Dissipation Rework

I know this ability has been talked about allot and suggested rework and though some sounds okay I think I got one for the pool. So how about this.

In its current form it’s on a 3 minute cooldown and basically all it does is give us 3 more aetherflow and 30 seconds of 20% healing magic potency. So basically adlo and succor only.

How about since the biggest complaint about this ability is we lose the fairy who is an intricate part of our kit. What if once we dissipate. Let’s say in a 20y radius everyone in range gets a passive embrace regen for 20 seconds. Not sure if I wanna keep the healing magic potency since we’d gain a passive regen instead. Then again it is a 3 minute cooldown so maybe the magic potency can still stay?

What do you guys think? Just throwing my idea in the pool of many dissipation reworks.

Goodnight,

I really don't like the idea of dissipation. I always saw summons as friends, i wish that i was able to buff the fairy or fusion with her to buff myself.

Personally, I'd happily throw away Dissipation in favour of bringing back the Quickened Aetherflow trait, it still gives back some Aetherflow that would've been lost from Dissipations removal (not fully, but close enough) and gives us another spare button. From there I'd rather distribute that lost healing power to Seraph, she feels underwhelming as the lvl 80 capstone. Having her version of Whispering Dawn and Fey Illumination be stronger would make a lot of sense, and boosting them by that lost 20+% would make them feel good to use instead of just having her be an AoE shield dispenser.

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Originally Posted by Szylver

I really don't like the idea of dissipation. I always saw summons as friends, i wish that i was able to buff the fairy or fusion with her to buff myself.

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This is me.

I don't like the idea of "eating" her, even if it's said in jest. Imagine forging a bond with someone, but kicking them to the curb whenever it's convenient. Something about that just sits wrong with me. Mechanics aside, the feel/aesthetic just FEELS wrong. Even if you think she's a mindless automaton (the lore suggests otherwise) that is just some of your aether you've temporarily split off and made into a slave such that you're just drawing it back into yourself, _I_ don't think that, and so it still feels wrong and like a <top10animebetrails> to hit the button.

I'd rather they just STOP removing Eos entirely. A 3 min CD that gives you 3 stacks of AF and increases healing magic potency by 10% (while leaving Eos on the field) would be entirely fine and not overpowered, so we should just do that.

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

Personally, I'd happily throw away Dissipation in favour of bringing back the Quickened Aetherflow trait, it still gives back some Aetherflow that would've been lost from Dissipations removal (not fully, but close enough) and gives us another spare button. From there I'd rather distribute that lost healing power to Seraph, she feels underwhelming as the lvl 80 capstone. Having her version of Whispering Dawn and Fey Illumination be stronger would make a lot of sense, and boosting them by that lost 20+% would make them feel good to use instead of just having her be an AoE shield dispenser.

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Also this, this would be cool.

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Hm...

OP, I don't want to shoot down your idea (too hard). I think having ideas and sharing them is good. So I don't mean this to cow you out of doing so. I DO think what you suggested is a nice idea. It addresses the mechanical deficiency of using Dissipation. So by all means, keep thinking of ideas, posting them, and engaging with conversations.

...but speaking for myself personally, I personally have less issue with Dissipation mechanically (though I DO have issues with it there) and more an issue with it thematically/ideologically, if that makes sense? So the fix, to me, needs to address that.

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

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I'm absolutely all in on a dissipation rework as it's a button that has even fewer redeeming qualities than Cleric stance did IMO (The payoff of using it for an opener was barely above crit variance territory if I'm remembering the numbers straight).

Personally, I don't think your update goes far enough, as you note, the current healing magic potency limitation just doesn't make sense either.

My lukewarm take:

Dissipation increases magic potency and spell speed by 10% for 20 seconds, for the duration of the effect the fairy bound to the caster and unable to act or move themselves. For every spell the caster uses, the fairy will cast an 50 potency heal with a 10yalm range.

Basically, you get an all in 1 healing+damage cd akin to WHM's PoM with the price being that the fairy is bound to your hip for the duration of the effect and can only throw out a baby whispering dawn style heal in sync with your own casts so the more you slam your GCD, the more value you get out of the fairy at this point.

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

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I use Dissipation a lot in Savage/Ultimate. Why would you want to remove Dissipation for a buffed Whispering Dawn? The value of healing you get from the Aetherflow alone is worth more than her Embraces, and the GCD healing boost is really nice for buffed Adlos or Succors if you should happen to need them. (And you can tell your cohealer to do all the work for 30s while you Broil and Energy Drain away, hehe!) Dissipation being at a 180s CD means its up for every other Deploy and Recitation, so you can use the two together for an even more powerful shield or opt to use Dissipation instead of Recitation so you can use the Recitation for something else.

