Quechua/Inca influence in Dawntrail lore

Hey, after watching the latest lorelines video about Quechua influencing Dawntrail, I took a look into Inka history and mythology to see if there were any parallells.
Here's what I found.

Background:

In the history of the Inka empire, the Andean people in the andean region and Inka shared many beliefs in huaca (or wak'a ;) blitzball confirmed?) ideology.
The pre-empire Inka had trouble gaining land control in their constant fights and only peace was made when they materialized their huacas into a state-controlled system that was common throughout the empire. Huaca's were sacred and believed to be a manifestation of both natural and supernatural worlds, or that they held some chthonic power believed to have shaped some aspects of the people living there.
Huaca's could be anything from springs, stones, hills and mountains, temples, caves, roads, or trees.

Different huaca's were worshipped by different rituals depending on the huaca. By worshipping the huaca's they believed they were able to communicate with the supernatural.

Because the huaca's were also ordered along lines called ceque lines in a system called the ceque system (siq'i, seqe), in which lines originated outwards from Qorikancha (meaning the golden temple).
The huaca's that were lined were divided into four sections representing the seasons and served as their means of measuring time (believed to be based on the phases of the moon).
The four major sections of the ceque lines corresponded to four provinces of the Tawantinsuyu Empire, in which the four provinces were also colored one of the four colors orange, yellow, green and red.

As the huaca's were a way for them to communicate with the supernatural, and that the cosmos was also a part of it, it is theorized that they were used in rituals to worship astrological events and that the specific locations of the huaca's were used for astrological observations.

It is also theorized that the total number of huaca's signify the number of days in order to complete 12 full cycles of the moon (twelve wonders? :rolleyes:).

Theory:

now, in the trailer, you can see something that looks like a compass in Y'shtola's book and on Thancred's map. I think that is a representation of the ceque system, where the four outer squares represents the four seasons and the diamond in the middle the golden city. Thancred has however checked ✓ three places on the map that match the positions of the squares in the emblem, revealing that they assume they are huaca's or locations, and marked what they assume to be Qorikancha in the center with X.

It might be that the outer squares are seasons and the capitol of four peoples, or that you can observe special astrological events at these four places.

I really hope that the huaca's will be connected with ffxiv's astrology and perhaps hold significance to the twelve constellations.

Also other things I found that I won't write more about here:
In Inca history "The war of succession"/"The civil war"/"War between the two brothers" is pretty significant and is most likely the source of inspiration to the succession plot in Dawntrail. So lots to read there.

The Spanish conquest that ended the Inka Empire is most likely the inspiration to Merlwyb and Limsa visiting Tural, if you draw parallells between our world map and ffxiv world map. Though in our world history, the Spanish conquered the Inka, it doesn't seem that Limsa eradicated the Mamool Ja.
Possibly, Limsa being very pirate, they could have maby taken one of the sacred huaca's as loot maby interrupting their rituals and creating hostility.

Also...I don't know how or what Gulool Ja Ja is considered to be. But a mamool ja with two heads, I would suspect is unusual, and make him considered somewhat holy. And having statues of himself shows that he holds himself in very high regards.
I also think the statues bears resemblance to Inka's Creator god Viracocha, where they both dual wields weapons.

If Gulool Ja Ja considers himself to be a decendant of "The Creator" in Inka mythology, there is a possibility that he is possessed by Ultima with the desire to be the creator.

Pictures:

Close up of emblem representing the ceque system with four sections. Possibly one huaca in each section and golden city in center. And depiction of statue of Gulool Ja Ja:

https://i.imgur.com/aIJmUyt.jpg

Ceque lines as depicted in a museum with golden city in middle, divided into four provinces:

https://i.imgur.com/i8zbcXB.jpg

Thancred with map marked with huaca's aligned with the emblem representing the ceque system:

https://i.imgur.com/QBYTC69.jpg

Depiction of Viracocha statue:

https://i.imgur.com/YcoJcGn.jpg

Ultima eyes on second head of Gulool Ja Ja?

https://i.imgur.com/xxTclor.jpg

Eyes in background of P12S phase 2 arena:

https://i.imgur.com/I9fYvtd.jpg

Ultima eyes on Shadowkeeper:

https://i.imgur.com/PfjYkQa.jpg

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Originally Posted by Tetsujin13

Sorry, but not able to upload images without using lots of time.

