Seraph….

Hello fellow warriors of light,

Quick question. How do you guys like summon seraph from scholar? There have been many times I summon her to shield for an aoe and it’s 50/50 it will go off in time. She will come up and either instantly cast consolation or she will cast her single target shield first. I guess if someone has taken a little bit damage.

I know as shield healers we are proactive not reactive so instead of waiting for the cast of the enemy to start we should already have shields up. Sometimes that’s just not possible.

Possible solution: How would you guys feel if it worked like searing light from summoner l. Remember how it use to come from carbuncle then they made it cast from the summoner. How about we summon seraph then we can cast consolation from ourselves while seraph cast the veils on her own. Would that be better? Or would that destroy the fantasy of seraph a little bit?

Good day,

I think it doesn’t work because it’s a demi summon. I dislike it from a thematic standpoint too because it’s just too flashy. I would rather have a faerie buff that lets Selene’s embraces shield and bonus fey blessing with shield stacks than moving it to the caster. I don’t think it’s a good mindset on SE’s part to remove yet more pet capability over addressing the root issue, which would admittedly be rather tricky in the searing light situation.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

I think it doesn’t work because it’s a demi summon. I dislike it from a thematic standpoint too because it’s just too flashy. I would rather have a faerie buff that lets Selene’s embraces shield and bonus fey blessing with shield stacks than moving it to the caster. I don’t think it’s a good mindset on SE’s part to remove yet more pet capability over addressing the root issue, which would admittedly be rather tricky in the searing light situation.

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Yeah I understand that. I just wish consolation went off when you wanted it too and sometimes not after the enemy aoe has already went off. Granted it doesn’t happen to me often as I know the fights well enough to pre shield. It’s just those few times that you can’t and then try to clutch shield with seraph and it doesn’t work sometimes.

There is one way to solve it. They could make it function like Phoenix on SMN. So instead of having 2 charges of Consolation, make it so Seraph uses Consolation on spawn in and then one free one for you to use whenever during the timer. Reduces flexibility a little bit if you pre-plan everything, but would solve the delay somewhat.

I wish it could just cast while its doing its... spawning animation? Just have it mechanically pop in immediately, but have the animation of it flying in even if its casting a heal or the AoE during it.

Yeah I didn’t think about Phoenix. Having seraph cast it immediately after being summoned will be golden. I’d like that. Not sure how most sch mains will feel about that though? Just wish the ghosting would stop too.

I rarely had an issue because I made sure the outcome doesn’t matter whether they did Seraphic Veil first or obeys your Consolation immediately. Like you’ve said, we are more proactive than reactive so this ‘pet jank’ is also another thing that I always consider when planning out.

DO NOT turn fairy into more of an embrace bot. ‘Totem healing’ is one of SCH’s appeal. If any, I think more actions should originate from fairies.

Fantasy of seraph? IMHO they could remove it & I wouldn’t mind it. Seraph is one of those “where are you from??”-things. They could’ve just reintroduce Rouse-like button that turns Embrace into Seraphic Veil & the rouse button itself into Consolation with charges. No functionality is removed + you remove the need to wait for the Seraph making their exaggerated entrance.

I do wish all of their casts overwrites their older shields.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Fantasy of seraph? IMHO they could remove it & I wouldn’t mind it. Seraph is one of those “where are you from??”-things. They could’ve just reintroduce Rouse-like button that turns Embrace into Seraphic Veil & the rouse button itself into Consolation with charges. No functionality is removed + you remove the need to wait for the Seraph making their exaggerated entrance.

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They do already have the animation where the fairy pops in instantly (I think Feo Ul uses it too), it would be nice if Summon Seraph just used that short animation instead of the fancy entrance animation that just delays her actions.

Anyway, I agree, don't make the fairy an Embrace bot, totem healing is one of the only things remaining that's unique about SCH. Also yes, make new shields overwrite old shields so I don't have to ask people to click off their shields if I use it too early.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Fantasy of seraph? IMHO they could remove it & I wouldn’t mind it. Seraph is one of those “where are you from??”-things.