I also don't think there was a single fight this tier where you shouldn't use Dissipation in your opener, and especially during SC1 in P12Sp1 it made the 2m burst + movement much comfier because Aetherflow's CD was delayed so I wasn't having to weave a ton of sh*t during it while trying to slidecast (though I also drift Dissipation and don't hit it on CD because dissipating during Para3 sucks and I would use Seraph there to cover when I'd be stuck off in Narnia to do mechanics). I feel like Dissipation is a really maligned ability - especially when people seem to think the healing magic potency is worthless. Should you be using as little GCDs as possible? Yes, but if you need to use GCDs, having the buff is way better than not having it (and more Aetherflow you're out of if you need it for 'emergencies'), and Dissipation is a very valuable button for mechanics where you are going to be using GCDs multiple times in a row, like Harrowing in P10S this tier.

If I could change anything about it at the moment, I would just make it give 2000 MP like Aetherflow does or MP regen during the duration like Lucid if Energy Drain is never getting MP back on it, so it contributes positively to SCH's MP economy and gives more function to the buffed GCD healing when you need it - being able to use Dissipation as an emergency button in ShB when you died and needed MP back was really nice in prog situations especially if you need to be raising people. Either that or make it sort of like Recitation where your Adlos/Succors don't have an MP cost during it, though IDK if SE would want SCH to be able to spam Succor for free for 30s lmao

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

Personally, I'd happily throw away Dissipation in favour of bringing back the Quickened Aetherflow trait, it still gives back some Aetherflow that would've been lost from Dissipations removal (not fully, but close enough) and gives us another spare button. From there I'd rather distribute that lost healing power to Seraph, she feels underwhelming as the lvl 80 capstone. Having her version of Whispering Dawn and Fey Illumination be stronger would make a lot of sense, and boosting them by that lost 20+% would make them feel good to use instead of just having her be an AoE shield dispenser.

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Ehhh, while I'm all for Quickened Aetherflow, idk about removing Dissipation only to put its effects into Seraph. One of SCH's biggest strengths is in its button count that lets you not have to waste other CDs when you only need one effect in general, making it much easier to get full value out of a CD imo. SGE has the opposite issue with things like Physis or Holos because certain effects are much more valuable and you're going to use it for that. Is Physis ever used for its 2nd effect? Or when do you ever get full value out of Holos now that they've shoved a bunch of effects on it?

Removing SCH's healing boost and putting it behind Seraph would make Illumination harder to get full value out of and you'd probably never end up using Seraph for a buffed Illumination anyway unless it just reset the CD, but you'd still primarily be using Seraph for Consolation and even resetting a CD would still push its next use 2 minutes out. It also just takes away the use case of needing Dissipation for shields as if I need that boost now, I would need to not only have Illum off CD but also need to Seraph and waste the CD for 2m when I'm probably going to be putting Consolation out on a mechanic I'm not going to be Spreadlo-ing, especially with how you can stretch Consolation's value for nearly a minute which often covers two separate mechanics.

Kind of unrelated too but a funny unoptimal thing you can do if you're in Seraph and need to dissipate is to hit Away on the pet hotbar, and use a GCD resummoning Eos and immediately dissipate her. There's probably very little situations where you'd actually use this but it's possible and works in a pinch if you're stuck in Summon Seraph and need Aetherflow/the healing buff

I disagree with the general sentiment in the thread, but don’t really have much to say.
I like dissipation in dungeons whenever I get a tank that knows where to go but doesn’t mitigate particularly well. Had a run the other day where getting the extra lustrates/excog really helped, and the buffed adlos were nice when needed. Kind of sad that it’s the best healing has felt since I was scholar tank, but I’ll take it.

Given the word dissipation they can’t really have it do anything other than get rid of the fairy for a bit. Then again they didn’t bother changing the summoner attacks that no longer make sense, so perhaps it would just be bringing it in line.

The removal of mp regen from energy drain unnecessarily harmed it as an ability, similar to how the shorter healer nuke cast time impacted ruin2’s niche.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

Given the word dissipation they can’t really have it do anything other than get rid of the fairy for a bit.

