Hello, this is kind of just a rant off my chest, but I'm struggling with playing mmo's lately because they're all so solo-oriented or instance oriented. All the group activities are going to result in me never seeing people again and our conversation limited to a "hi", a joke here or there and a "gg" never to be seen again.
Why is RP or statics the only mmo part of the game right now?
I just want an mmo to be multiplayer outside of instances
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11-10-2023, 01:10 PMZolvoltI just want an mmo to be multiplayer outside of instances
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11-10-2023, 01:19 PMBoblawblah
It sounds like you need to find a group of friends to play with.
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11-10-2023, 01:21 PMAsari5
a group to travel through those elite areas full with overworld enemies?
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11-10-2023, 01:28 PMRitsukoSonoda
A large part of the issue is the design direction of the game essentially being built like a single player with optional player slots for friends in most content. It also resulted in a heavy story driven focus with your character as the unstoppable hero that hardly ever acknowledges the existence of other players outside of a handful of cutscenes where they told you to find allies before a trial or something. Also the actual overworld is severely lacking in staying power for players as the zones mostly end up as ghost towns once the story moves away from them and players have bought all the things they want from the crystal vendors or gotten their drops from the super fates. There are also convenience features like duty finder which eliminated the need to travel to duty entrances after unlocking them the first time so people can just lounge around all day in a town, FC house, private house, etc and queue duties.
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11-10-2023, 01:34 PMKageTokage
I do think we could use more in the way of large-scale multiplayer content...which exploratory zones provided the most of.
When it comes to the overworld hunts, special FATEs, and treasure maps are the only things that drag people out in large quantities. -
11-10-2023, 01:40 PMJeeqbit
I do see people again on my world, quite a lot actually. Often the same hardcore players are at whatever the latest grind is, such as a beast tribe, custom delivery, the gold saucer, hunts or where ever else. I see the same people at hunts especially. The idea of a Free Company is you all become friends and hang out at the FC house. As you mentioned, roleplaying or venues is a common way people see eachother regularly as well. The gold saucer is a place people interact sometimes as well.
The problem with open world content is they can't control how many people are there. Sometimes it can be too much, the enemies melt in an unintended way and everything lags. Sometimes it can be too little and everyone struggles with the open world content. Instances allow this to be properly controlled and balanced so that the content only happens when there is the right amount of players. -
11-10-2023, 01:42 PMZolvolt
I guess I don't see [doing content by myself in the vicinity of other people doing content by themself] as a multiplayer experience.
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11-10-2023, 03:03 PMchaotix69
Start a FC. Or use the party finder and advertise what you're looking for. You will meet people over time that you can play with regularly. I personally like the way the game is right now, but video games also don't consume my life, so that might be why I find it appealing.
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11-10-2023, 03:11 PMRitsukoSonodaOff their initial post it felt to me like the OP was actually looking for either an experience more like older MMO's like FFXI during it's prime where the majority of the game's content was in the overworld as opposed to locked instances with a handful of people that dissolved the moment the boss or task was completed, or the lively and social MMO worlds depicted in various anime/manga centered around an MMORPG.Quote:
Originally Posted by chaotix69
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11-10-2023, 04:02 PMLilFlowers
No one is gonna hit up a random they just did content with and ask to be friends, you have to go out of your way to make those connections even within an FC and even then those connections might not be the strongest if it's all based around one game and your mutual enjoyment of it. It can be tough but I think a lot of people assume you wanna be left alone to do your own thing. I'd also encourage you to try Guild Wars 2 and either level boost or push through its initial (even more single-player feeling than FF if you can believe it) personal story quests, and go out into it's open world to try that out for a bit.
It has a focus on open world group content that anyone can easily join in on, imagine if every map in FF was like Bozja/Eureka with farmable world bosses popping off constantly. Even with a game like that you can still feel like you're alone and doing content "beside" people though which brings me back to my original point, in order to do content WITH people you kinda have to step back and stop doing content for a second and just talk to people. I've found myself hanging out with people who don't even do dailies or keep up with the weekly tome cap which no offense isn't my style of play, so I find myself more often than not doing my own thing and reaching different goals in the game now days.
Also, linkshells, discord, and PF use those tools to find like minded people or even maybe recommend the game to an IRL friend. It sucks but the days of a social MMO on the level of old school Runescape or Everquest is kinda done which has negative and positive consequences that we gotta adapt and deal with as online game enjoyers. -
11-10-2023, 04:08 PMEastwall
Sounds like you need to give Guild wars 2 a try. It is an open world game. It got a bunch open world meta events that are fun to do with decent reward.
