P12S and PF

This isn't exactly a vent post, but my thoughts on running prog on PF on P12S have kind of shifted my mentality from a PF warrior into actually looking for a static. If things are going to keep being designed in a way that aggresively needs to be body checked this way I need some consistency before going insane.

Now I'm not a super skilled raider, I've only cleared maybe 4 tiers in the whole game, but I didn't remember Eden Titan or Shiva to be this unsalvagable. I didn't even have an issue with P8S, but in P12S I can get gated behind Caloric 1/Pangenesis, that I kind of forget how Classical 2 // Caloric 2 feel like, and start messing up those, so I decided to buckle up and ask for buddies for help, and although we didn't get it, being in Classical 2 / Caloric 2 made me feel like if I did this for another day with that group, I would get the clear.

Do you savage raiders find P12S easy? I feel like it's an okay fight when doing it with a group, but the worst nightmare in PF.

I gave up on 12 even with a group, and I was at Caloric. I felt like I wasnt having fun after body check number 200 wipe

The weapon isnt gonna be bis for ult, and relic is gonna be better soon, the chestpiece is from 11 and the mount I can unsync next year

So I decided it wasn't worth it to continue feeling miserable and stopped raiding entirely

Body checks this time really drained the fun out of the fight WAAAAY faster than with P8 for example (with snakes being the exception, that was rough in PF)

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Originally Posted by Raraka

So I decided it wasn't worth it to continue feeling miserable and stopped raiding entirely

Body checks this time really drained the fun out of the fight WAAAAY faster than with P8 for example (with snakes being the exception, that was rough in PF)

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That's how I feel. Miserable, either by my own mistakes, or the fact that if you play perfectly someone else can screw up. It's probably the worst I've ever felt while raiding.

I think phase 2 is easy but insanely punishing. It's the amount of checks that make it rough.

Caloric 1 and 2 explode in your face if someone messes up as much as getting turned by a gcd.
Classical 1 and 2 wipe if only a single shape goes through (technically one person can sacrifice themselves by eating two shapes at once)
Pangenesis is a wipe if someone goes to an incorrect tower.

And that's almost every mechanic already.
Additionally caloric 1 gets a lot easier if you are on comms and have someone call the last spots. You simply have the time to wait for that.

Having a static with consistent players is an absolute godsend in this regard.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

(technically one person can sacrifice themselves by eating two shapes at once.

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How?

And yes I agree, when I was in a full group the body checks were mitigated by comms. Someone saying, hey go south if you messed up in Classical 2, or if someone messes up consistently they will say "Hey you're this tower, so go east" and so on. Like I don't know if I've developed a kind of block but I just cannot seem to get the clear in PF.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

How?

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One time my tether buddy was standing towards the wrong shape so I adjusted slightly towards their intended shape and I guess I found the magic pixel where both shapes latched on to me. My static was highly confused why we didnt wipe on the spot there. I died for my sins though.

Combo of the state of PF AND the attitude of some of my static [which forced us into pf in the first place] made it absolutely miserable this time around. I had a panic attack and was just...weeping involuntarily from all the stress. Not like physically boo-hooing and pushing the crying out, my eyes were just streaming I couldn't stop it. Turned up to our next scheduled raid day already resolved to quit. Got the clear suffocating in the worst atmosphere I've ever been in, but we were finally free! The weapon dropped for my partner [Sch] and I won the coffer and it felt so good being able to just quit on the spot. The break in tension when we made eye contact seeing we were not only free but had scooped all the loot too was a good end to a horrible tier. We'll go back later with static members that didn't leave/weren't a bag of dicks to get the mount or any extra loot but it won't be for a very very long time. It's been the worst raid experience ever -by a huge margin-and we played [badly! unsuccessfully! miserably!] through Gordias back in the day.

Ever since i'm in a static i'm a much happier person :p
Everytime I pug for some alt loot and get stuck on easy mechanics like limit cut in 9 i'm grateful i'm in a reliable group..

