Please Fix The Leveling Roulette System

For the last 6 months, whenever I do my Leveling roulette, I only get the exact same 4 dungeons without exception:

Bardam's Mettle
Mt. Gulg
Ktisis Hypeboreia
The Aitiascope

This is supposed to be a "Roulette", which means every main story dungeon in all 5 expansions are supposed to be a part of the Roulette. But getting these same dungeons every single time with no variety has resulted in me getting bored of the game because nothing interesting comes up. I feel like my loyalty to this game for the past 10 years is being wasted and that frustrates me.

Please fix the Leveling roulette because to quote Christian Bale in Batman Begins "Your system is broken."

Most of the time, it matches you with people who queue directly for these duties. Usually this is people doing the duty for the first time, but occasionally it is because someone is farming glam or something like that.

There is a lot less reason to be doing it for the first time because you can do it with NPCs now though.

So, it is ultimately players that are causing it.

It’s a roulette in the sense that you don’t know what you’re going to get, but not that you are guaranteed an even distribution of duties. As Jeeqbit said, the roulettes offer you rewards in exchange for you offering to fill others’ parties through the queuing system.

Off the top of my head, those last two dungeons have untradeable, rare minion drops so it makes sense that people would be trying to direct-queue those more. Bardam’s has unique (undyeable) glam, not sure on Mt. Gulg.

So a roulette literally means you can get any of the dungeons. I myself have "join in progress" checked off to give me a chance at multiple.

You also listed two separate roulettes there. The 70/80 and then the 90.

Neither of those really have alot in them.

Leveling has them all I think except the two expert but even then...it happens.

Was like back before change when we all did msq roulette and complained cause we got castrum was more then praetorium but stuck with it and got days straight of the opposite.

Bardam's and Mt. Gulg are both heavy MSQ relevant dungeons so it makes sense they come up often. As for the other two they still have a minion that only drops from them and they can't be bought on the marketboard. so you may be getting more minion hunters running those for it.

Others have already clarified that the roulette is working as expected; in short, the goal of the roulette isn't to give you a random experience, it's the game saying they'll give you rewards in exchange for doing the content another player wants to do.

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Originally Posted by Novaura

But getting these same dungeons every single time with no variety has resulted in me getting bored of the game because nothing interesting comes up.

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With respect, if you want variety, remember that you have the ability to intentionally queue for a handful of dungeons that you haven't done in awhile.

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

I myself have "join in progress" checked off to give me a chance at multiple.

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I don't see how that changes anything.

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You also listed two separate roulettes there. The 70/80 and then the 90.

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No, all the listed duties are part of the leveling roulette. Level 70/80 roulette and level 90 roulette only give level 50/60/70/80 and level 90 duties respectively. None of the listed duties are 70, 80 or 90.

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Leveling has them all I think except the two expert

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Not true.
Leveling has 1-49, 51-59, 61-69, 71-79, 81-89 dungeons.
Level 50/60/70/80 has... level 50/60/70/80 dungeons.
Level 90 has... level 90 dungeons, minus the latest ones in Expert roulette.

yet another person who thinks roulette isn't a bonus. ugh.

the point of roulette isn't to only benefit you -- it's to benefit those who are also queued. what you get (exp, gil, etc) are meant to offset the fact that you're not always going to be placed into the ideal situation.

The roulettes can absolutely be improved. There is nothing about having more control over the outcome of the roulette that goes against its purpose (and having choice is just an extension of having multiple roulettes - if choice didn't work then mentor roulette would be the only one), and yes that includes the purpose of helping fill queues. If better roulette outcomes increase participation, and people with different preferences queue you could very easily end up with a net increase in roulette population while also preventing repetition, monotony, and general dissatisfaction.

A hypothetical roulette bias system or duty blacklist would need to be evaluated carefully of course. There is a chance that one particular duty that is universally disliked it avoided, which would make queueing for it difficult, but even in that case that's not completely a bad thing. That's a big flag that something might be wrong with that duty.

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Originally Posted by Denji

yet another person who thinks roulette isn't a bonus. ugh.

the point of roulette isn't to only benefit you -- it's to benefit those who are also queued. what you get (exp, gil, etc) are meant to offset the fact that you're not always going to be placed into the ideal situation.

