DRK and DRG are extremely easy to counter in Frontlines

A DRG uses Geirskogul, attack them ASAP, force them to lose their momentum to use Guard or end Blood of the Dragon early.

A DRK charges at you, bind them with Gravity or silence with Bard.

You can even neutralize BH5 DRGs and DRKs by just using MNK LB when they're charging in.

Finally, see Salted Earth, just RP walk away, it's that easy to dodge. If you get stuck, use Guard. Or don't even get sucked in, DRKs are always so obvious when they just run in. And DRG's LB is ridiculously easy to dodge.

The really problematic class is actually Astrologian, sorry to say but I don't think you're very skillful if you think DRK and DRG are problematic ^^

I think the issue was never with these jobs, it was always frontlines that was the issue.

Which is why I'm turning this into a Rival Wings thread. Make Rival wings a roulette.

How is AST a problem lol

Easy to counter for experienced people, for sure. But most people you meet in FL will just keep on hitting the DRK that has Walking Dead up for 10 seconds straight and then complain about DRK being OP.

The moment groups will have no more than 4 players in a 10y radius from each other will be the moment DRK-pull-DRG-LB combo becomes weaker.

As long as people insist on playing deathball, any AOE support will have insane value.

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Originally Posted by Kathleen_

How is AST a problem lol

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You really have no clue do you ? DRK + AST is actually stronger than DRK + DRG because of doublecasted Gravity, Macrocosmos, and the ability to keep the DRK alive much more than it could've with a DRG. The best premades actually go with DRK AST AST [filler].

Dead people do no damage, drk + drg wipes out people unlike ast which doesn't but adds survivability to drk.

It's easier to survive when noone is left to shoot you, which is hella easy to accomplish in a mode where most people dunno how to play their job.

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Originally Posted by FenyxRising

You really have no clue do you ? DRK + AST is actually stronger than DRK + DRG because of doublecasted Gravity, Macrocosmos, and the ability to keep the DRK alive much more than it could've with a DRG. The best premades actually go with DRK AST AST [filler].

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lmfao
DRK and triple AST works against rouletters that don't have guard bound because it requires just a little bit less of setup and also because Macro is an oGCD. It does nothing against competent players. But then you'd say that DRG does nothing against guard either, and you'd be correct, which is why the meta comp is DRK, DRG and WAR for guard breaking, plus a flex (typically just another DRK for an additional pull, DRG for more burst, or another WAR to rotate LBs and guard break every other salted). AST and the "ability to keep the DRK alive" is a meme and you're out of your mind if you think that any ranged job is meta in this FL patch. Hell, I remember this one match on JP where some dudes were playing 4 AST and they switched to SMN halfway through the match because the average JP rouletter guards so their Macrocosmos burst was barely doing anything.
An AST charges at you? Literally sneeze in their general direction and it dies lmao

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Originally Posted by Kathleen_

lmfao
DRK and triple AST works against rouletters that don't have guard bound because it requires just a little bit less of setup and also because Macro is an oGCD. It does nothing against competent players. But then you'd say that DRG does nothing against guard either, and you'd be correct, which is why the meta comp is DRK, DRG and WAR for guard breaking, plus a flex (typically just another DRK for an additional pull, DRG for more burst, or another WAR to rotate LBs and guard break every other salted).
An AST charges at you? Literally sneeze in their general direction and it dies lmao

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Don't forget about dancer, just have them LB on top of the DrK and when everyone gets pulled into Salted Earth they literally can't do anything before they get flattened by Sky Shatter.

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Originally Posted by FenyxRising

A DRG uses Geirskogul, attack them ASAP, force them to lose their momentum to use Guard or end Blood of the Dragon early.

A DRK charges at you, bind them with Gravity or silence with Bard.

You can even neutralize BH5 DRGs and DRKs by just using MNK LB when they're charging in.

Finally, see Salted Earth, just RP walk away, it's that easy to dodge. If you get stuck, use Guard. Or don't even get sucked in, DRKs are always so obvious when they just run in. And DRG's LB is ridiculously easy to dodge.

