Dancer 7.0 Wishlist

Does anyone have anything they wanna see for Dancer in Dawntrail? Either new skills or tuning of the current kits?

For my list of major wants:
-Have both Fountain and Bladeshower combo off of either Cascade or Windmill. They changed the procs for EW to let the single target and aoe flow better. This is the logical next step.
-Make Standard Step's cooldown affected by skill speed like Gunbreaker's Sonic Break. This would help combat a bit of drifting and let you fix minor timing and ping nonsense.
-More utility buttons. The rotation of Dancer is mostly fine and cool utility is what I'd want over too many finishers.

For minor wants:
-Increase the size of Curing Waltz by 1 or 2 yalms. Not much, but it would make using it with squirrely melees less finicky and give more room for error.
-Keep Improvisation as is. Maybe tweek the numbers if that. I know it's clunky, and this is probably more of a selfish request. But, the jank of double weaving Improvisation to fit it between a single weave window is kinda fun. Most skills have been heavily ironed out to be kinda samey nowadays, I just want one silly janky skill to use.

Not a dancer main, but it would either be the most fun or the worst thing ever if there was an attack that procced off En Avant.

I'm not sure I'd like something in the rotation of Dancer tied to En Avant. It's already a part of PvP and I'm not a fan of it there. It really chews through all your mobility.

I've gotten way more into DNC lately, but I don't think I'm qualified to give much more than just some QoL improvements. The only outright ability change I want is with Improvisation. I'd like it to be an instant, one-and-done press that gives the entire shield upon use, instead of being a stacking channel. Keep the regen, as well, of course. Maybe it makes more sense as it is for some people, but I never really get opportunities to channel up to maximum stacks.

Other than that, maybe condense some buttons. Having Flourish change into Fan Dance IV upon use, and Devilment into Starfall Dance upon use.

Having the size of Curing Waltz slightly increased would be nice.

I'm pretty curious to what they have in store for Dancers. It is one of the DPS jobs that are at capacity during the 2min burst windows. What they can even fit? An upgraded Standard Step would be questionable since sometimes it won't even fit with the Saberdances. Another oGCD can be a problem if sometimes there's too many feathers to use. The only way I see is actually improving things you do outside of the TS windows.

As of a change I'd really like to see would be Closed Position having its recast time removed, basically being applied more freely, like its PVP iteration. This 'free' partner swap could lead to some interesting optimizations with jobs that have strong actions in the odd minute windows. Also minor, but a variation of CP to be usable on the dancer themselves to not be as shafted on solo scenarios.

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Originally Posted by Mayhemmer

I've gotten way more into DNC lately, but I don't think I'm qualified to give much more than just some QoL improvements. The only outright ability change I want is with Improvisation. I'd like it to be an instant, one-and-done press that gives the entire shield upon use, instead of being a stacking channel. Keep the regen, as well, of course. Maybe it makes more sense as it is for some people, but I never really get opportunities to channel up to maximum stacks.

Other than that, maybe condense some buttons. Having Flourish change into Fan Dance IV upon use, and Devilment into Starfall Dance upon use.

Having the size of Curing Waltz slightly increased would be nice.

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Agreed with this, I think I'd just like to see Dancers Improv be more consistently useful like bards/mchs "unique" raid wide utility. Extra Range on curing waltz? I'm fine with that i think the range can be more annoying in uncoordinated duties.

make the procs WS have a chance to proc an upgraded Cascade/Windmill that can proc feathers too ?
charges on waltz ?

I mained DNC during abyssos for context. Make something proc starfall dance and fan dance 4 other than flourish and devilment. Having two buttons that you press only one time every minute or two minutes is stupid, especially on a proc based job. For that matter, add another GCD that consumes esprit. I’m not a fan (ha) of resources that are consumed exclusively by one ability. And no, I do not mean “add single target saber dance”. That is literally the last thing I want. Perhaps this esprit spender could consume 25 esprit, be on a ~30 second cooldown and consume any existing flourish procs and its potency and/or cooldown could increase based on if it consumed one or both.

Sorry for the double post, I’m on mobile and can’t edit. If they want to go crazy they could rework tech step from just a 2 minute buff to a persistent buff that you need to maintain as much as possible. Example, you dance to start it as you do now. Once it’s active, it increases everyone’s damage/healing by a tiny bit and it now drains a gauge that you can replenish by consuming feathers and flourishes. If the gauge depletes then tech step is off until it comes back off cooldown. People complain about the two minute meta, and frankly if the devs want to tackle the poster child for that, imo, it would be dancer’s tech step.