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11-10-2023, 04:39 PMLarirawiel
Everquest 1 is the game you want @Threadstarter. :)
Cheers -
11-10-2023, 06:28 PMVolgia
I've been playing Eureka the past couple of days and I do get to interact with a lot of people. Bozja was the same but I don't know how populated it is rn...
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11-10-2023, 06:46 PMReap00People will ignore this statement as it is the most logical answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
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11-10-2023, 07:24 PMVolgiaQuote:
Originally Posted by Reap00
Well I guess it depends, are you asking them to bring friends from the outside, or are you asking them to make friends inside the game? Cuz if it's the latter, unless you're working towards some goal or are roleplayer, you really don't get to be social. You can finish the game without speaking to a single person.
If OP wants the true MMO experience they have to do Bozja or Eureka, or at least go into PF to find some goals to go into (BLU, Savage, old savage min ilvl, etcera) -
11-10-2023, 08:06 PMNovaUltimatumThis comes across as quite condescending. There are problems with modern MMO's ability to forge friendships that could be addressed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
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11-10-2023, 08:15 PMJonskyQuote:
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
The way I interpret Zolvolt's post - He's looking for non-duty finder content that has an easy drop-in, easy drop-out style of gameplay that doesn't break the flow for other players, regardless of if they're friends or strangers. All the better if they are strangers (new potential friends ;)).Quote:
Originally Posted by Reap00
Some general content off of the top of my head are:- Crafting - Can be done anywhere
- FATE Farming - Relatively evergreen (for Relics or Bicolour Gemstones)
- FETEs at the Firmament - Occurs every second day at 1h 30m intervals for 12(?) hours
- Gathering at Timed Nodes - Get the stuff, zoop to the next node and wait
- Optional Quests - One-and-done gameplay
- S Rank Monster Spawning - An arcane art not known (or employed) by many
Something that could aid in this (and has been mentioned a lot) is to take the content formulae that have been used for Eureka and/or Bozja and apply it to non-instanced zones.
S Ranks could be changed into Notorious Monsters like in Eureka, FATEs could be changed into Skirmishes and Critical Engagements like in Bozja. Additionally there could be pseudo-instances added that are like The Baldesion Arsenal, Castrum Lacus Litore, and the Dalriada. -
11-10-2023, 09:00 PMLuluna
I understand what the poster means. If you went back to 1.0 the world was so alive with players. Quests and grouping up for leve's and also levelling party's like FFXI and also Notorious monsters. Since then the world changed and it is very rare to see player's doing anything other than hunts, fates here and there and the odd gatherer. I think times have sadly changed the game is massive now and a lot of the newer player's are happy with it being this way.
I am older and love the style off FFXI and still to this day dislike a lot of the changes that came. I play because it is FF and I have invested money and time. Like somebody has mentioned Eureka has more of that kind of feel and I really enjoyed it, so maybe it is worth a look and you can get some good exp in there and the world feels more alive. -
11-10-2023, 11:09 PMToutatisit depends at what time you go. Evenings and weekends aren’t bad but outside that I found myself doing the ShB relic quests in Bozja alone 90% of the time earlier this year. Had to solo spawn and clear my own Critical Engagements.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volgia
Having Critical Engagements that would spawn occasionally in the open world in addition to fates would be nice. Having to go to Bozja isn’t very fun: you’re stuck in an instance, if you want to check your retainers, empty your inventory, help a friend, you have to exit and lose your essences.
Atm open world group content is pretty much limited to fate farming, hunt trains and treasure map runs. -
11-10-2023, 11:34 PMSaltyDaddy
Imagine if they would do events like GW2. Or at least some always happening stuff like they have in WOW. But no. SE is incopetent to even release more hunts/super fates. Even the bare minimum. If we dont count beast tribes, overworld gets unchanged since expansion release. Its pathetic.
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11-10-2023, 11:45 PMKhryseis_AstraI’m thinking Eureka is more populated lately because Krile has a prominent role in the story and will likely be the new caster job character in Dawntrail. :) I decided to go back and make another relic weapon, and I’ve found it really active. Honestly the whole vibe of Eureka is great… groups working together to spawn the NM fates and almost always setting a pull time and waiting for others to get there, people willing to travel to inconvenient locations to rez you if you die, people who will explain how things work in each zone… the relics are still a bit of a grind, but I always enjoy my time there. After I finish my latest relic, I’m going to try and get in on a BA run sometime before Dawntrail, since that’s the only thing I haven’t done yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volgia
Just last night I was in a small party in Pyros, and someone had put in shout chat that the instance was locked and a bunch of people started leaving. But Penny only had about 10 minutes left til her spawn window, so we decided to try and farm for it, joined by one other solo player. And it popped! The poor tank’s instance timer was running out and it kicked him out midway through the fight. Our healer kept me and the other dps alive while we took turns holding aggro on the boss and even rezzed and healed the solo player! And we cleared it with just the four and a half of us! lol good times! -
11-10-2023, 11:46 PMkaynide
It’s not a bad want, but it’s just not the direction the game is designed in. If I wanna feel like a part of a swarm of players in an mmo, I play guild wars. When I want an interactable soap opera, well… here we are.