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Just make that pidgeon pet glamour for the people that like it.

As for the request, yeah, I see it coming with 7.0 if the current system stay the same : on summon seraph do a free consolation - that would be the level 100 capstone job trait ! There wasn't much they could do with the job anyway

With the new variant dungeon, there is now in-game lore to explain a Feo Ul glam option to replace Seraph. There was before basically since 5.0, but now this latest lore tidbit cements it

SE pls I don't want to see the stupid angel thing anymore it looks so 'not SCH thematic'

For game so heavy on lore and enjoyable more for it I find it baffling we got tossed Seraph as an action and 2 expansions passed with no explanation for why she's being summoned. Technically 4 expansions have passed since Seraph was in the Limit Break animation before ShB. I just wanna know why she's there and no one talks about it.

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

For game so heavy on lore and enjoyable more for it I find it baffling we got tossed Seraph as an action and 2 expansions passed with no explanation for why she's being summoned. Technically 4 expansions have passed since Seraph was in the Limit Break animation before ShB. I just wanna know why she's there and no one talks about it.

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I always wondered why scholar has seraph too. She’s not a fairy.

Angel winged fairies are common for Japanese media. Scholar fairies are supposed to have a myriad of forms, with Eos and Selene begin the most common. Seraph is most likely their true form, since it was originally only seen when the aether required for a limit break was used to summon her.

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Originally Posted by Kimmay

Angel winged fairies are common for Japanese media. Scholar fairies are supposed to have a myriad of forms, with Eos and Selene begin the most common. Seraph is most likely their true form, since it was originally only seen when the aether required for a limit break was used to summon her.

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Care to share some of those common media ? because I can't think of any (serious question, may be ambiguous since I kinda disagree with the rest of the post :x).
As for the "myriad forms". Before the last variant, there wasn't much lore-wise beside Lily, from a single soul crystal, one of the few relic from Nym (and even that just set the "fairy summon" before that era, which is completely new).
As I often say concerning that subject, the "angelic-aesthetic" of tied to Amdapor, and it wasn't really Nym's ally. I mean, sure, some knowledge trade may have occurred, but that wouldn't be a "true form" and we may as well have a "demonic fairy" from Mach before they went all full war. (maybe we'll get that with the time-travel expansion that send us then ? XD )

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

With the new variant dungeon, there is now in-game lore to explain a Feo Ul glam option to replace Seraph. There was before basically since 5.0, but now this latest lore tidbit cements it

SE pls I don't want to see the stupid angel thing anymore it looks so 'not SCH thematic'

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What exactly is the SCH thematic anyway? Is it tech? Is it nature healing? Pixie? Orator? Who can say.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

What exactly is the SCH thematic anyway? Is it tech? Is it nature healing? Pixie? Orator? Who can say.

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Yes, but also no.

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Originally Posted by Calysto

Care to share some of those common media ? because I can't think of any (serious question, may be ambiguous since I kinda disagree with the rest of the post :x).
As for the "myriad forms". Before the last variant, there wasn't much lore-wise beside Lily, from a single soul crystal, one of the few relic from Nym (and even that just set the "fairy summon" before that era, which is completely new).
As I often say concerning that subject, the "angelic-aesthetic" of tied to Amdapor, and it wasn't really Nym's ally. I mean, sure, some knowledge trade may have occurred, but that wouldn't be a "true form" and we may as well have a "demonic fairy" from Mach before they went all full war. (maybe we'll get that with the time-travel expansion that send us then ? XD )