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Here's the trick that saves you a lot of time: Always put a link that ends on the file type so https://somethingsomething.png for example.

If you upload on imgur for example, don't link to that image but instead right klick open graphic in new tab, then ctrl+c that link.

Thx! Got it to work.

I do feel like having the "Ultima" dimension start encroaching upon the Source in further capacity could be an interesting plot hook going forward, especially if it opens the way for a new persistent threat to come into the picture.

I think you're far to attached to 'Now It's Ultima Time' based on at-best-tenuous loosely-connected details (as I mentioned last time you tried to connect it, you have no evidence auracite is involved in the Shadowkeeper but pin a lot on the assertion that it is), and it's actually hurting your case here, because I'm genuinely interested in Incan influence in Dawntrail's aesthetic, but that's not really what you're interested in.

I'm surprised nobody mention the Cusco-Urqopacha parallel. A former capital city in the mountains that was abandoned by the governing body and left in ruins. Also the Vinicunca (Rainbow Mountains) inspired mountains in the concept art. On top of that, the word /pacha/ in quechua means land or earth.

I'm also pretty sure that they are drawing from the big three in Mesoamérica dependent on region. For example, the statue of the Mamool Ja looks to be more in a Mayan style than Incan. Though I'm all for more Inca/Perú influence! (Pelupelu being alpaca riders from the mountains, perfect!)

I'm not convinced that Ultima has any place at all here. I genuinely think they've done all they can with it, especially after Pande closed the book on the last great mystery of it.

I am interested in the inca influence on Dawntrail lore, especially how inca mythology and religion, especially since their understanding of the natural and supernatural world including the cosmos.

The Ultima theory is more a sidetrail because of the eyes.

But I also think that it would be a good underlying plot point for future expansions.

How the shadowkeeper could be connected to ultima I explained in another post.

I think it's too early to bring out the "now it's Ultima time", I agree. I think it should be brought up again when they divulge on the conspicuouss lack of conflict in ancient history, and perhaps when they reveal the other Ascians in 8.x or 9.x

What exactly has Shadowkeeper got to do with Ultima?

Also a two-headed Mamool Ja isn't new. There was Molaa Ja Ja, the final boss of Wanderer's Palace (Hard)

Gulool Ja Ja is also a character in XI as well, where the left head is the brute, and the right head the thinker.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

What exactly has Shadowkeeper got to do with Ultima?

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He(?) is convinced the similarities between the eye patterns on the Shadowkeeper and in the background of P12 imply a connection to Ultima, since auracite features heavily in the background to Pandaemonium's story and all auracite is derived from Ultima (apparently).

Only that the eyes are suspiciously present everywhere.
But the Shadowkeeper is conjured by Mitron using Eden, so maby something there.

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Originally Posted by Tetsujin13

Only that the eyes are suspiciously present everywhere.
But the Shadowkeeper is conjured by Mitron using Eden, so maby something there.

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And I can see one, but it sure isn't 'auracite'. Remember, the Shadowkeeper was manifested by an Ascian (and one who seemed particularly into the whole 'bring back the Ancient world' thing), and Athena is an Ancient. If this is a thing, it's more likely an Ancient thing than it is an auracite thing.

Or maybe they're just very generic eyes. I don't look at that eye design and see anything especially unique; that's approximately how human eyes (and a lot of other species' eyes) are shaped when you remove a lot of detail. It's how I'd draw an eye if you pressed me for one. Must a simplistic eye design be attached to anything larger, can't it just be an eye?

Hell, one of your pieces of evidence is Mamool Jan attire; Mamool Ja have a lot of diversity in eye shapes from their sub-species, but the sub-species Galool Ja Ja's from certainly seem to have that shape, especially when you account for a difference you completely neglected: that the pupils (which may in fact be the actual eye when looking at Mamool Ja eyes) on that armguard are way larger than the eye motif in Athena's bacxkground.