The really problematic class is actually Astrologian, sorry to say but I don't think you're very skillful if you think DRK and DRG are problematic ^^

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These all work, sure... -in a vacuum. But Frontlines isn't a vacuum, so they don't work. ^^

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Originally Posted by Kathleen_

lmfao
DRK and triple AST works against rouletters that don't have guard bound because it requires just a little bit less of setup and also because Macro is an oGCD. It does nothing against competent players. But then you'd say that DRG does nothing against guard either, and you'd be correct, which is why the meta comp is DRK, DRG and WAR for guard breaking, plus a flex (typically just another DRK for an additional pull, DRG for more burst, or another WAR to rotate LBs and guard break every other salted). AST and the "ability to keep the DRK alive" is a meme and you're out of your mind if you think that any ranged job is meta in this FL patch. Hell, I remember this one match on JP where some dudes were playing 4 AST and they switched to SMN halfway through the match because the average JP rouletter guards so their Macrocosmos burst was barely doing anything.
An AST charges at you? Literally sneeze in their general direction and it dies lmao

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Of course nothing does well against competent players, but I said DRK AST AST [filler] not triple AST, learn to read ? Also imagine thinking DRG is better against competent players; competent players don't stack nicely in a line for your DRG burst ^^

And no AST charges at anyone, Macrocosmos is 20 yalms, if you're charging in sounds like you're playing it wrong.

It's always funny to see people apply logical plays to problems as if a duty roulette isn't full of strangers of varying skill levels and intent to commit. It's like telling a group of people who are Grand master to never seen the board before that a four-move check mate is easy to counter except sometimes you also don't have certain pieces and the pawns refuse to change to knights, bishops, or rooks.

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Originally Posted by FenyxRising

Of course nothing does well against competent players, but I said DRK AST AST [filler] not triple AST, learn to read ? Also imagine thinking DRG is better against competent players; competent players don't stack nicely in a line for your DRG burst ^^

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If you're going with something like WAR or RPR as filler instead of playing triple AST you might as well just drop the AST altogether in favour of the job that does more damage and isn't made out of paper. I'm not even going to bother commenting on the not stacking part... lol

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And no AST charges at anyone, Macrocosmos is 20 yalms, if you're charging in sounds like you're playing it wrong.

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I already know you waste your time trolling on the forums instead of playing the game, but are you being genuinely serious now or just trolling? It's a 20y circle, with its center being your hitbox, so the radius in front of you is 10y. LOL

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

It's always funny to see people apply logical plays to problems as if a duty roulette isn't full of strangers of varying skill levels and intent to commit. It's like telling a group of people who are Grand master to never seen the board before that a four-move check mate is easy to counter except sometimes you also don't have certain pieces and the pawns refuse to change to knights, bishops, or rooks.

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It doesn't matter if you're against skilled players or rouletters, because ultimately DRG does the same thing but better and is much tankier to boot. Pretending otherwise is just being delusional.

I thought the problem was that DRK and DRG are only op in Frontlines specifically, and pvp is balanced for CC, where both of them are only okay.

I dont think you can make frontlines feel good.

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Originally Posted by Kathleen_

It doesn't matter if you're against skilled players or rouletters, because ultimately DRG does the same thing but better and is much tankier to boot. Pretending otherwise is just being delusional.

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It does matter what the team make up is, but it doesn't matter if you try to apply strategy to a match up where half to three fourths of your team isn't paying attention or onboard with it. If you watch, you will see people play one of two ways. Murderball or stack spread based on the situation. You can't really know which you're going to get beforehand. You can of course try to educate people but that can also bear mixed fruit. Even with punctuation tone is completely lost on the majority of people so if you're trying to be helpful its often taken as a slight or disrespect. In the end the ownness is once again on Square for not bothering to do even a halfway decent job of teaching people before they turn them loose in the mode. You get encouraged to go do hall of the novice in PVE before your first dungeon and PVP should have something similar, except it should be mandatory.

Hi, only here to correct some info about Astrologian.

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Originally Posted by Kathleen_

I already know you waste your time trolling on the forums instead of playing the game, but are you being genuinely serious now or just trolling? It's a 20y circle, with its center being your hitbox, so the radius in front of you is 10y. LOL

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The 20y listed on Macrocosmos is not the circle span (diameter), that is the radius starting from you. Therefore Macrocosmos has a diameter of 40y (i.e. longest distance within the circle) with you as the center.