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I'm not doing this for any bonus. I want to be able to play more dungeons than just the same 4 over and over. There are 32 dungeons that are available to play in Leveling roulette. Therefore I should have a 1 in 32 chance of playing any of these dungeons, not a 1 in 4 chance of playing only a specific set of dungeons. The point is to want to have fun, take on the various bosses and challenges associated with the dungeons, enjoy some amazing dungeon and boss music and if it is indeed a player's first time doing the dungeon, to give them the best experience possible.

Yeah. As others have pointed out, leveling roulette isn't a true roulette. There is almost always going to be a least one player who has queued for a specific duty and the roulette will match the other players with them. There will almost always be a player leveling a new job, or making their way through the MSQ. The latter is more likely to use the duty support feature though as it allows for a more immersive experience with the story.

The only way for it to truly be a roulette would require all four players in the queue to be at level cap and utilizing the leveling roulette feature.

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Originally Posted by Novaura

I'm not doing this for any bonus. I want to be able to play more dungeons than just the same 4 over and over. There are 32 dungeons that are available to play in Leveling roulette. Therefore I should have a 1 in 32 chance of playing any of these dungeons, not a 1 in 4 chance of playing only a specific set of dungeons. The point is to want to have fun, take on the various bosses and challenges associated with the dungeons, enjoy some amazing dungeon and boss music and if it is indeed a player's first time doing the dungeon, to give them the best experience possible.

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Then que directly for a random dungeon. Then the leveling roulette will fill in the extra players.

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Originally Posted by Poporito_Popoto

Then que directly for a random dungeon. Then the leveling roulette will fill in the extra players.

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This is dismissive and misses the point entirely. Stop parroting this crap to fish for likes. If players want to do a specific duty, they will queue for it directly. This player doesn't want a specific duty, he wants a more randomized selection when using the match making feature of the game.

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Originally Posted by Poporito_Popoto

Then que directly for a random dungeon. Then the leveling roulette will fill in the extra players.

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They won't because they want the reward/shorter queue time more than they want to play a variety of dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Novaura

There are 32 dungeons that are available to play in Leveling roulette. Therefore I should have a 1 in 32 chance of playing any of these dungeons, not a 1 in 4 chance of playing only a specific set of dungeons.

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Probability is something that humans are innately bad at, so it's no surprise that you are making a very common and reasonable mistake here. Because yes, there are 32 different dungeons, but they are not weighted equally. The weighting for each individual dungeon is relative to the number of players that are intentionally trying to queue for that dungeon.

For example, if the overall dungeon queue is empty except for 3 players who intentionally queued for Bardam's Mettle, and you queued as a job that can complete that group, you have a 100% chance of being sent to Bardam's Mettle. If there's a similar situation where 3 players are queued for Bardam's Mettle and 3 players are queued for Mt. Gulg, you have a 50% chance of being sent to either of them. And in both of these cases, you notably have a 0% chance of being sent to any of the other dungeons.

This is because the goal of the Leveling Roulette isn't to give the person queuing for it a random experience; the goal is to use your body to fill in empty slots in groups. In exchange for that, the Leveling Roulette gives you some bonuses.

All of which is to demonstrate how the Leveling Roulette has been explicitly designed to provide certain experiences, none of which are what you are after. Hopefully understanding how the Leveling Roulette actually works will help you better make informed decisions about whether or not you want to use it in the future.

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Originally Posted by Novaura

I'm not doing this for any bonus. I want to be able to play more dungeons than just the same 4 over and over.

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If you aren't doing it for the bonus, that's good news! That means that you won't be missing out on anything if you simply queue for one or more dungeons that you actually want to do. That's what I'd recommend based on what you've said here.

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

See what I wrote above to see why this actually isn't true.

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See what I wrote and see that it doesn't apply to what you stated. What you stated are cases where any of several non capped duties have been selected by players. What I stated is the only case where leveling roulette would actually truly choose a random duty. And that is when all four players that are matched up have not queued for anything specifically. At any point in time, you can make a party of four players and use the leveling roulette. The duty finder will indeed choose a random dungeon for you to do out of all the leveling dungeons, including the NM versions of Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan.

This is something that veteran players are going to just have to swallow. The roulette's purpose is to help traffic players trying to queue up to specific instances. The randomness in essence is on what duty a number of players are going for at the time you hit the queue button.

Thats why you have endgame currency tied to it so that it entices players to facilitate that system since everything is super bound to the duty finder in this MMO. Basically, sorry but it is what it is. Either you accept it or find something else to get your tomestones from if it bothers you that much.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

See what I wrote and see that it doesn't apply to what you stated.

