Tentative news: Completion of Eden and Warring Triad recommended before 6.5 MSQ

I am seeing a few claims today that Yoshida may have recommended completion of the Eden and Warring Triad storylines before playing the patch 6.5 MSQ, and that this will affect dialogue and cutscenes.

The claimed source is a Famitsu article posted on the Japanese FFXIV Twitter account, but as I don't read Japanese, I can't confirm that source for myself.

Are there any more solid links to this information? They will likely mention it at the live letter tomorrow if it is correct.

It's pretty big news if true. People have been concerned by the lack of integrating these obvious other questlines.


Edit to add: Whether officially recommended or not, I would still do these quests to be certain, and also the Shadowbringers role quests and the additional quests following them. All have a chance to be referenced to some degree, from what we know of the MSQ content.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I am seeing a few claims today that Yoshida may have recommended completion of the Eden and Warring Triad storylines before playing the patch 6.5 MSQ, and that this will affect dialogue and cutscenes.

The claimed source is a Famitsu article posted on the Japanese FFXIV Twitter account, but as I don't read Japanese, I can't confirm that source for myself.

Are there any more solid links to this information? They will likely mention it at the live letter tomorrow if it is correct.

It's pretty big news if true. People have been concerned by the lack of integrating these obvious other questlines.

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Thank you for the heads-up - particularly since I thought I'd done the Warring Triad quests, but realised I haven't and have started them now.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Thank you for the heads-up - particularly since I thought I'd done the Warring Triad quests, but realised I haven't and have started them now.

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Warring Triad is sneaky for completion. If you pick up the obvious starting point in Ishgard as soon as it appears, you'll only get the first part of the storyline that unlocks Bismarck and Ravana EX, and the rest of it doesn't appear until later in the patch cycle, by which point you have no more reason to ever enter the solar again.

Also, given the Triad and Eden recommendations, that suggests there is also a third implicit recommendation to complete the four Shadowbringers role quests and the follow-up quests from that. So if you haven't done those already, work on them after you've finished Triad.

Cylva made her debut in MSQ (even if it was just to point you in the direction of the Role Quests) so she's the one I could feasibly see appear in 6.5. Not holding my breath for Gaia or especially Unukalhai though, the most they're likely to get is being acknowledged in a bit of (optional) dialogue, I think...

This sounds like what I've been saying for... I don't know how long: they're gonna have a decent amount of optional dialog (and possibly a sidequest) connecting to Gaia and Unukalhai. The lack of mentioning the void quests or ShB all-roles capstone quest suggests they probably won't bring in Cylva or that whole project, although it's possible that they might, and it just wasn't mentioned either to not tip their hand too much, or just to give a briefer answer.

But yeah, pretty unsurprised but pleased by this. I think it's a proper setting of expectations, too; yeah, they'll be bringing that stuff up, but not to such a huge degree that it'll influence the story. They're not making it mandatory (thankfully).

Worth remembering that they do have the tech to have NPCs conditionally present in cutscenes, though. On a technical level, it would be possible to have a scene that has Gaia in it and gives her a few lines if you've done Eden, but plays out without her otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Warring Triad is sneaky for completion. If you pick up the obvious starting point in Ishgard as soon as it appears, you'll only get the first part of the storyline that unlocks Bismarck and Ravana EX, and the rest of it doesn't appear until later in the patch cycle, by which point you have no more reason to ever enter the solar again.

Also, given the Triad and Eden recommendations, that suggests there is also a third implicit recommendation to complete the four Shadowbringers role quests and the follow-up quests from that. So if you haven't done those already, work on them after you've finished Triad.

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Thanks again :)

Sadly, the Shadowbringers role quests are going to be a stumbling block for me as I haven't played a healer or tank job.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Sadly, the Shadowbringers role quests are going to be a stumbling block for me as I haven't played a healer or tank job.

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If you want to get a tank and healer levelled purely to get through the story quests, I would suggest picking up gunbreaker and sage and just levelling them up through low-pressure content like tribe quests, deep dungeons and maybe trusts or Bozja.

The final battle test for the healer quests is basically "can you keep this party member healed up and occasionally cast a sleep spell?"

It's been a while since I did the tank quest, I think it was a bit more "run around and dodge things" but if you struggle with it there's always Very Easy mode to fall back on.


Also, I should mention that if you pick up sage and try to do its job quests, the intro battle seems overtuned and harder than actual dungeon healing, so don't feel like it's your fault if you fail it. I wouldn't ideally recommend sage as a first healer class, but the level 70 starting point is too good to pass up if you don't actually intend to use it beyond the role quest.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

If you want to get a tank and healer levelled purely to get through the story quests, I would suggest picking up gunbreaker and sage and just levelling them up through low-pressure content like tribe quests, deep dungeons and maybe trusts or Bozja.