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They could just reuse the old icon and name of Fey Covenant and make it something like "Entering into a covenant with your faerie puts her to rest for 30s while empowering your healing and giving you a full stack of aetherflow" and then just make her remain on the field doing nothing for 30s instead of completely removing her as an entity. Changes nothing gameplay wise, fixes people complaining about having to manually re-place her and also lets you give Eos a nice naptime instead of a violent lunchtime :3

I liked the idea someone had of Augmentation Tactics, where the Fairy channels a tether to the SCH, empowering the SCH for the duration the tether is active at the cost of Fairy Gauge. Makes the gauge have more use, allows the skill to be used more often in the fight than 'once per 2-3 min', feeds the identity of 'the SCH and fairy work in synergy'

While I understand the sentiment of not liking losing your fairy (henceforth locking some part of your own kits), I personally liked the fact it's not anything simple as "lmao just hit this on cooldown"-button & comes with some form of downsides to consider. Now, I'm all for reworks with a caveat: if there's nuance to be removed, I'd expect the same amount or at least similar amount of nuance are kept or given back to other part of their kits. As of now, Dissipation makes think "(a)Diss or Seraph? (b)Can I afford to not have access of WD/FI/FB/FU for 30s? Can I move those 4 abilities outside Diss window comfily? (c)Can I just Diss for the 300p anyway?". So let's take a look at your proposal now:

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

How about since the biggest complaint about this ability is we lose the fairy who is an intricate part of our kit. What if once we dissipate. Let’s say in a 20y radius everyone in range gets a passive embrace regen for 20 seconds. Not sure if I wanna keep the healing magic potency since we’d gain a passive regen instead. Then again it is a 3 minute cooldown so maybe the magic potency can still stay?

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So basically Dissipating would've been a "Whispering Dawn + Free Aetherflows but almost twice as powerful & 3 minute cooldown"? That would've at least make me think less of (b) and (c) so I don't think I'd like it.

Personally I have written a revamp of my own in the past that looked something like the following:

Dissipation
Ability | 75 Faerie Gauge | 60s Cooldown
Recovers 1 charge of Lustrate, Indomitability, and Excogitation while replacing currently summoned fairy with one in reserve. Grants "Fey Covenant" to self.
Fey Covenant: Increases healing action potency by 25%.
Duration: 12s

Of course, this change comes together with the revamp of the other part of their kits (most notably bringing back Selene with revamped abilities, the aetherflow & faerie gauge system) but since this thread is only talking about Dissipation I'll leave it like this while contemplating what to polish lol.

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

What do you guys think? Just throwing my idea in the pool of many dissipation reworks.

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I can see the reasoning why people want Dissipation reworked, but I personally disagree.

Dissipation is a risk/reward ability, you accept the risk on your own terms if you want the reward, I personally enjoy this interaction and found many uses for it. I know all the other healers had their risks removed, but I appreciate that I still have to think and plan on SCH in certain cases.

I'm probably just jaded at this point, but the risk part of risk/reward kinda went away since we cannot control her like we used to.
I personally didn't mind it too much since HW, because the bonuses are pretty good. But if you remove the 3 aetherflow stacks, the kit is going to be way worse than it currently is fun to play with.
If the player agency was there, I would've cared about it.

I use Dissipation for healing and I like the way it functions. I've used it for so long I already rotate my cool downs so they don't step on each other. It's one of the few abilities that feels good to use because it really feels like a tactical victory to pul it off when you need it without screwing over your party.

I'll admit it's an ability that requires a lot of planning to use with its tradeoffs, but with the addition of Sage to the game I would prefer if Scholar moved away from Aetherflow into a kit based more on the fairy itself and the fairy gauge. I feel like this is a good way to differentiate the two otherwise similar jobs. However, adding more fairy abilities will create a pain point with dissipation that will probably cause more frustrations than enjoyment.

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Originally Posted by Miki_L

I'll admit it's an ability that requires a lot of planning to use with its tradeoffs, but with the addition of Sage to the game I would prefer if Scholar moved away from Aetherflow into a kit based more on the fairy itself and the fairy gauge. I feel like this is a good way to differentiate the two otherwise similar jobs. However, adding more fairy abilities will create a pain point with dissipation that will probably cause more frustrations than enjoyment.

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Don't take away from what SCH has and give it to SGE. Aetherflow is SCH's first.

It should be SGE gets addersgall & addersting turn into something unique instead.

I use Dissipation with extreme caution. If I know I can live without the fairy for the next 30 seconds, why the hell not.. That's more Energy Drains for me. :D

Scholar is the only healer that has a modicum of consequential strategy required in how you prioritize your heals instead of just pressing whatever interchangeable button is lit up at a moment. So of course most FF14 healers hate it.