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I think you misunderstood what text I was trying to direct you at, though that's completely fair since it was just one among my numerous paragraphs. Here's what I was talking about:

In fact, due to player requests, the Leveling Roulette has been made less random. You might think that if you queue for the Leveling Roulette with a full group of 4 that you could be sent to any dungeon, and that they would all be equally weighted because you're not being matched with a group? But anyone thinking that would be wrong! If you queue with a complete group, the Leveling Roulette will never send you to a dungeon that is more than 10 levels below the lowest level member of your party.

Though that said, there's the possibility that I'm confused and talking about the Limited Leveling option. I don't believe so, as I recall either Zepla or Mr Happy talking about this as a new change within the past few months. Though maybe they were wrong, or maybe I just misinterpreted what they were saying? That's always possible.

By any chance, have you done a Leveling Roulette with a full group recently with a max level group and been sent to a significantly lower level dungeon? If so that would verify that what I'm talking about isn't an innate part of the Leveling Roulette.

EDIT:
Sounds like I was wrong on this! Leaving this post mostly intact just for the context of the thread.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

This is dismissive and misses the point entirely. Stop parroting this crap to fish for likes. If players want to do a specific duty, they will queue for it directly. This player doesn't want a specific duty, he wants a more randomized selection when using the match making feature of the game.

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"fish for likes" lol

It's very apt in this case because OP isnt even in it for the bonus. Duty roulette isnt there to give you a random dungeon, it's there to bribe you into filling up parties to whoever queues up for a specific dungeon.

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

I think you misunderstood what text I was trying to direct you at, though that's completely fair since it was just one among my numerous paragraphs.

Though that said, there's the possibility that I'm confused and talking about the Limited Leveling option. I don't believe so, as I recall either Zepla or Mr Happy talking about this as a new change within the past few months. Though maybe they were wrong, or maybe I just misinterpreted what they were saying? That's always possible.

By any chance, have you done a Leveling Roulette with a full group recently with a max level group and been sent to a significantly lower level dungeon? If so that would verify that what I'm talking about isn't an innate part of the Leveling Roulette.

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Fair enough. And it does sound like you're referring to the limited leveling option, which will prioritize the lowest level member of the matched party. In the case where all players are lv90, they will not get a dungeon lower than level 81. Only one player, including a non leader can have this option enabled and will be active for the entire group.

I can't speak for Zepla or Happy. However, my FC and I often group up to do roulettes, and we have most certainly have gotten duties well below 10 levels of us. There's no point having a limited leveling option if the game just does this by default.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

"fish for likes" lol

It's very apt in this case because OP isnt even in it for the bonus. Duty roulette isnt there to give you a random dungeon, it's there to bribe you into filling up parties to whoever queues up for a specific dungeon.

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That's a fair take. I believe the OP understands this and is just frustrated with getting the same duties over and over. He might not have the luxury of having three other buddies to queue up with, but in any case it doesn't help when a poster tries to address the issue by echoing erroneous advice that doesn't address his problem. If the OP was trying to get a specific duty by using the Leveling roulette, then that particular advice would apply.

Uses system designed to fill specific dungeons that other people queue for, then gets upset that it puts them in specific dungeons that the other people queued for.

???

Personally, I'm just glad it isn't Sastasha all day every day anymore.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

However, my FC and I often group up to do roulettes, and we have most certainly have gotten duties well below 10 levels of us. There's no point having a limited leveling option if the game just does this by default.

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That's verification enough for me! Sounds like I was mistaken; thanks for the correction, as I can now remove the misinformation from my previous posts!

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Originally Posted by Gemina

This is dismissive and misses the point entirely. Stop parroting this crap to fish for likes. If players want to do a specific duty, they will queue for it directly. This player doesn't want a specific duty, he wants a more randomized selection when using the match making feature of the game.

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<Sees number of posts and gold medals>

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a8/82...d809de246f.gif

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

This is something that veteran players are going to just have to swallow. The roulette's purpose is to help traffic players trying to queue up to specific instances.

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The roulette system is just as much a valid target for criticism as any other part of the game. That it's designed to fill queues doesn't make it special and doesn't really have anything to do with the issue being brought up. The only kind of change that is going to be problematic is one that prevent roulettes from achieving its dungeon filling purpose. Attempting to bias roulette results in a certain way is not such a change.