And that's all without getting into the fact that P12S is fake nonsense in-universe, Athena canonically didn't do that phase change.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

And I can see one, but it sure isn't 'auracite'. Remember, the Shadowkeeper was manifested by an Ascian (and one who seemed particularly into the whole 'bring back the Ancient world' thing), and Athena is an Ancient. If this is a thing, it's more likely an Ancient thing than it is an auracite thing.

Or maybe they're just very generic eyes. I don't look at that eye design and see anything especially unique; that's approximately how human eyes (and a lot of other species' eyes) are shaped when you remove a lot of detail. It's how I'd draw an eye if you pressed me for one. Must a simplistic eye design be attached to anything larger, can't it just be an eye?

Hell, one of your pieces of evidence is Mamool Jan attire; Mamool Ja have a lot of diversity in eye shapes from their sub-species, but the sub-species Galool Ja Ja's from certainly seem to have that shape, especially when you account for a difference you completely neglected: that the pupils (which may in fact be the actual eye when looking at Mamool Ja eyes) on that armguard are way larger than the eye motif in Athena's bacxkground.

And that's all without getting into the fact that P12S is fake nonsense in-universe, Athena canonically didn't do that phase change.

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Well, thank you for your feedback. Seems you have a lot of strong opinions, and seem to hold a grudge.

The point of this thread was inca influence in Dawntrail lore. I think that's so much more interesting. So please don't make this about your justice.

You challenged me and what I meant by bringing the Ultima reference up, but I won't indulge you on that anymore.

The emblem/symbol found in Y'shtola's book and on Thancred's map is really interesting, because it's similar to the Inca ceque system in the way they are applying it to the map and try to find the city of gold.

Really hoping we get more context to how huaca's are connected to the lore and what significance they hold.

Personally, at this point I don't see a lot of evidence hinting at the inclusion of huaca or the ceques but we'll see.

I'm just excited because it seems that each region we're going to has some influence from a separate part of Latin America. There's a lot they can explore.

I'm mostly curious if the map we see as is is what we're exploring or if perhaps the clouded areas will be uncovered later, because I have a hard time imagining them fitting six distinct zones into just the small portion that's revealed.

It's interesting because the uncovered area of Yok Tural is roughly equal to Aldenard, and we had more than two expansions worth of zones in Eorzea, but it comes down to their design philosophy choices of how much of the map do they convert into a single overworld zone. I doubt that Yak T'el will encompass all of the "rainforest" region that has two very large river systems and that suspiciously uniform sideways omega plateau with cenotes. If I were to guess at additional zone maps staying within southern continent and knowing that the world map is too zoomed out for many features, I'd guess a map north or south of Yak T'el that has some dense rainforest sections for visual continuity but has a river as the central feature instead of cenotes and a zone inspired by the pampas grasslands of southern Brazil, eastern Argentina, and neighboring countries. I don't think we'll get a region inspired by the Atacama Desert because of the abundance of desert zones already, though with each new whale fossil discovery it just reminds me of how much I'd love if this was a proper FFX inspired expansion with another Sin-inspired trial boss that isn't Bismark and that we'd fight 'totally not Sin or Bismark' in a coastal desert region south of 'totally not Peru'. The suspicious northern crack screams 6th zone to me- but I'd also love if a cenote leads into the 6th zone and it's inspired by the Afterlife.