The final battle test for the healer quests is basically "can you keep this party member healed up and occasionally cast a sleep spell?"

It's been a while since I did the tank quest, I think it was a bit more "run around and dodge things" but if you struggle with it there's always Very Easy mode to fall back on.


Also, I should mention that if you pick up sage and try to do its job quests, the intro battle seems overtuned and harder than actual dungeon healing, so don't feel like it's your fault if you fail it. I wouldn't ideally recommend sage as a first healer class, but the level 70 starting point is too good to pass up if you don't actually intend to use it beyond the role quest.

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Sound advice. The main reason I've never looked at playing Healer is that I hate the idea of other players relying on me for anything; I have no real talent for the game and struggle with elements of the content that others frequent lament as being too easy.

I guess levelling via methods with little or no participation from other players is a way around my shortcomings in this regard though.

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Originally Posted by Tsiron

Cylva made her debut in MSQ (even if it was just to point you in the direction of the Role Quests) so she's the one I could feasibly see appear in 6.5.

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The thing is, while she has technically appeared in MSQ in that small capability, there's no reason for "merely the waitress at the Wandering Stairs" to get involved in our efforts to bridge the rift. We need to have at least reached the conclusion of the role quests for her to have any significance here.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

The lack of mentioning the void quests or ShB all-roles capstone quest suggests they probably won't bring in Cylva or that whole project, although it's possible that they might, and it just wasn't mentioned either to not tip their hand too much, or just to give a briefer answer.

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I guess Warring Triad completion might just affect whether they refer back to Unukalhai's past involvement with the Thirteenth, and nothing about his present state.

I can't help thinking that there was a missed opportunity, to say the least, that instead of moving Unukalhai from standing around since the end of the Warring Triad directly into leaving for the First. At minimum they should have name-dropped him a few times as helping out with Scion stuff even if we never saw him; at most, we could have done with some additional optional quests showing him interacting with the other Scions more normally.

Somewhere in the middle, a Tales From chapter about him would be useful.

I wonder if they'd be interested in retroactively applying that "conditional appearance in cutscenes" tech to give him a few extra appearances...?

I'm glad that they said this as now people who might have not done those yet or don't remember things about them will hopefully go and do those or freshen up their memories of them. I highly doubt we will get more than a few nods or having them show up in the background during a CS. Or like how prior to kicking off the Ilsabard contingent those who had done everything had a much fuller room of npcs to poke. Or a more crowded dock when the adamantite shipments arrived.

One thing I could see happening is that Gaia is "just there" in cutscenes but then she's present between cutscenes and has some dialogue then.

Although, I would have to check but I think some of the "adamantite montage" scenes were longer or shorter depending on quest flags and who turned up, so it is possible that they will do the same thing here. And non-cutscene conversations can definitely take various routes.

I also wonder, if you've completed everything including the Void questline, whether we might get a non-cutscene moment of Gaia talking to Cyella and Unukalhai while you're supposed to be off doing MSQ stuff with Ryne. Like, not particularly highlighted but if you go to the Wandering Stairs you'll find them in conversation. Both of them are mentioning Eden-related things if you talk to them currently, and Unukalhai says that he has arranged to meet with the people involved in restoring the Empty.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

One thing I could see happening is that Gaia is "just there" in cutscenes but then she's present between cutscenes and has some dialogue then.

Although, I would have to check but I think some of the "adamantite montage" scenes were longer or shorter depending on quest flags and who turned up, so it is possible that they will do the same thing here. And non-cutscene conversations can definitely take various routes.

I also wonder, if you've completed everything including the Void questline, whether we might get a non-cutscene moment of Gaia talking to Cyella and Unukalhai while you're supposed to be off doing MSQ stuff with Ryne. Like, not particularly highlighted but if you go to the Wandering Stairs you'll find them in conversation. Both of them are mentioning Eden-related things if you talk to them currently, and Unukalhai says that he has arranged to meet with the people involved in restoring the Empty.

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Whilst you're probably right, I do hope that they do a bit more with Gaia than that. She's an interesting character and it'd be a pity if she ends up being pushed into the background.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Whilst you're probably right, I do hope that they do a bit more with Gaia than that. She's an interesting character and it'd be a pity if she ends up being pushed into the background.

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I should add, my overall expectation with this is that while the main plot reaches the end of its involvement with the Thirteenth and goes on holiday to Tural, we are going to get further continuation of the Void quests now with added Eden, and possibly also involving Zero if she makes it out of this MSQ plot alive and doesn't join the Scions (which I don't expect her to).

So that would be potentially four different strands of MSQ-offshoot storylines twisting back together into a solid side plot.