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11-11-2023, 12:02 AMVolgiaI am working towards BA myself. Its something nice to do, and that EW is clearly missing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khryseis_Astra
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11-11-2023, 12:08 AMPoporito_PopotoFunny, I soloed EQ1 from 32 to level cap 60 through grinding mobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Larirawiel
I miss it, though not as much as Ultima Online.
So yea...more solo content please. At least using trusts for MSQ trials. -
11-11-2023, 12:51 AMErinellza
This is why I play GW2 as a side MMO, their open world dynamic/meta events are more fun and rewarding than FATEs in XIV.
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11-11-2023, 01:22 AMKrojackFF14 is what you make of it. I do MANY things with friends outside of instances. I think you need to explore more of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zolvolt
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11-11-2023, 01:25 AMJojoyaSitting in an instance with 7 other players does not make a MMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zolvolt
Hunt trains and S ranks? Now that's MMO to the point that if you have an older PC or PS4 you're going to struggle in the chaos.
You can join FATE farming groups. Better yet, focus on the chain FATEs that spawn the big ones that crowds will show up for.
You can join Treasure Map parties (though that's split between open world and instance).
If players want the game to feel like a MMO, it's up to them to take the initiative. The game isn't going to force it on players.
Don't forget: during the 10 year Roadmap Live Letter, YoshiP said he wants the game to stop being known as a MMORPG and start being known as a RPG that can be played solo or with friends.
Most of those problems are due to the way people have chosen to play MMOs.Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaUltimatum
They want huge populations around them. They want convenience. They want "efficiency". They want to be done as quickly as possible. They don't want to waste time stricking up friendships with people they meet through random matchmaking but they exclusively use random matchmaking to do the majority of their content that they aren't doing solo.
MMOs that try to go old school when it comes to party forming get hits with tons of complaints about "it's not convenient", "it doesn't respect my time", "I feel like I get excluded", etc.
What's a developer to do when the way players approach game play is in opposition to the things they say they want? -
11-11-2023, 01:31 AMcaffe_macchiatoThe developers want FFXIV to be a solo game, and that's fine. What FFXIV excels at is being a social network where you can meet people to play other games with. When you combine this with adult activities, it's clear why FFXIV is still so enormously popular. It allows you to talk to people who are interested in the same other games that you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zolvolt
Do you have "rizz"? If not, you should practice. Try emoting to someone whose character you are attracted to. If they have "WU/T" or "F+" in their search info, that means they're open for discussion. Then you'll probably be roped into some adult content, which is normal because this is FFXIV. Now you have a friend! They usually play a different game most of the time, because of course, it's FFXIV. Now every time you log on you can AFK with your friends while playing your other games. Now that's what I call multiplayer! -
11-11-2023, 01:43 AMstrawberrycake
The problem is that they haven't decided to invest into meaningful ways to do content in the open world and most of it ends up being a grindfest at the exact same location for everyone even remotely interested in doing MMO like content.
FFXIV is a very linear game, so all of it's solutions are linear. Modern MMOs approach this problem in two ways. Way number 1 is to have non-linear solutions that progress you to the same point, such as not having to do each part of a string of quests in an exact order, starting players at different locations depending on a choice they can make or by creating a world event with multiple ways to earn reward towards character progression surrounding the quests needed to progress in whatever content is being done.
Solution number 2 is Phasing or sharding, similar to instances, but simply having a certain amount of people allowed in said shard or phase of the open world, this allows them to control the amount of people you see thus making the interactions more personal. Sadly XIV doesn't utilize sharding seamlessly, like other MMOs use phasing seamlessly. you have to manually switch and sadly XIV doesn't use this during major events all the time.
FF also has become more Discord Oriented, which I am wholly against due to it making the game feel very dead, I enjoy that in other games I play people are talking and conversing about content we're all doing and making groups for content. I suggest to you if you care, to not let others discourage you, this is a very serious issue with the state of the game for many other like minded players, we want said issue to change to. Hopefully we'll see that happen one day! -
11-11-2023, 01:02 PMRitsukoSonoda
I'm still thinking the thing the OP is actually looking for is more opportunities for social interaction and meeting new people in game during gameplay and actual exportation. It doesn't seem like an actual issue in regards to having friends to do instanced content with.