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Originally Posted by Denishia

It's interesting because the uncovered area of Yok Tural is roughly equal to Aldenard, and we had more than two expansions worth of zones in Eorzea, but it comes down to their design philosophy choices of how much of the map do they convert into a single overworld zone. I doubt that Yak T'el will encompass all of the "rainforest" region that has two very large river systems and that suspiciously uniform sideways omega plateau with cenotes. If I were to guess at additional zone maps staying within southern continent and knowing that the world map is too zoomed out for many features, I'd guess a map north or south of Yak T'el that has some dense rainforest sections for visual continuity but has a river as the central feature instead of cenotes and a zone inspired by the pampas grasslands of southern Brazil, eastern Argentina, and neighboring countries. I don't think we'll get a region inspired by the Atacama Desert because of the abundance of desert zones already, though with each new whale fossil discovery it just reminds me of how much I'd love if this was a proper FFX inspired expansion with another Sin-inspired trial boss that isn't Bismark and that we'd fight 'totally not Sin or Bismark' in a coastal desert region south of 'totally not Peru'. The suspicious northern crack screams 6th zone to me- but I'd also love if a cenote leads into the 6th zone and it's inspired by the Afterlife.

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There's definitely an interesting little clash where Tural is clearly borrowing a lot from Central America... and also from the aesthetics of FFIX and X, which were focused on South-East Asia and Oceania. Those aren't grossly incompatible as far as aesthetics go, especially if we're sticking to coastal areas and rainforests, but it does mean you're gonna start bumping into dead ends or carving false paths if you only look at one of those cultures.

(Incidentally, my guess on the final zone of Dawntrail is 'basically Memoria, but with enough of a unique spin that it doesn't just feel like FFIX Memoria', like how ShB Amaurot was basically Zanarkand.)

Personally, I'm really excited for the Latin America influence to show up even more. And, if we're being honest, AESTHETICALLY it shouldn't be too hard to kind of shift the SEA look of FFX to LatAm. Honestly, aside from Bevelle and the Yevonite temple, I didn't see anything that screams "this can only be Asia". In fact, young me actually assumed that a chunk of it was in LatAm in some way. So, if they shift the Temple design to be more mesoamerican then voila, it fits haha.

This isn't to say I'm opposed to the SEA influence, just noting that it works as LatAm too.

Naturally- just as by virtue of my location I’m far more familiar with Aztec than Mayan, and the Mesoamerican inspirations are Mayan. I do hope for if there’s FFX inspirations it pulls the Cloister of Trials, especially Bevelle, as an alternative to Allagan ruins. And there’s always that twinge of regretful disappointment because I loved Zanarkand and yet found Amaurot only interesting and decent as a setting when it was on fire as a dungeon.

Probably the other mental blinder to the SEA influence of Tural is that we haven’t gone to Nangxia - but you’re right. And this further convinced me that Southern Othard of Dalmascia and Nangxia has been regulated to side quest only. The MSQ used Radz-at-Han as the convenient off-screen location to shove side characters when they needed to be temporarily shelved from the MSQ, so I feel that there will always need to be populated map areas that we never go to. Corvos seems to be the new Thavnair, but like Thavnair I think we’ll eventually go there. I have no gut feeling of the same hope for Nangxia and all the regions bordering Dalmasca.

There’s a lot of green on that map of Yok Tural, and I don’t think all of it is Yak T’el’s jungle. Grassland surely. Another Ruby Sea-like coastal map is my dream but I’m not expecting it.

That deep ocean rift is my new obsession and the symmetry of the central mountainous feature. It’s a fantasy game, so there’s some ancient super weapon shenanigans afoot. I just have to keep my FFX tin foil packed and not scream Vegnangun.

My impressions looking at the map is that Tural is a blend of cultures and geographical features from the Americas scattered around just like how Doma seemed to blend China and Japan. Tacos and Mesoamerican architecture scream Mexico, but the whole plot of finding a lost city of gold is purely South American (unless you're Dreamworks Animation). Then there's the North American-inspired Whalaqee who may or may not show up somewhere.

Tuliyollal looks Meso-American. Yak T'el looks like it could be anywhere from Mexico to Central America, to the Amazon but it has cenotes like the Yucatan does. Urqopacha looks and sounds very obviously Incan/Andean complete with alpacas but the people there make mezcal.

Looking at the map, I'm fairly sure the plateau mountains will be tepui, the famous flat-topped mountains of Venezuela, but I'm not sure if they will be their own zone, a dungeon, or part of one of the other places we already know about.


My current theory is that only the 2 zones that have so far been revealed to us are visible on the recent map and that the different-style cloud cover on the map shows off regions that will be shown in future fan fests.