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The randomness in essence is on what duty a number of players are going for at the time you hit the queue button.

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This element will always be there, but it is trivially easy to influence the weights of different outcomes. The most obvious one, and I'm using this for the sake of example here, is a blacklist that totally prevents a selected a dungeons from being accepted as a roulette outcome. If a player had the option to blacklist Sastasha and did, then that player would never see the dungeon in roulettes even if the rest of the data center was queuing for it.

A more realistic option may not involve completely removing duties (although if the pool of roulette participants is large enough and have diverse blacklist options, the problems vanishe) but instead do something like shuffle the order of participants in the queue to help them get into duties they prefer. The roulette system already has some capacity to do this because you already can blacklist dungeons by not unlocking them or by using one of the multiple roulette options to avoid certain content (no Sastasha in Expert roulette for example), so this doesn't even require a rework of roulette outside of new UI.

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Either you accept it or find something else to get your tomestones from if it bothers you that much.

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That defeats the point of the forum though. Asking for roulette improvements is perfectly valid, as is asking for any improvements at all. I don't understand why people seemingly forget that so often when this topic is brought up.

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

The roulette system is just as much a valid target for criticism as any other part of the game. That it's designed to fill queues doesn't make it special and doesn't really have anything to do with the issue being brought up. The only kind of change that is going to be problematic is one that prevent roulettes from achieving its dungeon filling purpose. Attempting to bias roulette results in a certain way is not such a change.


This element will always be there, but it is trivially easy to influence the weights of different outcomes. The most obvious one, and I'm using this for the sake of example here, is a blacklist that totally prevents a selected a dungeons from being accepted as a roulette outcome. If a player had the option to blacklist Sastasha and did, then that player would never see the dungeon in roulettes even if the rest of the data center was queuing for it.

A more realistic option may not involve completely removing duties (although if the pool of roulette participants is large enough and have diverse blacklist options, the problems vanishe) but instead do something like shuffle the order of participants in the queue to help them get into duties they prefer. The roulette system already has some capacity to do this because you already can blacklist dungeons by not unlocking them or by using one of the multiple roulette options to avoid certain content (no Sastasha in Expert roulette for example), so this doesn't even require a rework of roulette outside of new UI.


That defeats the point of the forum though. Asking for roulette improvements is perfectly valid, as is asking for any improvements at all. I don't understand why people seemingly forget that so often when this topic is brought up.

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Yeah I dont think "blacklisting" certain dungeons isnt going to help much for players who do need to do those old duties. If anything that's just going to break the system even more. Its why criticizing the roulette is meaningless because we get changes such as the recent ilv alliance roulette change that does hurt newer players more than veteran players.

Its seriously that simple

OP's argument is valid. The Raid "Roulette" has the same issue, defaulting to P12 most of the time despite the vast variety of options available and no indication that there isn't anyone queueing for them. Not even P9-11 show up as often.

The claim that the roulettes are attempting to fill someone's party has some merit, as you'll occasionally get a fringe raid with a DPS party leader who's also a first timer, but to say that it always does this is a misconception. When it picks P12, there's a good chance it's putting 8 different rouletters in there. And this logic completely falls apart when you remember where the Alliance Raid "Roulette" sends you, while people wait hours trying to do the Stormblood raids.

Saying "MSQ dungeons are bound to pop up" also doesn't make sense when the Leveling roulette...consists only of those. It doesn't explain why only those few dungeons in particular would continuously show up for him and not all of the others. Many of them have minions/music rolls/cards/glamour too.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Yeah I dont think "blacklisting" certain dungeons isnt going to help much for players who do need to do those old duties.

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I was using that mainly as an example because it's easy to follow, but as I also said before, blacklisting duties already exists through intentionally skipping quests that unlocks duties and by having more than one roulette. A blacklist would have to be looked at carefully before being added, but it's not really much of a change compared to now anyway.

There are other options like queue list shuffling that I mentioned, so either way if the blacklist concept bothers you there are plenty of alternatives.

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If anything that's just going to break the system even more. Its why criticizing the roulette is meaningless because we get changes such as the recent ilv alliance roulette change that does hurt newer players more than veteran players.

Its seriously that simple

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That basically boils down to saying that criticism is pointless because SE will botch things. While that is a possibility, and it has sometimes happened, wouldn't the better solution be to improve communication instead of going for complete silence? You'll fail some of the time if you try but you'll never succeed if you don't try.