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Originally Posted by SargeTheSeagull

I mained DNC during abyssos for context. Make something proc starfall dance and fan dance 4 other than flourish and devilment. Having two buttons that you press only one time every minute or two minutes is stupid, especially on a proc based job. For that matter, add another GCD that consumes esprit. I’m not a fan (ha) of resources that are consumed exclusively by one ability. And no, I do not mean “add single target saber dance”. That is literally the last thing I want. Perhaps this esprit spender could consume 25 esprit, be on a ~30 second cooldown and consume any existing flourish procs and its potency and/or cooldown could increase based on if it consumed one or both.

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I hadn't considered anything deeper as this is just a wishlist thread, but I can get behind these ideas. I'd like fewer "press this every 1-2 minutes for a direct effect" buttons, and more tools and abilities that effect each other in varying ways, across the board for many jobs in general.

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Originally Posted by LynxDubh

Does anyone have anything they wanna see for Dancer in Dawntrail? Either new skills or tuning of the current kits?

For my list of major wants:
-Have both Fountain and Bladeshower combo off of either Cascade or Windmill. They changed the procs for EW to let the single target and aoe flow better. This is the logical next step.
-Make Standard Step's cooldown affected by skill speed like Gunbreaker's Sonic Break. This would help combat a bit of drifting and let you fix minor timing and ping nonsense.
-More utility buttons. The rotation of Dancer is mostly fine and cool utility is what I'd want over too many finishers.

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Some actually good major wants, though I'm still not a fan of how they handled the RNG as it gives off 3.x Machinist vibes with the changes to procs in Endwalker

These are my major wants for Dancer; Personally, just make the RNG less punishing and more forgiving, such as a 50% chance for Cascade to give either Reverse Cascade by itself or both Reverse Cascade Rising Windmill and Fountain gives a 50% chance for either Fountainfall by itself or both Fountainfall and Bloodshower, 25% chance to get up to 4 fourfold feathers, and using Fan Dance 1/2 gives you better chances to get Fan Dance 3 based on the number of fourfold feathers you have, capping at 100%, maybe even allow Sabre Dance to proc Starfall Dance and Fan Dance 4 outside of the buffs that proc them. Dancer is still a DPS at the end of day.

For me, I would like:
•Closed Position to be just a one button press vs having to turn it off then back on.
•Either give us a way to proc Starfall Dance and Fan Dance IV outside of Devilment and Flourish or just have Devilment and Flourish turn into them.
•I think Improvisation's effects should be switched: we should give a damage reduction buff while we dance and Finish should give a regen heal when we end it (either damage reduction or regen can be buffed over time). I think this will make Improv slightly better to use outside of when bosses jump off screen and charge their big attack (kind of like AST's Collective Unconscious).
•I think we need something that shares Standard Step's cooldown for when we aren't dealing with an AoE situation and we don't need to refresh our buff. What about something that does less damage but grants a feather as an example?

For me: I want Starfall Dance and Devilment combined into one button. It doesn't need too be 2. Press devilment, have it change to Starfall Dance.
Id want the same for Fan Dance IV and Flourish.
Id Love the RNG to be less punishing.
Id Love a little more room for error. One mistake should not be enough to make a raid leader angry you 'are not pulling your weight' due to the notable DPS loss for less than perfect performance and RNG.
Id REALLY love if Dancers were given a performance mode like Bards get, but we string dance moves together. In performance mode you can string together the moves from your attacks without needing a target and without doing damage. Just time your moves so animations dont overlap. With the number of clubs out there now and dance partys, it would be a godsend for many RPers or just club goers in general.
Id settle for SE to put a little effort into dancer for once instead of looking at us, giving 20% effort and saying "Good enough" then ignoring us for the rest of the expansion. In Shadowbringers, our release expansion, we essentially got 2 seconds in the trailer and the focus was on it being a Viera while Gunbreaker got all the attention lol.
We didnt even get any notable attention in Radz during Endwalker, its the home of the entire Dancer order! You would think they would have Dancers out in force preforming to lift peoples spirits and combat people falling into despair.
We dont even get glams outside of our job gear and when we do, they are recolors of the ShB job gear. How many versions of it do we have now? 3?4? Why cant we get a Neo-Ishgardian style outfit that is for Dancers instead of Mechs? It would be low effort and fit well.A set of Late Allagan gear thats not the tank glam minus the skirt.
Just give us a little attention and time in the light. Were Dancers, we like attention but right now we are being treated like the unwanted middle child of the ShB family lol. "Dancers are fine, this is good enough. They dont need the same attention as Mechs and Bards." (And thats saying something since Bards are fairly ignored in favor of Mechs too lol).
Did you know Lyna is a Dancer? Every single person i mentioned that fact too certainly didnt know. Thats how little impact SE gave the job.
We want attention from SE and some actual time on stage damnit! XD

I like Improvisation, but it's a little sad for a former capstone skill to barely have any use outside of 8 man content.