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For Final Fantasy, we have Faerie. In Kingdom Hearts 2, Yuna's "wings" are the angel wings in her hair. Obviously Seraph in 14, which is stated to be the scholar's fairy in the lore book. For Digimon, there are various fairy Digimon with feathered wings, such as Piximon and Luminamon. Card Captor Sakura has Keroberos as a feathered winged pixie sort of stuffed animal, Sakura wears a fairy costume that has a feathered wing for the lower set, and I believe that one of the cards is a pixie of sorts with feathered wings. In Yugi-Oh, we have various Fairy cards. While most of the "Fairy" are actually Angel in Japanese, some like Dancing Fairy are explicitly called fairies. In Pokemon, while not literally winged, Blissey of the fairy egg group and Mega Audino of the fairy type both have an angel wing motif. In Guardian Fairy Michel, Michel has angel wings. For Sailor Moon, Queen Serenity and Neo-Queen Serenity have fairy wings on their dress. In her transition to Neo-Queen Serenity, Usagi gets wings as Eternal Sailor Moon. While they are angel wings, they are also two sets: one large and one small, in the typical shape that fairy wings take. Is that enough?

The lore book specifically states that the fairies come in at least 2 forms, while also talking about a third: Seraph. Obviously that's written that way to allow the team to create as many forms as they please, even if nothing ever came of it. The same book makes it clear, without a doubt, that Seraph is not only the scholar's fairy but that it is her healing the party when a scholar uses their limit break.

There's lots of things SCH's faerie should be able to do. The Summon Seraph ability Seraphic Illumination should be more powered up version of Fey Illumination (10% magic healing up and 5% magic damage reduction) and the same with Whispering Dawn/Angel's Whisper (both 80 potency for 21 seconds...extra second to try to fix the quirky ghosting and animation). Instead, they're just the same abilities with a different coat of paint. The fact that Seraph locks you out of Fey Blessing while turning the Summon Seraph ability into two uses of Consolation is also odd. At least Embrace (180 potency) powers up a little when it changes to Seraphic Veil (180 potency + shield).

I do wish using Seraph was more responsive, but the animations delay things with the SCH pets. Maybe having Consolation go off right as she's summoned would be nice. It's just one of those things that you get used to and plan around once you learn fights or pulls in dungeons. If you're trying to use Seraph's AoE shields while a boss is casting a raid wide attack, then it's usually too late and the shield will apply after the bosses damage has already gone out.

As for the lore of why we have Seraph....a SCH's faerie is kind of like an advanced Arcanist Carbuncle (I mean we can turn the faerie into one of 3 Carby colors now) and Seraph is more advanced/powerful construct form of the faerie. I feel like the reason why they put Seraph into SCH's toolkit in the first place was that Faerie and Seraph were healing summons in other FF games. Faerie was first seen in Final Fantasy Tactics as a healing summons if I recall and she actually had feathered wings in that game. Then Seraph was in FFVI and was a big early healer summon/magicite (Angel Feathers being the signature ability). This makes sense as SCH branches off of Arcanist with the Carbuncle summon and then has Summoner with Ifrit, Garuda, Titan etc as a sibling job. The Faerie we use in XIV is a construct that was created by Surito Carito and saved in his soul crystal essentially.

This is from an old interview at a 2014 Fanfest with Koji Fox:

A: To follow up on a question from the stream earlier- the taxonomy that fairies fall into. Is there an origin to how they become fairies of Scholars. Were they fairies and then bound to scholars or did the scholars create them?

MCKF: Yes, the second one. Fairies again, while they fall under the taxonomy of elementals, they are actually beings that were created. They did not exist before. The Scholar would take the energies and elements from around them and would basically create these beings that were made of the elements.

A: Those are bound to the soul crystal then and passed from one person to the next where carbuncle is more one per person.

