PvP Machinist is better than PvE Machinist

1. There's no unnecessary 1 2 3 combo nor any ridiculous nonsensical acrobatics and flashy effects.

2. Almost every skill and ability connects and builds up one another.

3. Bishop Turret is there to help with crowd control. Queen Automata is practically useless in that situation.

4. It has a sniper rifle that works like an actual sniper rifle and isn't a weird one handed gun aesthetic.

5. The charge gun attack feels so satisfying to use. Again no needless 1 2 3 combo or useless flashy acrobatics and effects.

6. Wildfire does AoE damage.

No offense but you can always play a moba yknow if pressing a few buttons in a rotation is too complicated

FFXIV's rotations are already easy enough, if pressing more than 5 buttons is too hard then I'm not sure what to tell you

Putting the close-range Bioblaster in the middle of the long-range PVP rotation is still a terrible design choice.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Putting the close-range Bioblaster in the middle of the long-range PVP rotation is still a terrible design choice.

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Its sort of why outside of mob packs flamethrower is just worthless...I wish it was like the turret where you can place it and it does aoe fire in bursts allowing you to move again. There is a lot of machinists toolset that just feels rubbish and I personally think it needs a rework...also yeah where is my sniper in PVE :P

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Originally Posted by SophiaDL

No offense but you can always play a moba yknow if pressing a few buttons in a rotation is too complicated

FFXIV's rotations are already easy enough, if pressing more than 5 buttons is too hard then I'm not sure what to tell you

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Looks to me like the argument is about the impact of each ability, not how the PvE rotation is "too hard."

I'm in the same boat tbh. I'd rather push 10 fun buttons than 32 wet noodle hits.

RDM, BLM, BRD, SGE, mayhap even SCH have more fun PvP gameplay than PvE imo.
Can't speak on many others, as I haven't played all the jobs in either content.

It's funny that the PVP kits are like 1/3rd in quantity compared to PVE and yet PVP is where I get to use my head to think about strategies with my rotation, whereas in PVE what I need is just having muscle memory and good finger dexterity, which is not quite as fun.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

It's funny that the PVP kits are like 1/3rd in quantity compared to PVE and yet PVP is where I get to use my head to think about strategies with my rotation, whereas in PVE what I need is just having muscle memory and good finger dexterity, which is not quite as fun.

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That's because one of them is how RPGs are meant to be played and the other is how you play a memory game. Hence why people say fights are so scripted that you can use spreadsheets for when to use your skills.

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Originally Posted by SophiaDL

No offense but you can always play a moba yknow if pressing a few buttons in a rotation is too complicated

FFXIV's rotations are already easy enough, if pressing more than 5 buttons is too hard then I'm not sure what to tell you

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No. You need to STOP bullying other people with your rhetoric. FF14's rotations are actually some of the most complex rotations in the genre. Let's take a look at most modern MOBAs. League of Legends has ONLY FIVE main buttons.

FFXIV's rotations may indeed appear manageable to some seasoned players, but they are, in fact, incredibly intricate and require precise timing, awareness, and coordination. This complexity is what attracts many players to the game in the first place.

To comprehend the complexity of FFXIV's rotations, we must first acknowledge the game's unique appeal. FFXIV boasts a vibrant, living world with a rich narrative that draws players in. It combines elements of traditional MMORPGs with a Final Fantasy twist, creating an environment where players can immerse themselves in a compelling story while tackling challenging encounters

At first glance, FFXIV's rotations might appear manageable. Each job typically has a set sequence of abilities to optimize damage output or utility, but this simplicity belies the true depth of the system. Here's why:

Abilities and Traits: Each job has a wide array of abilities and traits that interact with one another. These abilities often have complex effects, and optimizing their usage requires a deep understanding of not only your job but also the encounter you're facing.

Positional Awareness: Many abilities in FFXIV require precise positioning, both for offensive and defensive purposes. This adds an extra layer of complexity as players must be aware of their surroundings and the mechanics of the fight.

Resource Management: Managing resources like MP, TP, or unique job-specific resources can be challenging. Different situations may demand different resource allocation, adding depth to the decision-making process.

Cooldown Management: Cooldowns and timers play a crucial role in FFXIV rotations. Knowing when to use them optimally can significantly impact your performance.

