... probably hard to really tell at stream resolution anyway

A part of me feels as though they may be copying from a popular mod that upscales Au Ra scales, and for the females made the scales lighter/ less distinguished from the skin. I agree that the scales now feel like tattoos instead of having proper shading to make it feel raised. In a way, I don't mind if the scales are lighter, but making them close to white is jarring for me. And on top of that, the skin looks like rubber or plastic now. It's too shiny. Au Ra females already had smooth and soft skin and were compared to dolls, but now they actually look like dolls to me, and I hate it. I want the matte look back.

It's honestly all the Subsurface Scatterings Fault for how it seems all doll like for some.

Mostly with how Dolls generally have form/construction/shaping that gives them a pseudo look.

So I take it as the same deal in reverse is happening here.

Everyone is basically having a Layer of shine on them. (Think of it like having some layers of clearcoat applied to your previous Mattes)

Sadly though, the skin is likely a non-starter on being reverted or adjusted. Unless they add a (who knows, how they'll even make) higher res matte, when it's mostly the extra features of the system that make it look as such.

[Least it isn't as jarring, as if they went straight into BnS Oily.]

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As for scales/horns, it just is for me.

I kinda always referenced Raen and Xaela as, WhiteScales and BlackScales.

Though they tended to be more porcelain/bone offwhite, and dark blue shapped shards.

[Would be a nice surprise if the Scales/Horns had some Color choices. (yet, that's more work that we do not know if they'll consider)]

Hope you all are able to get what you desire, a toggle, a choice. or other solutions while pleasing the rest who are also happy with how it is in the images.
[or simply don't care either direction]

Least they gave us Fanta to fine tune.

But we are safe in the thoughts that they'll take feedback into account at very least.

So Keep at it.

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Originally Posted by GTK0HLK

Least they gave us Fanta to fine tune.

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Might as well raise my concern about this here then.

I think a free Fantasia is great (and honestly essential after any kind of graphical update), but when the character creator is so limited to begin with (4 faces, a few options for eye shape, eyebrows, nose, mouth, jaw, all dependent on the face you pick), "fine tuning" is going to be extremely difficult if the graphical update changes things so much that no option allows you to retain the look you've had for many years.

This is not specifically regarding Au ra scales, but a general worry I've had whenever I see that the faces they present every Fanfest have slightly changed the feeling of the character ("look at that male Elezen, doesn't he look younger and fresher now?" yeah... you said you wouldn't change the image of "our beloved characters"...), and you know there's not going to be a way back from whatever they decide to do with it in the end. A Fantasia won't fix that problem.

... And I also don't want to be pushed into using third party tools to get the original look back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SchwarzwaelderTorte

I think a free Fantasia is great (and honestly essential after any kind of graphical update), but when the character creator is so limited to begin with
"fine tuning" is going to be extremely difficult if the graphical update changes things so much that no option allows you to retain the look you've had for many years.

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Pretty much why we have to have people push for changes rather than focus solely on the expected, which is that the Fanta will always happen.

They will change and adjust.

What changed is the way the normal things occur.

say we had terrible lighting in the world, and we upgraded it. everything will look differently.
if we changed how the light works on the skin, it'll change how much light it contains and shines.
if we change the reflections of the eyes, it will give a overall different mood. More so as how the reflection actively moves depending on the position of light sources.
the textures and mapping, both will individually change how the skin reacts all on its own, or perceived shadows react.

Just like when I wanted the Glow Toggle, that was a easy mostly Binary on or off.

The rest, is more complex, and much harder to keep the same, or impossible.

They removed most of the blockyness of the races, which resulted in the shades and lines to move. Which then resulted instead of a worn rock(aged), a softer orb/stone that reflects light more and gives cleaner vibes(fresh).

Some things just happen to be the consequences of increasing quality and mapping.

Which while it may seem targeted(which is not the intention, as I'm sure it wasn't yours either)
Fantasia will be a consistent thing with this.
Unlike with us Au Ra in the past as the first Expac Race.
This is a overhaul of all that existed at conception/addition.
(unlike viera with minor changes, who are overall still the same, but much more improved like the rest.)

Fanta will always be a thing we would have to adjust, unless many turn out to be lucky enough to be happy with the changes. (we can only truly know once the Benchmark is out. Hopefully sooner, rather than later. so we can give feedback)

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Just like we got our Glow, people need to give feedback, and they'll see if they can fix it.

But Fanta(fine tunning) will always be a thing, and shouldn't be BLAMED for it.
(Nothing always ends perfectly, and it can come off as being specific at times.)

I'll be jealous of those who don't have to end up fine tuning their character. [if I have to adjust my main, and alts]

But we can't compare a binary option like Glow, to the unavoidable changes/hangups that come with larger changes.

Like the effects on skin from Subsurface Scattering.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChidoriYumitori

Hi, I was told to post here to try and make my voice heard. Played Au Ra almost exclusively since I started playing and while I admit the aesthetic on the scales is a bit rough, I nevertheless enjoyed them. These new scales we've been seeing though just feel awfully flat, as if they were tattooed onto the character. By comparison, the old scales utilized contrast where the skin would meet the scales, implying the scales were growing out from the skin instead.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...69f134be52a43&

Now, I'm not 100% certain what they use because of difference between engines, but I'm familiar with making custom textures for Unity games and a change in the normalmap or bumpmap could help to mitigate this issue. This wouldn't add more polygons, of course, but by using data in the normalmap or bumpmap, the game can darken parts of the scales depending on the direction of the light to create the illusion of depth, which is one of the oldest tricks in the book. I'm sure they already use this, but I think currently whatever method they use to imply depth needs a bit of work here.

The scales look great, and I'm generally a fan of the graphics update in general, but as an Au Ra player, I'm a bit disappointed by how the scales are implemented.

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i think they look fine, they dont exactly look amazing right now. so ill take any improvment as long as my guy is still a hottie

Looking closer, I do think the new scales look a bit off to me. I liked how you could see the old scales were very clearly resting on top of skin, while the updated version sort of looks like the scales are replacing the skin texture almost? They look much thinner in comparison. I understand some might prefer the scales look thinner, but I've always interpreted them as being a little thicker.