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

Personally, I'd happily throw away Dissipation in favour of bringing back the Quickened Aetherflow trait, it still gives back some Aetherflow that would've been lost from Dissipations removal (not fully, but close enough) and gives us another spare button. From there I'd rather distribute that lost healing power to Seraph, she feels underwhelming as the lvl 80 capstone. Having her version of Whispering Dawn and Fey Illumination be stronger would make a lot of sense, and boosting them by that lost 20+% would make them feel good to use instead of just having her be an AoE shield dispenser.

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Yep.

Just put a flat 20% healing to all spells / actions on dissipate (no fairy removal) and bring back quickened aetherflow.

Hell Sage has that already in Krasis.

*Increases HP recovery via healing actions for a party member or self by 20%.
* Duration: 10s

Yet another thing Sage stole from SCH but was made better / less clunky.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

Scholar is the only healer that has a modicum of consequential strategy required in how you prioritize your heals instead of just pressing whatever interchangeable button is lit up at a moment. So of course most FF14 healers hate it.

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Dissipation is one of the only (if not **the** only) skills in the game that directly conflicts with other capstone skills. It's not fun to use in the slightest. And if it's not fun, what's the point?

Also, the bonus healing only affects 3 spells, 2 of them we really shouldn't be using at all (physic / succor)

What’s the problem with conflict of capstone skills, it forces you to consider what skills you have available at what time and when you shouldn’t be using a particular skill over one that doesn’t have any restrictions on its use

Healing should be about making choices with your heals, not brute forcing the problem with an overwhelming amount of oGCD’s like SGE has, do people really find it fun to just vomit out 3000 potency of free healing every minute with literally zero decision making on SGE

The only problem with the current SCH conflict is seraph is a demi and Demi’s are garbage in this game because of coding, delete seraph and bake consolation into eos but otherwise the skill conflict should remain, because it makes SCH a healer that has to choose

Is there "an appeal to jealousy" logical fallacy with a fancy Latin name? Just because you don't need braincells to play any of the other healers' kits doesn't make the requirement of a single braincell a worse gameplay design choice. "But it's unfair" seems like a pretty odd complaint when Scholar doesn't actually perform any worse for it. If you don't just randomly press buttons when healing.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

[...]Dissipation is one of the only (if not **the** only) skills in the game that directly conflicts with other capstone skills. It's not fun to use in the slightest. And if it's not fun, what's the point?

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It's the opposite for me: I feel rewarded knowing that I could work around that limitation & maintain my gameplay properly. Remove that, you've essentially annulled a part of my progression in this job without returning me the same nuance elsewhere and I will resent that.

While I do think Dissipation is such an outdated button in a time where we're so bloated with oGCD healing, I still don't agree around eliminating that drawback just because 'it's the only skill that conflicts with other capstone skills'. People can play SGE if they dislike how Dissipation is ruining their fun for whatever reason.

I understand that many people view SGE as the perfected SCH with none of the "conflicts" or the "clunk", I respect their opinion on that.

Now, what I want from those people is for them to respect that I want to play SCH and not play SGE, so kindly stop asking SE to turn SCH into SGE. Thanks.

I think people are still angry that besides mobility SCH still beats SGE in every single category that has any meaning, SCH still does the most damage of the healers, still has the strongest shields and the most utility, it’s still the strongest healer despite SGE apparently being the “perfected SCH”

I think people just want their cake and to eat it to with SGE, they want the easiest healer to also be the best healer

We've been waiting for Dissipation changes since 2.0 or 3.0?
Honestly I don't even play SCH anymore, SGE does the same without the clunky fairy.

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

We've been waiting for Dissipation changes since 2.0 or 3.0?
Honestly I don't even play SCH anymore, SGE does the same without the clunky fairy.

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“People who don’t play SCH have been waiting for dissipation changes since 3.0, dissipation wasn’t in 2.0, it’s the HW capstone skill

Of the times I have used Dissipation, either by accident or not, it's unfortunate to lose the passive benefits but it's not something that completely breaks the flow of the job. If you manage your fairy cooldowns properly that most of them are on cooldown and your Aetherflow healing is available except that you do not have the necessary amount of stacks, then Dissipation is worth it. Even if it were done on accident, it makes your GCD heals do 20% more healing. Emergency Tactics, coming into mind, will be even more bursty. If used with (Fey Illumination prior to using Dissipation) Protraction, Recitation, and Deployment Tactics, you'll have THICKER shields. And like what I have mentioned previously, if there are no need of fairy healing for the next 30 seconds, might as well use those stacks to push DPS via Energy Drain. See all the preparations we need to do.. and then a SGE overwrites it... yeah. still very salty until now.

