In DAWNTRAILS, will 1 or 2 primals be added to Summoner's rotation?

Even though we still have a while to go for the JP Fanfest, DT media tours, etc. As far as Summoner goes, do you think they will add another primal or two to the rotation? I will be honest with you, I do miss some of the spells from the old summoner like Shadow Flare & the original use for BANE.

Will Leviathan be added? I would love to see Ramuh be added to the rotation!!

They should add Levy, Ramuh and Shiva.

They will probably add one.

Their rotation is fine as it is, probably just gonna see new OGCDs added to it... Unless they completely rework the class, again.

Hopefully a Physick buff that's like 3 expansions late, to make it scale with INT rather than MND like RDM's Vercure does...

With how SMN is now, I fully expect that any new primals added will just be a reskin for the current ones based on whether you used Bahamut or Phoenix.

Either that or they become fire and forget oGCDs.

Passive changes Physik to AoE Heal Summon.

Fester and Energy Drain get renamed/modeled into Primal abilities.

I could see them taking the lazy route and just adding ramuh, leviathan and shiva as upgrades to Titan, ifrit and garuda in the Phoenix phase spread out across the 10 levels then giving us an elder primal like Odin as the capstone new demi summon which would then set them up for a holding pattern into the future (next expansion Sephirot, sophia, zurvan in the Odin phase with capstone Alexander).

If they were gonna put in a little more work, I’d personally love them to get rid of all traces of arcanist from the job, energy drain/siphon, fester and painflare really feel like button bloat at this point that could just be removed and have their potency added elsewhere, maybe they could remove physick and resurrection and give carbuncle healing ruby and some new revive move as oGCDs to A. Give carbuncle some love B. Differentiate it more from RDM. And if we’re really talking wishlist, remove ruin too, replace it with summon assault I and II making carbuncle perform an attack (that’s basically ruin but now it’s actually a pet doing something!) which then upgrades to wyrm wave when you summon Bahamut etc. with potency adjusted accordingly.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Their rotation is fine as it is, probably just gonna see new OGCDs added to it... Unless they completely rework the class, again.

Hopefully a Physick buff that's like 3 expansions late, to make it scale with INT rather than MND like RDM's Vercure does...

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In all likelihood they'll flat out remove Physick or leave it be, they already mentioned getting rid of rez for smn, they just didnt during latest rework cause they wanted to see how well it plays for now.

As for new summons, if we get any new they'll prolly act as "upgrade" skills to current one or add them as a 2nd set of summons, baha>OG summons>enix>new summons>baha, kind of deal.

Hopefully all the new primal spells are casts with proper unique mechanics of their own and the summons stay for a while instead of showing up just to immediately leave back to their home planet

I could see getting three new demis as alterations to the current three when going into phoenix phase. I doubt they'd want to change the existing flow of the job too much again this soon after the rework, so that makes the most sense to me. There's always a chance they'll want to stick to their """lore reasons""" for why we can't get new ones though, but that's bollocks at this point anyway, with everything the WoL has been able to do.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

I could see them taking the lazy route and just adding ramuh, leviathan and shiva as upgrades to Titan, ifrit and garuda in the Phoenix phase spread out across the 10 levels then giving us an elder primal like Odin as the capstone new demi summon which would then set them up for a holding pattern into the future (next expansion Sephirot, sophia, zurvan in the Odin phase with capstone Alexander).

If they were gonna put in a little more work, I’d personally love them to get rid of all traces of arcanist from the job, energy drain/siphon, fester and painflare really feel like button bloat at this point that could just be removed and have their potency added elsewhere, maybe they could remove physick and resurrection and give carbuncle healing ruby and some new revive move as oGCDs to A. Give carbuncle some love B. Differentiate it more from RDM. And if we’re really talking wishlist, remove ruin too, replace it with summon assault I and II making carbuncle perform an attack (that’s basically ruin but now it’s actually a pet doing something!) which then upgrades to wyrm wave when you summon Bahamut etc. with potency adjusted accordingly.

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They wouldn't give us Odin or Alexander due to how those two work and one's signature move being a KO. Unless they go the XI route where Odin was just a big hit for most things and Alexander was a very strong shield. I don't think they'll give us more primals. I feel they'll go back to making the rotation more complex than how brain dead it is. I do hope that they do make physic scale with int and that carbuncle gets to gain some moves of its own back.

A better question would be why do people always add an S to the end of every expansion name. It is DAWNTRAIL. La la la la la

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Originally Posted by Mayhemmer

I could see getting three new demis as alterations to the current three when going into phoenix phase. I doubt they'd want to change the existing flow of the job too much again this soon after the rework, so that makes the most sense to me. There's always a chance they'll want to stick to their """lore reasons""" for why we can't get new ones though, but that's bollocks at this point anyway, with everything the WoL has been able to do.