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11-11-2023, 01:14 PMAnnRam
If you aren't a degen who visit mare lamentorum every day or don't (e)RP It's going to be really hard to make """""""""""Friends""""""""".
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11-11-2023, 01:26 PMBoblawblahWhy do you put friends in a bunch of quotes like that?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnRam
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11-11-2023, 04:50 PMRaraka
I actually started playing Wakfu on a fresh-start server that they have now and I can see perfectly what you mean
While I know most people playing XIV would preffer duty finder to stay as is, in Wakfu, as there is no duty finder, I have been going out of my way to meet people, just so we can make parties to do dailies or farm gear later. Parking myself outside of a dungeon for the same 5-10 mins I would queue in XIV, asking for party or making one with strangers doing their quest or leveling...
It became soul crushing realizing I talked more with people in Wakfu in a couple days than I did in XIV for the last 2 or 3 months, people REALLY dont have a reason or need to talk with others in XIV and, that really shows me why Bozja and Savage were the most fun content I could think of... because you speak with others -
11-11-2023, 06:57 PMTaleraRistain
I think in regards to MMOs in general, developers realized that when they didn't bake forced grouping into the design of their game that a lot of players chose to do things more on their own and interact with others on their own terms and as they wanted to. So you started seeing more options for solo progression than you had back in EQ1's day. There are still ways we can choose to be social in modern MMOs. It's just not something that the game is going to force on players.
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11-11-2023, 10:14 PMAldath
Honestly, this can create a whole set of issues if not implemented correctly. Let me give you three examples, one of which is from our very own game.
Guild Wars 2: This game, for the most part, focuses on open world instances full of activities designed to be completed by groups, much like our exploratory zones. Now, although there are some very cool things, like raiding a huge dragon tree on falling platforms or assaulting an ancient city overtaken by horrors, it creates the issue that when this content is no longer relevant, it becomes almost impossible to complete. Players always move on, that's right, but it's easier to ignore the existanse of instances than something that actively happens on a map; not to mention, you also have to adjust your playtime schedule to the spawn timers of said events. GW2 has twice as much dead content as us in a relatively big MMO, it makes its state look worse than what it really is because it's a bunch of abandoned public events you can't complete.
Lost Ark: Pretty much further proves how the above could be a bad idea. Lost Ark has a horizontal progression system that involves exploring zones and islands which in turn give you rewards that ease your vertical progression. Some of the islands and events are designed to be completed as a community, from organizing a Dwarven ale factory tour to breaking a wall with millions of HP to access an area with collectibles. Same thing happens though: people are done with it, move on, and God help you if you needed to do it because there's no one willing to do it anymore. At least GW2 has tried to make group content an optional part of progress.
FF XIV: No need to look much further, we have Bozja and Eureka. Just like in GW2, they are group effort oriented maps that require a large amount of invested players. Although it presents a way of scaling to a lower amount of players, it doesn't change the fact that people who aren't part of a Discord group or FC will find it incredibly hard to progress thorough each zone, pretty much killing any feeling of spontaneous group play and discovery; also, PF groups for some of the Eureka/Bozja content exist, but are harder to find than what some people would have you believe.
So, yeah, without proper future proofing and incentives, said content can become a waste. I mean, CBU3 can't even properly fix/scale older stuff, I wouldn't trust them to figure out something other MMOs also seem to miss. -
11-12-2023, 12:54 AMcaffe_macchiatoNah, you totally could make friends without gooning. But they’re gonna be playing other games most of the time. To get the most out of FFXIV, you have to be proficient in FFXIV and another game. Because FFXIV is never enough for people anymore. People barely stick around for half the year. And the ones that do mod their clients so much that it’s not even the same game.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnRam
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11-12-2023, 12:56 AMBoblawblahWhich group are you in?Quote:
Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato
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11-12-2023, 03:26 AMcaffe_macchiatoHave you not seen people's search info? Twitter/Twitch? Discord? You can't escape it unless you're intentionally ignoring it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
https://twitter.com/hashtag/FFXIVScreenshots
https://twitter.com/hashtag/gpose
https://twitter.com/hashtag/ffxivcommunity
https://ffxivvenues.com/
https://www.twitch.tv/directory/cate...asy-xiv-online
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._have_this_in/
Or, those with better scruples are likely to take his advice:
https://files.catbox.moe/31voxv.jpg