Below Yok Tural under scattered clouds could be a Patagonian pampas-type zone. And then there's Meracydia which has the same loose cloud cover and could hold at least 2 other zones. That would bring us to 5 and the 6th zone is usually a wacky, secret one except for Stormblood.

But my theory is based on the clouds on the map not being as dense as those over North Tural or Ilsabard so I feel like it's still a bit "corkboard and string" levels of theory-crafting.


I'd like variation of biomes so that it doesn't feel like we're in the same desert, jungle, mountains, or snow-blasted tundra every time one of those comes up and that all zones are visually distinct. But I'm not sure if there's anything that hasn't been done in FFXIV yet.

Poor Cabeza de Vaca, your search for the gold-rich city in North America just didn't get the pop culture impact. (Okay, sarcastic here, but I would be tickled pink if there's a small island labeled Ill-Fate or Island of Doom on one of the maps).

Nothing so far looks like the Sierra Nevada highlands or the deserts and coastal plains of northern and central Mexico to which I'm more familiar with (I would love for a large almost completely flat grassland map with dotted thornscrub but I have a feeling I'd be the only one not calling it boring) - it's all Yucatan and south. But that does mean we should get a tropical savannah/pampas though with the emphasis on mist for Yak T'el I have a feeling the cloud rainforests were its inspiration, which still leaves a purely Amazonian-inspired jungle/river zone. So there's two more options to make another zone or two without leaving what have been uncovered.

I would love it they kept a general centralized consistency of location and not have wildly different themes for every zone but I'm expecting a disappointment come October when Meracydia will be revealed as part of DT.

For visually diversity, I strongly bet we're getting poui/ipe trees in a zone, though hopefully it won't be just Lakeland But Yellow.

Sadly Smileton has already used the giant head dungeon boss, but maybe that is our guarantee for some Olmec-inspired giant head mobs.

I don't know if I pointed it out well enough in the initial post. But the three locations on Thancred's map is lined up according to the four squares inside the symbol he had copied into the map, which you can see a close up of in Y'shtolas book. While the X is assumed to be the city of gold.

Considering that the ceque system in inca history divided all the sacred huaca's into four provinces and were systemized and ultimately made peace among the different tribes and created the inca empire. I feel it holds significance.

Inca cosmology was also advanced, as they were able to predict equinoxes etc. Their understanding was based around the orientation of the milky way, and they thought of the constellations and stars as a celestial river that the earth flowed on.

Inca myth does not disappoint.

I'd say I want a Legends of the Hidden Temple reference, but we already got one of those back in Shadowbringers.

Interested to explore Native South American culture, even if it's through a fantasy filter. Probably one of the least studied among laypeople.

Unfortunately, my own knowledge in descending order is Aztec -> Maya -> Inca, and even then I need sources at hand to help with recall.

I know we're probably too far south for that, but since we're potentially dealing with a kitchen sink situation, is there a possibility of discovering a doomsday calendar as well? It'd be a good way to establish a possible second Endsinger-tier threat without needing to start laying any specific groundwork.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

I'd say I want a Legends of the Hidden Temple reference, but we already got one of those back in Shadowbringers.

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I needed to search, but then a lot came flooding back.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

I know we're probably too far south for that, but since we're potentially dealing with a kitchen sink situation, is there a possibility of discovering a doomsday calendar as well? It'd be a good way to establish a possible second Endsinger-tier threat without needing to start laying any specific groundwork.

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I feel like 'doomsday calendar' has run its course out in several ways. Like, not only have we gone past the 'long-standing impending apocalypse' part of the setting (both of them!), but by the time Dawntrail launches we'll be twelve years out from the point the Mayan long count calendar ending anyway, so that subject's kinda run cold.

Also, the notion of the 'doomsday calendar' was already pretty off-base as a concept; it's not that the Mayans actually thought the world was going to end at that point, that was just... where their calendar drew the line and restarted. It was hardly the first time it happened for them, or sign of anything of great note. It'd be like looking at our calendar and assuming we thought the world would end after December 31st. I almost want to call it offensively wrong, but I don't want to speak for a demographic that I'm not even 100% sure exists, I don't know where the descendants of Mayans are or how they feel about the whole thing!