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Originally Posted by OgruMogru

Combo of the state of PF AND the attitude of some of my static [which forced us into pf in the first place] made it absolutely miserable this time around. I had a panic attack and was just...weeping involuntarily from all the stress. Not like physically boo-hooing and pushing the crying out, my eyes were just streaming I couldn't stop it. Turned up to our next scheduled raid day already resolved to quit. Got the clear suffocating in the worst atmosphere I've ever been in, but we were finally free! The weapon dropped for my partner [Sch] and I won the coffer and it felt so good being able to just quit on the spot. The break in tension when we made eye contact seeing we were not only free but had scooped all the loot too was a good end to a horrible tier. We'll go back later with static members that didn't leave/weren't a bag of dicks to get the mount or any extra loot but it won't be for a very very long time. It's been the worst raid experience ever -by a huge margin-and we played [badly! unsuccessfully! miserably!] through Gordias back in the day.

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Jesus christ. I am so sorry this happened to you. I think the body checks pushes all the responsibility onto a single player so the toxicity can ramp up to 11. I am glad you got your clear and are free, I know how you feel, I still have an itch to finish the tier. It's a matter of pride at this point.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

Jesus christ. I am so sorry this happened to you. I think the body checks pushes all the responsibility onto a single player so the toxicity can ramp up to 11. I am glad you got your clear and are free, I know how you feel, I still have an itch to finish the tier. It's a matter of pride at this point.

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Sorry for the trauma dumping, I didn't even get to answer your question properly XD It's definitely the body check mechanics meaning so many mechanics are a pass/fail with no room for learning or recovering. And the most recent tiers have definitely been the worse for it. They're easy to understand in theory but they take practice and trial and error and people don't have the patience for it! Combine that with the rigid 2 minute meta meaning any mistake massively impacts the damage potential of everyone in the fight so people [specifically people that are extremely preoccupied with the funny numbers/ranking website] immediately get really pinchy and aggressive because normal mistakes and learning will always affect that "potential output" It's so dumb! It is totally possible to find patient competent people in PF but it's such a gamble and having to wait potentially for hours for the person with the right temperament to come along just makes it even worse. I still think statics are the way to go but the lesson we've learnt [the hard way!!] is to constantly keep checking in with people to make sure their expectations and commitments line up with everyone else's and just asking them to leave if those expectations don't align. Much harder to do that to people you build up a familiarity with as opposed to randoms in PF but muddling through on the mindset of "this time it'll be different! This pull will be different! This is the one!" just ends up getting really unhealthy. I misplaced my final Leylines on my clear so they were **just** out of the smaller arena for the last phase and it's still eating away at me XD

I really hope you manage to get your clear, in a static or in PF, and manage to have some fun along the way too!

I am still progging right now and just got past caloric 2 with my group and this has been the worst tier in terms of the amount of body checks. At this point I am just going for the clear. Not the weapon, not the mount, just the clear because p12s is just not fun.

Two of the stingiest, most anti customer companies of the gaming industry working together? I don't see it happening.

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Originally Posted by Aldath

Two of the stingiest, most anti customer companies of the gaming industry working together? I don't see it happening.

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They are indeed my friend. They are.

I think much like Island Sanctuary this content was being developed around the time of Lost Ark JP launch while it was still popular, let's just make everything super harddd dudeee helll yeeeeaaahhhhh screw anyone who hasn't got a static what are you some kinda friendless poor socially anxious freak? I don't like it. Soon as I heard you "Need" Static for so and so fight I just gave up I'm fine with doing casual content since nothing harder is compulsory anyway. I always said PF Legends never die but my servers PF is dead, and I'm not doing so hot either.

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Originally Posted by LilFlowers

I think much like Island Sanctuary this content was being developed around the time of Lost Ark JP launch while it was still popular, let's just make everything super harddd dudeee helll yeeeeaaahhhhh screw anyone who hasn't got a static what are you some kinda friendless poor socially anxious freak? I don't like it. Soon as I heard you "Need" Static for so and so fight I just gave up I'm fine with doing casual content since nothing harder is compulsory anyway. I always said PF Legends never die but my servers PF is dead, and I'm not doing so hot either.

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It's not even that it's necessarily hard, it's just incredibly punishing. PF works fine when you can A. recover and B. make up for weaker members but recently the mechanics just don't allow for it, if you have a weaker player you simply get to start all over and it's not a fun experience for anyone.

I said this before when talking about job design. Since the difficulty of playing your job has drastically lowered over the last two expansions they have tried to make up for it with much tighter mechanic checks but this has completely skewed the balance of difficulty in one direction.
If you have someone who isn't great at executing precise movement quickly and consistently your experience is going to be absolutely awful and random savage pugs have historically never been good at that.