It also gets discussed more in this forum thread https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post3980681

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Originally Posted by Kimmay

For Final Fantasy, we have Faerie. In Kingdom Hearts 2, Yuna's "wings" are the angel wings in her hair. Obviously Seraph in 14, which is stated to be the scholar's fairy in the lore book. For Digimon, there are various fairy Digimon with feathered wings, such as Piximon and Luminamon. Card Captor Sakura has Keroberos as a feathered winged pixie sort of stuffed animal, Sakura wears a fairy costume that has a feathered wing for the lower set, and I believe that one of the cards is a pixie of sorts with feathered wings. In Yugi-Oh, we have various Fairy cards. While most of the "Fairy" are actually Angel in Japanese, some like Dancing Fairy are explicitly called fairies. In Pokemon, while not literally winged, Blissey of the fairy egg group and Mega Audino of the fairy type both have an angel wing motif. In Guardian Fairy Michel, Michel has angel wings. For Sailor Moon, Queen Serenity and Neo-Queen Serenity have fairy wings on their dress. In her transition to Neo-Queen Serenity, Usagi gets wings as Eternal Sailor Moon. While they are angel wings, they are also two sets: one large and one small, in the typical shape that fairy wings take. Is that enough?

The lore book specifically states that the fairies come in at least 2 forms, while also talking about a third: Seraph. Obviously that's written that way to allow the team to create as many forms as they please, even if nothing ever came of it. The same book makes it clear, without a doubt, that Seraph is not only the scholar's fairy but that it is her healing the party when a scholar uses their limit break.

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Thanks.
I'm not really agreeing with some of these being classified as fairies but maybe that's just me. (I'd also argue about the wing-count thing as it's also sometime used for angelic ranking)
I don't own the lore book so I'll trust you on that.

This. I would rather reintroduce Rouse than Seraph. In my opinion this was just their way to say SCH can have a demi summon much like SMN.

I don’t foresee Seraph being removed in the future ever. The commitment of Summon Seraph was very high, involving a new model with multiple new animations to accompany it, so removing it at this point would make Seraph a big net loss, which isn’t an appealing option. I suppose it’s theoretically possible to convert her to another glamour for your normal faerie to salvage those efforts, but even more than that, Seraph is too ‘exciting’ of a tool to remove without disappointing the common player, because the common player does not see a clunky mess of an action, they see an epic healing cooldown.

I think the best possible solution at this point would be to resolve whatever issue prevents a player from having more than one summoned pet at once, and simply have Seraph be summoned without dismissing Eos. It’s a problem that Summoner really wants to see resolved as well, as that would mean they could give Carbuncle actual tools to use without conflicting with the constant Demi-summoning summoner will likely always be doing for the rest of its lifespan.

I would be fine removing Seraph if they replaced it with something equally exciting that fits more into the aesthetics. For me, I find the name Seraph being problematic to begin with because a seraph is an angel or angelic being by definition and not a fae or faelike. They could just add Seraph as an additional summon for Summoner if they didn't want the work going to waste.

As for what to add, maybe for SCH another debuff that helps support the party but being with a more complex animation with a complex condition. Something like reduce enemy defenses (more damage for the party) and having it double as a dot while in play. Then adding that risky behavior only in Dissipation but allowing Dissipation no lock out to any of the skills with other beneficial gains such as higher shields and higher damage to be more synergistic. (Perhaps an additional damaging skill usable in Dissipation as another complex animation skill since we are heading into a 100 cap, though I believe we should have stopped getting entirely new heals at lvl 70 even for the more inexperienced healer and allowed for the older skills to evolve into the newer ones as a sense of progression.)

I hate Seraph because in the same breath that they tried to solve pet AI they moved all pet actions to SCH oGCD and introduced Seraph who can straight up eat those actions both when she's summoned and when she leaves.

In other words, you still have to preplan or risk not getting your shields when want them, but now you also don't have to just worry about mistiming the effects but also them straight up not firing. Old Faerie may have delayed some shit but she always got around to it barring her death. Seraph also locks out some of your actions for some goddamn reason. She's just Rouse (old ACN action that boosted your pet damage and healing) with more, dumber, clunkier steps, and her only appeal is to players that like looking at their game more than playing it. Doesn't even fit into the damn lore.