The "Mayan Doomsday" calendar stuff is obnoxiously wrong and thankfully mostly forgotten in pop culture. As for the various Mayan groups- there's more than a couple dozen languages/tribes/descendant groups in Southern Mexico and the neighboring countries like Guatemala and are still the majority in the Yucatan irrc - it's one of the complications with the refugee crisis because many don't speak Spanish and thus need two layers of translation for the advocacy. Again, not a Tejano native, just lived several years now decently close to Mexico and the state I'm familiar with is Tamaulipas, which was too far north to have been even part of the Aztec Empire. We did Cabeza de Vaca stranded here for months on his failed expedition to search for a city of gold, but those weren't the myths and pop culture versions of El Dorado with the South American (and later MesoAmerican) setting that inspired movies and anime and theme parks.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Also, the notion of the 'doomsday calendar' was already pretty off-base as a concept; it's not that the Mayans actually thought the world was going to end at that point, that was just... where their calendar drew the line and restarted. It was hardly the first time it happened for them, or sign of anything of great note. It'd be like looking at our calendar and assuming we thought the world would end after December 31st. I almost want to call it offensively wrong, but I don't want to speak for a demographic that I'm not even 100% sure exists, I don't know where the descendants of Mayans are or how they feel about the whole thing!

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Okay, sorry. I mean, yeah. I know that already. It's very common knowledge at this point. Perhaps I should have included a gigantic footnote, but it felt kind of unnecessary when we're also talking about El Dorado, and that was basically made up by the conquistadores.


And besides, recognizing that the people you've just subjugated have an accurate calendar going out 500 years in advance and then pausing at the realization that it just stops (for very ordinary and practical reasons, as it happens) isn't really a "dur hur ignorant savages" moment, at least by my reckoning.

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Originally Posted by Denishia

The "Mayan Doomsday" calendar stuff is obnoxiously wrong and thankfully mostly forgotten in pop culture. As for the various Mayan groups- there's more than a couple dozen languages/tribes/descendant groups in Southern Mexico and the neighboring countries like Guatemala and are still the majority in the Yucatan irrc

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You'd be correct! I'm saddened to say even we have some lingering racism against them as, (and I don't want to get too personal) I visited a few times, once for a cousin's wedding, and was... a bit offended that the "Mayan ceremony" she had was officiated by a white European woman (an anthropologist, at least, but still, jeez), and both her and my aunt refered to the natives as "mayitas" (little Mayans, which is both a term of endearment but also sounds kind of infantilizing). México is at an interesting point because the Northern half is probably closer to the US as far as our native tribes are concerned, since they were generally nomadic tribes because... deserts, while the Southern portion has a rich diversity of sedentary cultures, starting with the Mexica having the architectural know-how to settle and thrive in swampland.

I reiterate that, with the map we have so far, I don't think Yok'Tural englobes the entirety of South America (and as I keep saying, México's part of NORTH America) but likely involves Mesoamérica and grabs Perú and probably parts of the Amazon, which still leaves Argentina and Chile for another expansion or maybe exploratory content (and by the gods, the vistas in Argentina are amazing). Whether that means Northern México will be ignored in favor of USA native tribes... I don't want to say but... sigh, likely...

Of course, also need to reiterate that XIV is a game, inspired by some real life culture but also heavily by fantasy tropes, it won't be 1:1 to the cultures it's inspired by and that's ok (I still raise an eyebrow at G'raha eating a flour tortilla taco, we didn't really have WHEAT).

Yep- and that Tululiyoll have some strong SEA influences and it's fantasy and one with primarily Japanese writers at that (and the three things that keep circulating in my head are how Tokyo Disney changed the Indiana Jones ride from themepark fantasy Asia to Central America to be more exotically appealing to the audience, old series The Mysterious Cities of Gold, and that One Piece also used the El Dorado tropes. Dawntrail and One Piece has already been joked about with the teaser trailer and it will only increase.)