Every single raid and alliance raid should become mandatory further down the line if it serves the story. They can be completed blindfolded after a couple of patches so there is zero reason not to.

It is not from a Famitsu article, but rather from a Dengeki Online article. I can see the confusion though, the interview was done jointly by both magazines, published simultaneously and features overlapping questions and answers.

The article in question: https://dengekionline.com/articles/202762/

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--Next, let me ask you about the main story quest of patch 6.5. The most surprising thing about the screenshots that were announced at the Producer's Letter LIVE (PLL) the other day was the scene where Zero is with Ryne in the First. The First is where Unukalhai and Cyella (who are closely related to the Thirteenth) are. Their story has progressed separately from the main story, but will there be some kind of connection to the story while playing the quest?

Yoshida: Not just in this patch, but we've adjusted the dialogue in a very detailed way, changing the content slightly for those who played their quests and those who have not. We are doing that again this time, and I think those who have played the side story about them will feel a connection.

It is a little more in-depth than usual, and the cutscenes and dialogue change as you complete them, including the "Eden" story. This story is easier to get into now that the "New Game+" allows for you to experience it. If you are interested in this, we recommend that you complete the side stories of "The Warring Triad" and "Eden" before the release of Patch 6.5.

However, we have avoided making the gameplay experience significantly different depending on whether or not you have played those quests, so the development will not change significantly. I would like to think that it is just enough for those who like Lore (world/story setting) to see it and feel that it's being followed. I just hope that people who like lore (world/story setting) will see it and feel like they're being followed.

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Pardon any mistranslations.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Although, I would have to check but I think some of the "adamantite montage" scenes were longer or shorter depending on quest flags and who turned up, so it is possible that they will do the same thing here. And non-cutscene conversations can definitely take various routes.

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There's plenty of instances of cutscenes having additional dialog boxes if you've done something else, rather than just changed (the most recent I can think of is the explanation of the Thirteenth's fall adding in Unukalhai if you've done, funnily enough, the Warring Triad). What was new as of the Endwalker montages was NPCs being conditionally present; the most obvious I can think of is when the Ironworks turn up, they've got Alpha with them only if you've completed Omega.

What they've never done to my knowledge is combine those two; while I might be wrong, I don't think we've ever had a conditionally-present NPC given lines. Given the game we're talking about, it's hard to say if that's because that's technically impossible, or just something they haven't done yet.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I should add, my overall expectation with this is that while the main plot reaches the end of its involvement with the Thirteenth and goes on holiday to Tural, we are going to get further continuation of the Void quests now with added Eden, and possibly also involving Zero if she makes it out of this MSQ plot alive and doesn't join the Scions (which I don't expect her to).

So that would be potentially four different strands of MSQ-offshoot storylines twisting back together into a solid side plot.

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This would be sooo cool! Imagine Zero, Cylva, Taynor, Unukalhai, Ryne and Gaia as a band of heroes against the darkness, maybe joined by Cerigg, Giott, Lue-Reeq and Granson. And maybe Azdaja stays a void dragon and helps them out too. Like once those characters can become active in their own story rather than passively stand around that would be so epic.

Really glad they're trying to bridge over more meaningfully to that part of the story, it is such an integral part of the lore and I loved the additional cutscene in 5.2 (I think it was 5.2) with Cylva.

I suspect the new dialogue maybe involved with Unukalhai's quest to find a way to ave the 13th shard.

It should not be a issue now to complete it since players can easily solo the Extreme fights unsynced and players do not need to do the Extreme mode of the Triad part.

Unukalhai's quest did leave on a cliffhanger being he is still searching for a way to fix the 13th shard with Cyella and the Job Role NPCs who have formed their own little team. With the main focus of this MSQ partly being about fixing the 13th shard, it will explain why these side storylines may end up affectinga good amount of dialogue in the upcoming MSQ since these characters maybe involved.

Of course they should have dialogue for players who did not do certain side story quests like Unukalhai's quests due to the certain conditions of going through most of the Extreme mode for 3.X contents. However, as I said they can be done now easily by unsync for solo if players wish to have them done for any potential alternate dialogue in the upcoming MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I am seeing a few claims today that Yoshida may have recommended completion of the Eden and Warring Triad storylines before playing the patch 6.5 MSQ, and that this will affect dialogue and cutscenes.

The claimed source is a Famitsu article posted on the Japanese FFXIV Twitter account, but as I don't read Japanese, I can't confirm that source for myself.

Are there any more solid links to this information? They will likely mention it at the live letter tomorrow if it is correct.

It's pretty big news if true. People have been concerned by the lack of integrating these obvious other questlines.


Edit to add: Whether officially recommended or not, I would still do these quests to be certain, and also the Shadowbringers role quests and the additional quests following them. All have a chance to be referenced to some degree, from what we know of the MSQ content.