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Originally Posted by VictorSpoils

OP's argument is valid. The Raid "Roulette" has the same issue, defaulting to P12 most of the time despite the vast variety of options available and no indication that there isn't anyone queueing for them. Not even P9-11 show up as often.

The claim that the roulettes are attempting to fill someone's party has some merit, as you'll occasionally get a fringe raid with a DPS party leader who's also a first timer, but to say that it always does this is a misconception. When it picks P12, there's a good chance it's putting 8 different rouletters in there. And this logic completely falls apart when you remember where the Alliance Raid "Roulette" sends you, while people wait hours trying to do the Stormblood raids.

Saying "MSQ dungeons are bound to pop up" also doesn't make sense when the Leveling roulette...consists only of those. It doesn't explain why only those few dungeons in particular would continuously show up for him and not all of the others. Many of them have minions/music rolls/cards/glamour too.

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Arent people directly queueing p12n for the weapon token? I know I did for a while.

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Originally Posted by Novaura

For the last 6 months, whenever I do my Leveling roulette, I only get the exact same 4 dungeons without exception:

Bardam's Mettle
Mt. Gulg
Ktisis Hypeboreia
The Aitiascope

This is supposed to be a "Roulette", which means every main story dungeon in all 5 expansions are supposed to be a part of the Roulette. But getting these same dungeons every single time with no variety has resulted in me getting bored of the game because nothing interesting comes up. I feel like my loyalty to this game for the past 10 years is being wasted and that frustrates me.

Please fix the Leveling roulette because to quote Christian Bale in Batman Begins "Your system is broken."

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Might be a dumb question but do you have all the dungeons unlocked? I remember this one time I was leveling an alt job and kept getting the same leveling roulettes over and over again, only to discover later there were like three or four really old dungeons I never unlocked. Once I did, I started getting more variety in the queue.

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Originally Posted by Novaura

I'm not doing this for any bonus. I want to be able to play more dungeons than just the same 4 over and over. There are 32 dungeons that are available to play in Leveling roulette. Therefore I should have a 1 in 32 chance of playing any of these dungeons, not a 1 in 4 chance of playing only a specific set of dungeons. The point is to want to have fun, take on the various bosses and challenges associated with the dungeons, enjoy some amazing dungeon and boss music and if it is indeed a player's first time doing the dungeon, to give them the best experience possible.

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the point is that the bonus is meant to sweeten the deal for getting something that might otherwise be unfavourable or ho-hum. so, no. you don't understand. or you might now, idk. the thread's a bajillion replies long now but my point stands.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Arent people directly queueing p12n for the weapon token? I know I did for a while.

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Yes, the reason you see P12 so much is because people are just queueing that one only to get the weapon material, you don't need the others for anything anymore.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Arent people directly queueing p12n for the weapon token? I know I did for a while.

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Key words being "for a while." All these months later and barely anyone has the tome weapons, likely because the cakewalk relics are better and people want armor instead. There are also people appearing back-to-back in P12 despite being limited to one token weekly, even towards the end of the week when no one would be grabbing it. If the roulette prioritizes P12 this hard, anyone queuing for any other raid would be SoL.

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Originally Posted by VictorSpoils

Key words being "for a while." All these months later and barely anyone has the tome weapons, likely because the cakewalk relics are better and people want armor instead. There are also people appearing back-to-back in P12 despite being limited to one token weekly, even towards the end of the week when no one would be grabbing it. If the roulette prioritizes P12 this hard, anyone queuing for any other raid would be SoL.

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Umm...back when I was doing P12 specifically for that relic token, it was usually the final run I did for a week, meaning it was usually on a Sunday or Monday. I would not doubt there are likewise plenty of other people queuing specifically for P12 throughout an entire week, not just at the beginning.

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Originally Posted by EorzeaWanderer

It’s a roulette in the sense that you don’t know what you’re going to get, .

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Duty Roulette is like a box of chocolates...

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Originally Posted by Novaura

For the last 6 months, whenever I do my Leveling roulette, I only get the exact same 4 dungeons without exception:

Bardam's Mettle
Mt. Gulg
Ktisis Hypeboreia
The Aitiascope

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same except for me its always

aurum vale
dzmael darkhold
cutters cry
sohm al

getting the same crap in roulette all the times just kills any joy this game provides