Lol yes that wheat tortilla! I confess as a certified gringo I'm not fond of most Tex Mex or Northern Mexican dishes and don't have a familiarity with the central, southern, or even west coast cuisine (a special hatred of Hatch chilies) - but I already have a shortlist of favorite dishes I want included in the 100 CUL expert recipes, and if we don't get sopapillas, churros, and at least two different types of tamales (ideally the version I'm familiar with and then one of the recipes versions that uses plantain leaves) I will riot.

The game has done so many desert biomes already and peppered them with the Americas' cactus, so I have this sinking feeling that there won't be a Tural equivalent to the Chihuahuan and Sonoran Deserts unless the curve ball for the City of Gold is using the ancient pueblos for some fancy gold SF/Fantasy version of the cliff side metropolis. I still think the emphasis on the updated grass engine overall means that we will get a mostly pampas/grassland zone map for the 3rd or 4th zone, so we will get 'fantasy Argentina'. And if we don't, then a zone in North Tural, be it a later expansion or exploratory zone will give us the Great Plains. Something for me to shrug and go "close enough".

Still holding out to my theory that our endgame hub will be at least partially inspired by Tenochtilan in that wherever it is will be very high up in the mountains instead of coastal and have canals, a lake, and floating gardens bisecting it. The floating gardens and boats could also be blended with the Vietnamese floating markets. Though I also think whatever "Secret City of Gold" we find won't be the hub but the 5th or 6th map.

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Originally Posted by Denishia

Lol yes that wheat tortilla! I confess as a certified gringo I'm not fond of most Tex Mex or Northern Mexican dishes and don't have a familiarity with the central, southern, or even west coast cuisine (a special hatred of Hatch chilies) - but I already have a shortlist of favorite dishes I want included in the 100 CUL expert recipes, and if we don't get sopapillas, churros, and at least two different types of tamales (ideally the version I'm familiar with and then one of the recipes versions that uses plantain leaves) I will riot.

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As a Mission Street kid, I will accept whatever stain on my soul is left by the lack of proper cultural sensitivity, all I ask for is a burrito. Or a few burritos. Churros are from mainland Spain, though. (Or even older, the history is surprisingly complicated.)

My college years were spent eating out at local Mexican restaurants to the point that cheese enchiladas still turn my stomach because I ate it so often- so I'm perversely hoping that dish will be the 8.x raid food or better yet the DoL/H expert dish to re-create my misery.

The fallen Urqopaca empire interests me so much, but I have no idea if it will turn out to be all that important to Dawntrail. For every Allag we have plenty of Ronkas and Beladiah/Sil'diah that are only relevant for a single zone flavor and one or two dungeons max - and then there's poor Voeburt without even a proper dungeon.

There is already a New World Burrito housing item that made my soul die a little. I can't technically complain since pre-hispanic gastronomy was wildly different than the fusion that happened during the colonia, so I'll just have to bear it since historical accuracy for food items went out the window way back in ARR, if not all the way back in 1.0. (Although, seriously, look up nixtamalization and the history of pozole, in fact about nixtamalization there's an entire story about bringing corn to Europe without the proper techniques the natives used to process it and hilarity -and malnutrition- ensued)

I also hope Urqopacha is more than background flavor, I've mentioned elsewhere that the team is very reticent to let go of Allag but this really is the best time to serve divorce papers and start collecting some Pachan Tomeliths of Cosmology.

...what? can't people oceans apart come up with similar ideas? it's happened before!

The lack of nixtamalization leaving to pellagra was something that happened due to poor nutrition and ignorance about proper corn/maize processing in the US- I want to say Southeast- and didn't happen in Europe as much, but I forget what dietary difference alleviated the cases. And I've yet to see a kitchen sink fantasy setting that does its dull diligence about the pre-Colombian Food Exchange. That teosinte was originally cultivated for alcohol and not as a cereal grain does amuse me for some reason, though I also find it interesting that the studies of Neolithic Mesoamerica suggest that the teosinte that was domesticated to become corn did have larger kernels that the wild surviving variant (of course not anything like the corn we have today).