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Yeah I’d really like to see Levi, Shiva and Ramuh added… and give us matching Carby colors to choose from too. They could always give us a special quest to deal with the lore if they wanted, but really this is probably the easiest way to give us new attacks and animations without causing button bloat.

As for other things, I like having the rez. But if we’re still going to have Physic, could we at least have the potency upped to the level of a Second Wind or (dreaming!) Vercure? I have hit it occasionally as a panic heal but it doesn’t do anywhere near enough to be useful, so make it stronger or get rid of it. Also, if they’re going to keep SCH and SMN tied together through their Arcanist roots, then give us Expedience too. lol

Phoenix needs its own subset of primals like others have said, ramuh, shiva and Levi. Probably a hard hitting 1 minute oGCD like Odin.

Or they could go another route by expanding the existing 3 primals by adding 1 or 2 more abilities.

What Summoner?

: )

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Originally Posted by SannaR

They wouldn't give us Odin or Alexander due to how those two work and one's signature move being a KO. Unless they go the XI route where Odin was just a big hit for most things and Alexander was a very strong shield. I don't think they'll give us more primals. I feel they'll go back to making the rotation more complex than how brain dead it is. I do hope that they do make physic scale with int and that carbuncle gets to gain some moves of its own back.

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None of our existing demis use their ultimates. Bahamut uses the made up wyrmwave for his auto attack and his enkindle is his tankbuster from T13, Akh Morn. Phoenix uses scarlet flame, another made up move, and Revelation, his tankbuster from T12. It follows that Odin would then use Sanngetall, his tankbuster from Urth’s fount and Alexander would use Punishing Heat his tankbuster from A12 while their auto attack could be anything and like Phoenix’s everlasting flight they could throw any random gimmick in on their summoning to make them unique like giving Alexander a shield.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Their rotation is fine as it is.

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agreed summoner is currently perfecto they dont need to go and ruin it

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Originally Posted by ryouma17

agreed summoner is currently perfecto they dont need to go and ruin it

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If they add the other 3 primals though, the basic rotation is still in place: demi, 1, 2, 3, repeat. :)

Obviously they should introduce all three of the remaining elemental primals at once, no half-assed hackjob "it's incomplete now so that it can be expanded on in the future" bs.

Ramuh could give you a placed spell that shoots lightning at the selected area which leaves a lightning orb that when you collect it gives you an additional powerup (or the ability to use it).

Shiva should 100% be a transformation into Shiva complete with a new Warrior-of-Light model for Shiva that we haven't seen before - if Ryne and Ysayle get their own Shiva versions, so should we. Also she should not be gender-ambiguous, because while the WoL might be male, Shiva is a female summon. We should be able to fight as Shiva during that time complete with melee combo and spellcasting and Diamond Dust finisher. If we merely get to summon Shiva as an external entity I'll be mad and consider it a missed opportunity to do something cool and unique that's in line with 14's lore.


How to go about it mechanically?

After demi-summoning you get three jewels that come in packs of two - the first one is gonna be either Ifrit or Shiva, the second one either Titan or Leviathan and the third one either Garuda or Ramuh. After summoning all three you do the second demi-summon and then get the remaining three jewels depending on which ones you didn't get first.

They'll add an ability that causes your Carbuncle to grow into Proto Carbuncle for a short amount of time...

The obvious route: 3 gemstone primals (Ramuh, Levi, Shiva), hopefully triggered by something that allows you to choose which collection of gemstones will go first. The dev challenge would be how to make their rotation distinct enough from the first set of gemstones while maintaining the same timing.

Unlikely: A new Demi that is triggered after you use Baha and Phoenix once (aligining to the 2min bursts). Not that I think this is a bad idea, just because they really might save this for 8.0.

No.
They will add zero.

Hydaelyn and Zodiark will be summonable at level 100 :)

of the ff11 primes that were at outset we're missing: ramuh, shiva, and leviathan.

if it flipped to them with phoenix / bahamut cycle, they could retain the same controls.

macro'ing summoner in 11 was complex and necessary, but the class was more a buff giver than dps (e.g. garuda gave aoe party haste)... you had to cycle them constantly, and they drained mp to exist. in fact, HQ weapons would reduce the drain, so you ended up for quite a while benefiting by including weapon swaps with all the macros.

14 isnt like that, thankfully, and smn rotation is easy, flexible, and mobile.

i'd love some ramuh in particular.

I want the bossom lady as a summon myself.

You will get a 40 potency increase with the radiant ruby ruin/throbbing topaz ruin/exquisite emerald ruin upgrade trait and be happy about it. Not even bewheeled titan will be added.

I’d like to know if they already used up the summoner “vfx budget” with the ew version. From how it sounded in that live letter/interview before launch, it’s the reason monk and dragoon lost their aura effects.