Maybe they could do something like Honing Dance with it, where it actually does some damage and/or you can move during it so it's a bit more useful in content like dungeons and solo play as well?

I know what Dancer needs: a 4th En Avant

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Originally Posted by Sililos

For me: I want Starfall Dance and Devilment combined into one button. It doesn't need too be 2. Press devilment, have it change to Starfall Dance.
Id want the same for Fan Dance IV and Flourish.
Id Love the RNG to be less punishing.
Id Love a little more room for error. One mistake should not be enough to make a raid leader angry you 'are not pulling your weight' due to the notable DPS loss for less than perfect performance and RNG.
Id REALLY love if Dancers were given a performance mode like Bards get, but we string dance moves together. In performance mode you can string together the moves from your attacks without needing a target and without doing damage. Just time your moves so animations dont overlap. With the number of clubs out there now and dance partys, it would be a godsend for many RPers or just club goers in general.
Id settle for SE to put a little effort into dancer for once instead of looking at us, giving 20% effort and saying "Good enough" then ignoring us for the rest of the expansion. In Shadowbringers, our release expansion, we essentially got 2 seconds in the trailer and the focus was on it being a Viera while Gunbreaker got all the attention lol.
We didnt even get any notable attention in Radz during Endwalker, its the home of the entire Dancer order! You would think they would have Dancers out in force preforming to lift peoples spirits and combat people falling into despair.
We dont even get glams outside of our job gear and when we do, they are recolors of the ShB job gear. How many versions of it do we have now? 3?4? Why cant we get a Neo-Ishgardian style outfit that is for Dancers instead of Mechs? It would be low effort and fit well.A set of Late Allagan gear thats not the tank glam minus the skirt.
Just give us a little attention and time in the light. Were Dancers, we like attention but right now we are being treated like the unwanted middle child of the ShB family lol. "Dancers are fine, this is good enough. They dont need the same attention as Mechs and Bards." (And thats saying something since Bards are fairly ignored in favor of Mechs too lol).
Did you know Lyna is a Dancer? Every single person i mentioned that fact too certainly didnt know. Thats how little impact SE gave the job.
We want attention from SE and some actual time on stage damnit! XD

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Funny that thing about gear... Same curse of RPR and GNB with their armor type items 90% of the time not matching their aesthetics.

RDM rarely feels contemplated by what casters get. I fell in love with Pictomancer, but already dread the lack of proper items for the job's aesthetics, looking in what we have.

This is yet another reason to unrestrict the glamour limitations for armor sets. The armor type that has what a Dancer normally would wear is actually Scouting.

A thing I wouldn't want for DNC would be casts -- even the PVP-style casts. As someone who really hopes BRD, and MCH get some PVP-style casts in DT, I don't think it would feel good or be thematically appropriate for DNC.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

As of a change I'd really like to see would be Closed Position having its recast time removed, basically being applied more freely, like its PVP iteration. This 'free' partner swap could lead to some interesting optimizations with jobs that have strong actions in the odd minute windows.

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Closed Position should have a 5s cooldown and function like Kardia, where you can instantly apply it to anyone as an oGCD without having to deactivate and reactivate it. It's not like this would be a super OP thing at all; the benefits of Closed Position don't come from Closed Position but from Devilment and Standard Step, and it's easy enough to remove Standard Step from the old target if you change partners.

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Also minor, but a variation of CP to be usable on the dancer themselves to not be as shafted on solo scenarios.

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"Variation", maybe, after the term for a solo dance in ballet

I could really go for a level 100 ability that increases ALL proc chances to 100% for 15 seconds with a 2 minute cooldown.

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Originally Posted by SargeTheSeagull

Sorry for the double post, I’m on mobile and can’t edit. If they want to go crazy they could rework tech step from just a 2 minute buff to a persistent buff that you need to maintain as much as possible. Example, you dance to start it as you do now. Once it’s active, it increases everyone’s damage/healing by a tiny bit and it now drains a gauge that you can replenish by consuming feathers and flourishes. If the gauge depletes then tech step is off until it comes back off cooldown. People complain about the two minute meta, and frankly if the devs want to tackle the poster child for that, imo, it would be dancer’s tech step.