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I definitely could see the reason to complete eden and after thinking about it assuming they bring those two characters the warring triad but its more of a loose connection.Quite frankly going to need something more powerful than eden to even get started on the 13th. Much of the landmass is gone I really can't see eden magically reforming land sea and air. From what cut scenes we have seen of the thirteenth the landmasses look like churning mists area of hsw and the troja castle which again looks like it might have come out of hsw again And let us not forget the fact there are multiple blue orbs in the sky of which i highly doubt are full or cloud of darkness. Should only be one. ( i can only hope they revisit it at some point and clean things up)

Even my expectations are low for this. They completely did not involve black mages for this entire side venture. Pretty much ignore the fact that there are probably void gates of some nature in weeping city , void ark, dun scaith. No instead we use alchemy and more ystola pulls. What abut how we took down holllow diabolos shield doing a concentrated assault you don't think that will work here because i bet it will. Seems like they forgot everything that happened in void ark, weeping city, and dun scaith and yet again basing it on the infernal crystal tower which i have had enough about. The tower can't solve every problem.

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Originally Posted by Grimr

I definitely could see the reason to complete eden and after thinking about it assuming they bring those two characters the warring triad but its more of a loose connection.Quite frankly going to need something more powerful than eden to even get started on the 13th.

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They're not loose connections at all. The Warring Triad introduces a character who came from the Thirteenth and witnessed its downfall, and has already been mentioned in this storyline if you had done it. Eden is directly relevant to what they are hoping to achieve here, having succeeded at a similar process.

And no, you don't get to decide whether it's enough or not. The Empty was in what could easily be the equal opposite of the void's state – excess stasis and excess activity aren't necessarily going to look the same.

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Originally Posted by Grimr

They completely did not involve black mages for this entire side venture. Pretty much ignore the fact that there are probably void gates of some nature in weeping city , void ark, dun scaith. No instead we use alchemy and more ystola pulls. What abut how we took down holllow diabolos shield doing a concentrated assault you don't think that will work here because i bet it will.

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I fail to see the relevance of any of these things.

Mhachi summoning rituals – as explained in the 6.1 lore dump on the void, and I'm pretty sure before that – only very temporarily open a voidgate to summon what they need before immediately closing it again. There aren't just permanent voidgates sitting there wide open in the city.

Why should we not use alchemy for this process when the alchemists are right there and have found a way to stabilise the gate for open travel? The Mhachi summoners probably never needed stability for their gates as they weren't trying to go in themselves and had no interest in letting the voidsent back there either. In any case, finding a portal from the Source to the Thirteenth is something we already solved last time, and the portal in the moon crater is still open (with a seal over it) right now if you go to look at it.

The only other thing that we know of that achieved a sustained, traversable voidgate was the Crystal Tower, which they did not use to solve this problem. As of the end of the original CT quest, the gate is broken, though it does seem possible that they'll try to start it up again since it is the only known MSQ-friendly potential connection between the First and Thirteenth right now. That wouldn't be "using the tower to solve every problem" but using it to solve one very specific problem that it is already established to be suited for.

I don't even know what you're trying to say with Diabolos Hollow. What problem would referencing that fight specifically solve?

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Thanks again :)

Sadly, the Shadowbringers role quests are going to be a stumbling block for me as I haven't played a healer or tank job.

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My wife was able to level gunbreaker and Sage exclusively on trusts/Crystal tower roulettes. It took a bit to do, but nothing ridiculous. Of course, in addition to massive role quest xp bumps. We are talking the lowest low effort for max gains.

Her main target was mogtomes to finish her dogo collection…but still- 2 birds 1 stone and all. If you just wanna see the story that is probably the easiest way.

If there were new side quests in the First (such as Void Quests pt. 2, perhaps?) do you think they would be listed in the Patch Notes? I seem to recall that being the case when Void Quests were first implemented, it's how we originally found out about them, right...?

guess thats why i keep getting triad in mentor roulette

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Originally Posted by Tsiron

If there were new side quests in the First (such as Void Quests pt. 2, perhaps?) do you think they would be listed in the Patch Notes? I seem to recall that being the case when Void Quests were first implemented, it's how we originally found out about them, right...?

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It could be something that gets added in a 6.5X patch so they don't have to mention it here? Or would they possibly keep it out of the patch notes altogether?

They won't necessarily continue it right now though; just at some point in future. Keep it bubbling along. 6.55 seems like a possibility for it.

It's only recommended though. It's really nice because I've been wanting for the 13 crew from the warring triad and ShB role quests to get some attention because of obvious reasons. Gaia is also a little bonus I guess. Was never a fan of her, but she exists and if they're willing to put the effort into allow those of us that finished Eden to see her in MSQ cutscenes then I'm fine with it.