To explain the significance between 10y and 20y radius, here the surface area of those circles.
Formula: r² * π(pi) = ? y² (square yalms)

• (10)² * π = 314.1 y² (100% base)
• (20)² * π = 1256.6 y² (400% relative)

So a 10y radius circle only has a quarter of the surface area of a 20y radius circle.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Hi, only here to correct some info about Astrologian.

The 20y listed on Macrocosmos is not the circle span (diameter), that is the radius starting from you. Therefore Macrocosmos has a diameter of 40y (i.e. longest distance within the circle) with you as the center.

To explain the significance between 10y and 20y radius, here the surface area of those circles.
Formula: r² * π(pi) = ? y² (square yalms)

• (10)² * π = 314.1 y² (100% base)
• (20)² * π = 1256.6 y² (400% relative)

So a 10y radius circle only has a quarter of the surface area of a 20y radius circle.

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How embarrassing for Kathleen.

Sounds like she actually doesn't know how to play Astrologian. This tells you all you need to know about her credentials. ^^

No wonder she is dying again and again on Astro, she's charging in to Macrocosmos. Yikes.

He still ain't wrong though in general.

You can even take 2 BLM instead of 2 ast and have 6 flare/freeze charges of 2*12k st + 8k aoe, 4 * 3stack superflare dot/stun and 2 fouls for 16k dmg, and their lb recharges almost twice as fast so if you have 2 drk's you can do it again every minute if both drk's rotate.

Great to have an ast in your raid, but 2 ast really isn't the top combo for drk, there are several other ones that are straight up better.

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Originally Posted by FenyxRising

How embarrassing for Kathleen.

Sounds like she actually doesn't know how to play Astrologian. This tells you all you need to know about her credentials. ^^

No wonder she is dying again and again on Astro, she's charging in to Macrocosmos. Yikes.

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Fenyx, with all due respect, all I pointed out was technical details about Macrocosmos that someone may have gotten wrong. You can't infere from this error that they got closer for that reason - they might as well thought 10y radius is what is the actual 20y radius in physical distance.

If you tirelessly search for avenues to cause a shitstorm, don't let it be on a mere correction of math.

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Originally Posted by Llynethil

He still ain't wrong though in general.

You can even take 2 BLM instead of 2 ast and have 6 flare/freeze charges of 2*12k st + 8k aoe, 4 * 3stack superflare dot/stun and 2 fouls for 16k dmg, and their lb recharges almost twice as fast so if you have 2 drk's you can do it again every minute if both drk's rotate.

Great to have an ast in your raid, but 2 ast really isn't the top combo for drk, there are several other ones that are straight up better.

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BLM may do more damage in total, but in execution of the DRK combo, you'd want as much damage in as little time as possible (before people use Guard). In that, AST does way more damage than BLM can reasonably output in that timeframe. Flare + Superflare (15000) or Foul (16000) vs Doublecast Gravity + Macrocosmos (28000).

BLM can save the flares for when people start guarding and continue after, I've ran down tons of people while flarespamming when I have a drk ally pulling them in, speaking from experience, it is rediculously powerfull and you can do it from a safer distance than astro, which is the biggest plus.

That and it's a mass cc if you do some freezes ontop of it so you can snare them all after the guards go down as the ice stacks stay and continue to pile up even if guarded, so insta aoe bind/stun on enemy raid to allow other aoe to keep raining hell on em.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

BLM may do more damage in total, but in execution of the DRK combo, you'd want as much damage in as little time as possible (before people use Guard). In that, AST does way more damage than BLM can reasonably output in that timeframe. Flare + Superflare (15000) or Foul (16000) vs Doublecast Gravity + Macrocosmos (28000).

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100% this

Only DRG comes close

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Originally Posted by FenyxRising

How embarrassing for Kathleen.

Sounds like she actually doesn't know how to play Astrologian. This tells you all you need to know about her credentials. ^^

No wonder she is dying again and again on Astro, she's charging in to Macrocosmos. Yikes.

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This absolutely does not change the fact that you're supposed to push to hit as many people as possible. lol And I'm a man.

what a troll