Adaptation: Unlike MOBAs, where each match follows a similar structure, FFXIV encounters can vary greatly. Players must adapt their rotations to suit the fight's mechanics, which can change the optimal rotation from encounter to encounter.

Now, let's address the comparison between FFXIV and MOBAs, specifically League of Legends. MOBAs, as a genre, offer their unique challenges. In League of Legends, players control a champion with a limited set of abilities, usually consisting of four active skills and a passive. This design focuses on quick decision-making, map control, and teamwork.

The limited number of buttons in MOBAs indeed simplifies the control scheme, but this simplicity serves a different purpose. MOBAs prioritize strategic depth, team coordination, and fast-paced action over the intricate rotations found in MMORPGs like FFXIV. In contrast, FFXIV aims for a different gaming experience, emphasizing storytelling, character progression, and a slower, more methodical approach to combat.

Complex rotations in FFXIV are not meant to deter players but rather to engage and challenge them. Many players are drawn to the game because of this complexity, as it offers a sense of accomplishment and progression. The journey from being a novice player struggling with rotations to mastering them is a rewarding one.

Furthermore, the complexity of FFXIV's rotations fosters a sense of community. Players often come together to discuss strategies, share tips, and create guides, enhancing the social aspect of the game.

The complexity of FFXIV's rotations is a vital component of the game's appeal. While MOBAs like League of Legends provide a different gaming experience with simpler control schemes, FFXIV's rotations offer depth, challenge, and a sense of achievement. It's important not to dismiss the intricate nature of FFXIV's gameplay as mere button-mashing; rather, it's a testament to the game's commitment to providing a rich and rewarding MMORPG experience.

PvP is just fun af. Period.

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Originally Posted by SophiaDL

No offense but you can always play a moba yknow if pressing a few buttons in a rotation is too complicated

FFXIV's rotations are already easy enough, if pressing more than 5 buttons is too hard then I'm not sure what to tell you

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123 is soooooo complex yes indeed.

PvP has few buttons and a much deeper gameplay than pve for most jobs (of course it's tailored for pvp specifically but still). Let's not talk about healers.

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Originally Posted by Threneras

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My dude you are trying too hard.

Every job in PVP is more fun than actual PVE.

All the jobs have an unique LB rather than use it against a 1% hp boss fight

eh lets be honest most jobs preform better in PVP than non pvp with the expectation of black mage lol Like ninja is amazing in PVP and shuriken actually is useful but in pve its a waste to use realistically ur better off using raton for single target (since the jin ten chi all share cd) that needs to be removed they shouldn't all go on cd after you use a move unless it uses all 3


would be fine if skill speed actually gave noticeable effects upon reaching it but every level every new piece of gear your recast are basically the same regardless which makes the point of skill speed irrelevant.

Yo, I love how you can provide support with your turret in PVP to your party or even just yourself if you have to step up cuz everyone else is recovering or on the back foot.

It wouldn't work too well in pve though because you're always facing the same raid wide in x seconds and your parties next buff phase in y seconds, and since your party won't die to the boss in x seconds because everyone's gear is too good or the boss is designed to be easy, you save it for y seconds so you can kill him quicker.

It would require shakeups to the PVE battle content for the job actions to be more interesting; they're mostly just complex from button amounts and use orders BECAUSE they need something to keep you occupied until the next x seconds happens.

The basic shot rules, though. I think bowmage or original MCH might have stuck around if their filler felt as powerful to use.

And I love that MCH has multiple tools that let it get into melee for a bit given that it's forced to, keeps it distinct from which is the only job that got to truly remain at range in PvP at all times (now nerfed because of silent Nocturne's efficacy at original full range). Its melee options are very powerful if used well, too.

I know the PVE team can do a better job because the jobs have been more fun and flavorful in the past. I hope they take cues from PvP where they can.

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Originally Posted by CStrife912

Its sort of why outside of mob packs flamethrower is just worthless...I wish it was like the turret where you can place it and it does aoe fire in bursts allowing you to move again. There is a lot of machinists toolset that just feels rubbish and I personally think it needs a rework...also yeah where is my sniper in PVE :P

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My issue with Bioblaster is that it has a 12 yard range, in a combo where the skills both before (Drill) and after (Air Anchor and Chain Saw) are 25 yards. It's a clunky and obnoxious setup. Take Bioblaster out of the combo, make it a solo skill so that its Heavy effect can be used as an escape tool to get away from melee, and it'd improve the flow of the kit.