Surely the only part of Allag that they haven't milked to death is to develop more their rivals and enemies, as they did a little bit with Bozja. More Meracydia and the rebels that were working to topple the empire. I don't want there to be nothing more in the MSQ involving Allagans because I want to go to Meracydia - but that and Corvos is the only place I want to see Allagan ruins and enemy models. And since Alliance Roulette dropped me in Syrcus Tower again, I saw the blue mamool ja mobs but I think those can exist without requiring that Allag had also been to and conquered part of Tural. XIV is thankfully realistic in having long migrations and small groups traveling all over the place.

But we need a new Ancient Empire with ruins to explore, and a new empire faction to replace the Garleans and Ascians, and Tural is a mostly blank slate to start adding.

And I would LOVE Pachan Tomeliths XD

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I'm fairly sure the plateau mountains will be tepui, the famous flat-topped mountains of Venezuela, but I'm not sure if they will be their own zone, a dungeon, or part of one of the other places we already know about.

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Just wanted to point out that Tepui is associated with both Venezuela and Guyana. The Guyana inclusion would be particularly relevant as Guyana was one of the major places considered to be the home of El Dorado, or rather Manoa on the shores of Lake Parime (according to the writings of Sir Walter Raleigh during his search for the fabled city). For this reason, my assumption is that the golden city might be somewhere in that region.

According to one of the lores regarding the golden city, it was supposedly located on the shores of Lake Parime. Some historians believe that Lake Parime wasn't an actual lake and was rather just the savannah regions of Guyana inundated during the rainy periods. So we could get a savannah-type zone. This would of course depend on which of the El Dorado lores they intend to follow for FFXIV's version.

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Originally Posted by Denishia

Yep- and that Tululiyoll have some strong SEA influences and it's fantasy and one with primarily Japanese writers at that (and the three things that keep circulating in my head are how Tokyo Disney changed the Indiana Jones ride from themepark fantasy Asia to Central America to be more exotically appealing to the audience, old series The Mysterious Cities of Gold, and that One Piece also used the El Dorado tropes. Dawntrail and One Piece has already been joked about with the teaser trailer and it will only increase.)

Lol yes that wheat tortilla! I confess as a certified gringo I'm not fond of most Tex Mex or Northern Mexican dishes and don't have a familiarity with the central, southern, or even west coast cuisine (a special hatred of Hatch chilies) - but I already have a shortlist of favorite dishes I want included in the 100 CUL expert recipes, and if we don't get sopapillas, churros, and at least two different types of tamales (ideally the version I'm familiar with and then one of the recipes versions that uses plantain leaves) I will riot.

The game has done so many desert biomes already and peppered them with the Americas' cactus, so I have this sinking feeling that there won't be a Tural equivalent to the Chihuahuan and Sonoran Deserts unless the curve ball for the City of Gold is using the ancient pueblos for some fancy gold SF/Fantasy version of the cliff side metropolis. I still think the emphasis on the updated grass engine overall means that we will get a mostly pampas/grassland zone map for the 3rd or 4th zone, so we will get 'fantasy Argentina'. And if we don't, then a zone in North Tural, be it a later expansion or exploratory zone will give us the Great Plains. Something for me to shrug and go "close enough".

Still holding out to my theory that our endgame hub will be at least partially inspired by Tenochtilan in that wherever it is will be very high up in the mountains instead of coastal and have canals, a lake, and floating gardens bisecting it. The floating gardens and boats could also be blended with the Vietnamese floating markets. Though I also think whatever "Secret City of Gold" we find won't be the hub but the 5th or 6th map.

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I'm holding out hope that my country (Guyana) will inspire the endgame zone. It's the cultural enigma of South America, contains a portion of the Amazon, is the bridge between the Caribbean and SA, and its associations with the search for El Dorado. As such, in-game, it could be a great blend of various aesthetics from various in-game cultures, meaning the devs could go thal's-balls to the wall in terms of what to include.