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Like MP in the way Foe Requiem used to work?

A man of culture I see

Maybe bringing back TP but less harmful and have DNC the ability to rejuvenate it. Maybe something like Energy Waltz...to start to have classes be unique again. Also allows a Ranged dps a reason to be... to allow melee maximum uptime rather than them just always having it regardless.

I'd enjoy them adding some of those abilities we saw Ranaa Mhigo use in the Dancer job quests that we don't have access to - the elemental attacks such as Hannish Fire, Hannish Water, and Hannish Winds as well as War Dance and Foxshot.

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Originally Posted by Neapolitans

I could really go for a level 100 ability that increases ALL proc chances to 100% for 15 seconds with a 2 minute cooldown.

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This or your proc chance increases when circumstances are met. Is standard step up? OK! Proc goes from 50% to 75%. Is Standard and Tech step up? OK! Proc goes from 50% to 100%. Or give DNC a "Rhythm Gauge" that charges the longer you keep Standard step up and the more it fills, the higher the proc chance gets. It lets the RNG sorta stick around for those who love it for some reason...but also offers ways to lessen the RNG for those who hate it existing. Though I ultimately would prefer if they just got rid of the RNG all together.

I'm sick of this hate for rng. RNG is what makes player agency and choice shine, and rotations actually not a snoozefest. The beauty of DNC and BRD's burst is that you play piano differently each time depending on the procs you get and you have to adjust on the fly. What's the point of a rotation if it's just rehearsal? Where is the RPG in that?

Stop trying to turn everything into a tedious deterministic rotation that can be played with a stupid macro, you already have enough jobs that fit the bill that I don't play because of it. Leave us alone already, as if taking MCH from us wasn't enough... I swear.

I feel like Closed Position is... kinda boring, to be quite honest.

I think that if the idea is that this is someone you're choosing as a dance partner, it doesn't do a whole lot in terms of expressing that idea. Yes, functionally it's all there. Share X, Y, and Z skill benefit with the dance partner... but like... that's it. That said, I don't really know how to approach any potential, flavorful changes to it. How exactly do you convey the idea that a dancer is dancing with a reaper? lol

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Originally Posted by Valence

I'm sick of this hate for rng. RNG is what makes player agency and choice shine, and rotations actually not a snoozefest. The beauty of DNC and BRD's burst is that you play piano differently each time depending on the procs you get and you have to adjust on the fly. What's the point of a rotation if it's just rehearsal? Where is the RPG in that?

Stop trying to turn everything into a tedious deterministic rotation that can be played with a stupid macro, you already have enough jobs that fit the bill that I don't play because of it. Leave us alone already, as if taking MCH from us wasn't enough... I swear.

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I live for those rare perfect 2-minute bursts where every single one of my fan dances procs fan dance III. It feels great, but if I were guaranteed that perfect burst every time, it wouldn't feel nearly as good. I'd like to keep at least one job I enjoy playing going into Dawntrail, so yes, please leave the RNG as it is.

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Originally Posted by Hazama999

I feel like Closed Position is... kinda boring, to be quite honest.

I think that if the idea is that this is someone you're choosing as a dance partner, it doesn't do a whole lot in terms of expressing that idea. Yes, functionally it's all there. Share X, Y, and Z skill benefit with the dance partner... but like... that's it. That said, I don't really know how to approach any potential, flavorful changes to it. How exactly do you convey the idea that a dancer is dancing with a reaper? lol

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I too think that CP could be much more... And I feel this is a hot take because everywhere I mentioned, it was met with negativity, but personally I'd love if CP worked exactly like the pvp version, which would mean removing the recast time and create a reason to swap dance partners by either changing how TS works or adding a new dance to be alternating with that. Probably would need to change the buff to linger for a little while as you canged DP.

I feel the beauty of pvp dancer is that you must keep actual awareness on what your team is doing to decide the best partner for the moment. Of course pvp logic can't be applied fully to pve, but I feel the premise can be applied to some extent.

Maybe a little too daring, but imagine having multiple dances that do different things, like increasing recast speed, another decreasing recast in favor of a big damage multiplier (like old SB monk riddle of fire), changing the rythm and pace of not only your rotation as you go through dances, but also the partner's.

And then you get all the loopium heavy classes cry tears of blood I guess. But I had fun just imagining it.

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Originally Posted by Valence

Maybe a little too daring, but imagine having multiple dances that do different things, like increasing recast speed, another decreasing recast in favor of a big damage multiplier (like old SB monk riddle of fire), changing the rythm and pace of not only your rotation as you go through dances, but also the partner's.

