Do we really need them?

Do we really need 2 tanks and 2 healers in normal 8 mans and 24 mans? I mean the content is so easy a child can clear it. I know square doesn’t want to stress a single healer out or with them dying the whole raid is more than likely dead but, give us some credit and trust in the players. There are more good players than bad ones. Yeah there will be some bad apples but that’s how you learn. Through trial and error.

I think there only needs to be 2 tanks and 2 healers for savage and ultimate content. A strong maybe for extremes and unreals. Thought I feel we can get pass those as well with a single tank and single healer as I’ve actually solo healed lots of them myself.

Just my opinion anyway.

Or they could, you know, design fights that require 2 tanks and 2 healers? The only reason we don't actually need 2 of each role is because they stripped both roles of almost all responsibility. Maybe we should ask them to make the roles needed instead of asking them to make the roles even more redundant?

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Or they could, you know, design fights that require 2 tanks and 2 healers? The only reason we don't actually need 2 of each role is because they stripped both roles of almost all responsibility. Maybe we should ask them to make the roles needed instead of asking them to make the roles even more redundant?

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Which we know that won’t do. We have been begging them for years to make tanks and healers more relevant and they haven’t and have no intention of doing. So why not just remove 1 of each at this point from the casual raids at least.

I guess I don't see the reason TO do it.

Like, the current situation works fine, so why muck with it at all? If we're going to remove them, why not remove ALL of them and just make them 24 DPS fights at that point? There's no real logic to the change.

The only reason they stopped requiring 2 tanks (CT original did) was because tanks were uncommon enough that it made ques super long for everyone else and so they figured they'd patch up the issue that way. But the current setup has all three roles commonly in the "less than 5 mins" category.

This is also true for Trials, btw, where DPS are sometimes the AIN, too.

In Normal 8 mans, I often find healer ques to be the longest, so reducing it to 1 healer would make healer ques even longer there, which is bad not good. So Trials, Normal Raids, and Alliance Raids all needing 2 healers (and Alliance being the only 1 tank per party) seems to be working very well. Changing it would make the ques all weird, and the content is generally, sorry to say, not supposed to be "challenging" to what a Savage raider would find challenging.

Also, limiting things to only 1 tank and 1 healer pigeonholes design even more. As much as we get annoyed with the light party stacks or role cleaves, that sort of thing would be even worse with T/H/6D parties. Tank swaps couldn't exist, so the little bit of agro management in the game would go away. As would dual tankbusters, making all the tank and healer skills devoted to dealing with those completely out of place.

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It just sounds like a lot of downsides and I'm not seeing what the upside is since even solo healer party 24 mans aren't going to keep Savage raid healers on their toes in any realistic sense, and as you say, you can already solo heal Extremes, so what changes, as we don't que for those anyway and you're already able to do it on your own should you so choose?

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

Which we know that won’t do. We have been begging them for years to make tanks and healers more relevant and they haven’t and have no intention of doing. So why not just remove 1 of each at this point from the casual raids at least.

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While it would make things more interesting for those of us who can, I can 100% see them instantly reverting the change upon the outcry of a newish tank/healer not being able to keep up or worse, make battle content even more bland than it currently is.

Now if we want to make it an option in DF settings, I would set that for my characters in a heartbeat.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

While it would make things more interesting for those of us who can, I can 100% see them instantly reverting the change upon the outcry of a newish tank/healer not being able to keep up or worse, make battle content even more bland than it currently is.

Now if we want to make it an option in DF settings, I would set that for my characters in a heartbeat.

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Yeah having a choice for single tank/healer will definitely be something I’m all for.

I don't think changing the role distribution between easy/hard content really makes a ton of sense, and would make it much harder for them to course correct and make normal mode raids/trials a little more involved again if they ever realize what we have now isn't really fostering a good play enviroment. That said, super hot take, but I feel like if kits and encounter design *don't* change too much from what we have now it might be worth looking into merging tank/healer into the same role and then having 8-mans be 3 support / 5 dps (one focused on tanking, one on party healing, and one to flex into OT/OH as needed depending on fight and party skill levels).

No.

Quoting Jocat:

"You're only there because the DF requires it".

Single tank, Single Healer would be perfectly easy in all normal content, even including EX content if the players are halfway decent.

Most DF groups already run this setup. That should tell you all you need to know.

There's absolutely not enough incoming damage in trials and alliance raids to require 2 healers. The only pain point is all the annoying insta-kill mechs these devs love to use that make it dangerous to have only one rezzer, since you can't always count on a SMN or RDM to be both present and awake.

Yet more reason they should enable Phoenix Downs in combat.

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Originally Posted by vetch

There's absolutely not enough incoming damage in trials and alliance raids to require 2 healers. The only pain point is all the annoying insta-kill mechs these devs love to use that make it dangerous to have only one rezzer, since you can't always count on a SMN or RDM to be both present and awake.

Yet more reason they should enable Phoenix Downs in combat.

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You hit the nail on the coffin. I agree. Not sure why can’t use Phoenix downs. It’s ridiculous. This hand just isn’t what it use to be back in the early years. Before it become a massive success and they destroyed the jobs.

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

You hit the nail on the coffin. I agree. Not sure why can’t use Phoenix downs.

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Because the healer role's niche now is 'has access to the ability to res, but does not deal enough damage to justify the stance of 'Why should I res and lose damage?''. Giving everyone access to PDs removes one of the few things left that healers have going for them probably

I'm legit planning to roll 3 tanks 1 healer with my static from the get go if we're all still playing in the next raid tier.

Tanks are better designed healers currently.

They should remove a healer in 24 man content. It's absolutely painful loading in and having double Sage. Really puts in perspective on how badly designed healers are.