I don't get why people want Dissipation reworked when Summon Seraph is much more problematic than it.

It is unnecessary complexity when something simpler like Rouse, could do the trick and without suffering the animation delay. Funny they removed it and replaced it with an ability that takes forever to cast because SMN can call Bahamut and some SCH got jealous?

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Originally Posted by rawker

Of the times I have used Dissipation, either by accident or not, it's unfortunate to lose the passive benefits but it's not something that completely breaks the flow of the job. If you manage your fairy cooldowns properly that most of them are on cooldown and your Aetherflow healing is available except that you do not have the necessary amount of stacks, then Dissipation is worth it. Even if it were done on accident, it makes your GCD heals do 20% more healing. Emergency Tactics, coming into mind, will be even more bursty. If used with (Fey Illumination prior to using Dissipation) Protraction, Recitation, and Deployment Tactics, you'll have THICKER shields. And like what I have mentioned previously, if there are no need of fairy healing for the next 30 seconds, might as well use those stacks to push DPS via Energy Drain. See all the preparations we need to do.. and then a SGE overwrites it... yeah. still very salty until now.

I don't get why people want Dissipation reworked when Summon Seraph is much more problematic than it.

It is unnecessary complexity when something simpler like Rouse, could do the trick and without suffering the animation delay. Funny they removed it and replaced it with an ability that takes forever to cast because SMN can call Bahamut and some SCH got jealous?

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Thank god someone who finally agrees with me that seraph is SCH’s actual problem, not dissipation

I remember getting locked out of my healing on SCH when I was learning Harrowing Hell in Savage, and being like 'ffs this skill is so annoying I hate it'

Oh wait, it was because I tried using Summon Seraph for the 2 Consolations, and Dissipation was actually a much better choice there to boost my Succor potencies

In the situations where you're using Dissipation for it's intended purpose, it's very strong. The issue with the skill is that people think it's intended purpose is the 3 AF stacks, not the 20% healing increase. Could it boost OGCD potency too? Sure, I wouldn't be against that, but complaining about the 30s of lost Embrace casts seems silly, especially when tanks are so self-sustainy now

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Originally Posted by rawker

And like what I have mentioned previously, if there are no need of fairy healing for the next 30 seconds, might as well use those stacks to push DPS via Energy Drain. See all the preparations we need to do.. and then a SGE overwrites it... yeah. still very salty until now.

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The problem with that is after the ED nerfs, 3 of them amounts to a whopping single extra broil for losing all of the passive healing for 30 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

The problem with that is after the ED nerfs, 3 of them amounts to a whopping single extra broil for losing all of the passive healing for 30 seconds.

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To be fair, the intention was that ED was to use up any unused stacks whenever Aetherflow is off cooldown. We'll just have to wait and see what they will do in Dawntrail if they'll buff ED's potency to be neutral with (probably) Broil V, in terms of potency. Using all stacks of Aetherflow when no apparent healing is a trade. More so, if we factor in Dissipation. In fact, one can argue that instead of normal Aetherflow stacks that Dissipation gives, it will be Empowered Aetherflow Stacks where all actions done using those will either have extra effects or a flat out better potencies.

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Originally Posted by rawker

To be fair, the intention was that ED was to use up any unused stacks whenever Aetherflow is off cooldown. We'll just have to wait and see what they will do in Dawntrail if they'll buff ED's potency to be neutral with (probably) Broil V, in terms of potency. Using all stacks of Aetherflow when no apparent healing is a trade. More so, if we factor in Dissipation. In fact, one can argue that instead of normal Aetherflow stacks that Dissipation gives, it will be Empowered Aetherflow Stacks where all actions done using those will either have extra effects or a flat out better potencies.

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I agree they should probably buff ED, people were willing to “chad” their co healer for ED in ShB when it was a measly 10 potency gain over just spamming broil, it’s obvious that as long as ED is a gain (which it should be because of how AF works) people will use it, so they may as well make it a satisfying button to actually press given it’s tradeoffs

I’ve noticed that the recent EX have the some of the larger damage is spaced out 3-4 min so that Dissipation can be used in conjunction with the other big buffs for the fat shield.

The damage profile after that is low that ogcds can handle it.

If anything, they should just change how long Eos is gone from 30 sec down to 15 sec while still keeping the 30 sec healing potency boost.

I think Dissipation is a great skill and works in the design direction of the “Big Shield Tactical Deploy”, the dungeon extra Lustrated, and the ShB extra dps.

It’s an amazing versatile skill.

(Also let us gain fairy gauge while Eos is dissipated.)