And then you get all the loopium heavy classes cry tears of blood I guess. But I had fun just imagining it.

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I would enjoy it, but with no indication that AST is ever getting more diverse buffs, the hope for that is thin.

For me it's a general thought that XIV's 'support' is really barebones when almost everything comes down to a flat dmg%.

AF gear that doesn't make you look like a prostitute

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Originally Posted by Yuella

AF gear that doesn't make you look like a prostitute

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What even is the point of dancer then?

Add a tempo wheel with sweet spots for different skills to deal amplified effects. Perhaps even make it so that continuous flow with the tempo gauge slightly boosts proc rates.

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Originally Posted by eldritchAvatar

Add a tempo wheel with sweet spots for different skills to deal amplified effects. Perhaps even make it so that continuous flow with the tempo gauge slightly boosts proc rates.

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May the server ticks be ever in your favor. ಥ◡ಥ

CLOSED POSITION. I want to use it at lvl 15, when group content begins. Why is it lvl 60? If I am a support-oriented job, why can't I support at low lvls in a game where roulettes constantly throw me into low lvl content??

AND why does it have a 30 second cooldown? Today the other Dancer and I cast Closed Position on the same person at the exact same time and some people got angry. I said I will fix it when the cd is over. We were already in combat so I wasted my 1st buff. And this happens ALL. THE. TIME! It should have a 5 sec cooldown or lower so we can fix this mistake faster. It makes no sense for this skill to have a 30 sec cd. This has been annoying me for years. :|

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Originally Posted by Yuella

AF gear that doesn't make you look like a prostitute

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But that is, what dancer outfits are (at last in fantasy).
Allways wearing arabic/india skimpy clothes, where you see a lot of the body in combination of gold accessoires. Or, even wearing less.

Dancer are there to give the audience joy. And that outfits works perfect for that.
And, isnt only the artifact outfit from shb that kind of outfit? EW is allready very covered. And the normal stones and dungeon outfits are more sets for archer and gunner. Mean, mostly covered bodys.

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Originally Posted by Erinellza

CLOSED POSITION. I want to use it at lvl 15, when group content begins. Why is it lvl 60? If I am a support-oriented job, why can't I support at low lvls in a game where roulettes constantly throw me into low lvl content??

AND why does it have a 30 second cooldown? Today the other Dancer and I cast Closed Position on the same person at the exact same time and some people got angry. I said I will fix it when the cd is over. We were already in combat so I wasted my 1st buff. And this happens ALL. THE. TIME! It should have a 5 sec cooldown or lower so we can fix this mistake faster. It makes no sense for this skill to have a 30 sec cd. This has been annoying me for years. :|

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Closed Position not having a cooldown would also open up for more interesting optimization based on other job knowledge. Perhaps switching partners for the odd minute bursts could be an interesting gain. Probably not something most people do (just like most prefer to stick with regular BLM play), but something to look forward in mastering the job.

I am mostly happy with DNC rotations as is. But I would like some of the procs to get a higher chance. Getting unlucky with procs makes DNC frustrating when nothing else is up for while. And I don't understand DNC balance at all. Because of the group buffs it's personal dps is lower, but rdps is also lowest of all dps classes. So what exactly does DNC gain from having group buffs? They only seem to exist to make DNC weaker for any content where it can't optimally use group buffs (PUG, <8 person group, solo stuff).

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Originally Posted by aiqa

I am mostly happy with DNC rotations as is. But I would like some of the procs to get a higher chance. Getting unlucky with procs makes DNC frustrating when nothing else is up for while. And I don't understand DNC balance at all. Because of the group buffs it's personal dps is lower, but rdps is also lowest of all dps classes. So what exactly does DNC gain from having group buffs? They only seem to exist to make DNC weaker for any content where it can't optimally use group buffs (PUG, <8 person group, solo stuff).

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At the same time, it feels weird getting 'too lucky' in the burst windows because you may even leave with a Fan Dance or Saber Dance that didn't fit.

In fact, again I think about the question: What they can even get in Dawntrail with the burst slots already overwhelmed? It's safe to assume that every job is due to get at least one "new toy", and as it is it only leaves space for some niche super good utility like happened with SCH and expedient.

Maybe something like a 3rd combo piece that is the finisher for both the single and aoe combos? Maybe it could proc fan dance 4 or something? It would be something to spice up the filler and not bleed into the loaded burst.

Make it so that Shield Samba's visual effect appears every time you use it, cause half the time it doesn't.