Would You Be Interested In A Deep Dungeon Game?

I enjoy Palace of the Dead. Reaching floor 200 is one of my goals in the game.

I like the random floor layouts, the unpredictable traps, and the challenge of surviving. That got me wondering.

If Square Enix released a Final Fantasy game about exploring a massive Deep Dungeon with hundreds of floors would people enjoy it?

Pretty sure this kind of idea already exists in the form of a FF spin-off game that is very similar to Pokemon Mystery Dungeon. Never got into it but I remember it existing at some point. No clue if people generally liked it or not.

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

The one that immediately jumps to mind is the Chocobo's Mystery Dungeon series.

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Yep, that's the one.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

If Square Enix released a Final Fantasy game about exploring a massive Deep Dungeon with hundreds of floors would people enjoy it?

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I believe in their many years they've already released numerous games like this. The one that immediately jumps to mind is the Chocobo's Mystery Dungeon series.

So...are we thinking a Rogue Like dungeon crawler with Final Fantasy jobs/lore? I mean it has potential if done right. I don't think it would be for me but I could see it being liked by many people.

Have classes with special abilities, random lay-outs per death and you start over but some aspects can carry over, maybe accumulated Gil can be spent from the last run to purchase boosts and/or passives for all subsequent runs but any unused Gil gets tossed away so it's "Use it or lose it".

I can see it being a decent spin off. Doubt it can ever be a main liner.

Hades has done it 100000000x better, let's not see Square Enix make another failed game.

In concept this would be fun, but only as a concept.

Very quickly you run into it being... Just. Another. Floor. - What I mean by this is many floors, with substance far and few between.

Mystery Dungeon is definitely the type of game you're looking for – there's the chocobo one, several Pokémon versions and I think some others.

Also the .hack// pseudo-MMO series back on PS2, though I'm not sure about the current availability of that. Or Mystery Dungeon for that matter.

As mentioned, the Mystery Dungeon games do this but with more complexity and depth. I'll add Etrian Mystery Dungeon to that list as well. Ultra niche games though, you've very much got to be a dedicated grind enjoyer to work your way through one. Even Pokemon Mystery Dungeon got rather grindy quite quickly.

Personally, as far as FFXIV's implementation goes, I just found there wasn't enough variety in the pieces for me to get interested in it. It always felt like the same limited stuff sprinkled out in a different pattern.

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Originally Posted by TheNight

Hades has done it 100000000x better, let's not see Square Enix make another failed game.

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Imagine paying real life money to complain about a developer in every thread on their forums. Weird.

Anyway, dungeon crawlers do exists, like others have mentioned. That's what deep dungeons are working off of.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Also the .hack// pseudo-MMO series back on PS2, though I'm not sure about the current availability of that.

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The original .hack games I believe have never been ported again, but .hack//G.U., the sequel series, got a remaster a few years ago under the subtitle Last Recode. It's not too challenging though like most dungeon crawler games, but they're still good games nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Mystery Dungeon is definitely the type of game you're looking for – there's the chocobo one, several Pokémon versions and I think some others.

Also the .hack// pseudo-MMO series back on PS2, though I'm not sure about the current availability of that. Or Mystery Dungeon for that matter.

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Thank you for reminding me about .hack. I had 3 of them but never got my hands on part 4.

It should be noted 'Deep Dungeon' actually refers to a series of actual games of that title that Square released in the 80s. It's another fanservice reference to SE's history (and history beyond the FF series).

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Originally Posted by Renalt

So...are we thinking a Rogue Like dungeon crawler with Final Fantasy jobs/lore? I mean it has potential if done right. I don't think it would be for me but I could see it being liked by many people.

Have classes with special abilities, random lay-outs per death and you start over but some aspects can carry over, maybe accumulated Gil can be spent from the last run to purchase boosts and/or passives for all subsequent runs but any unused Gil gets tossed away so it's "Use it or lose it".

I can see it being a decent spin off. Doubt it can ever be a main liner.

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Exactly what I was envisioning.

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Originally Posted by TheNight

Hades has done it 100000000x better, let's not see Square Enix make another failed game.

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I don’t know the Hades you’re referring to. The only Hades I know is the real name of you know who and the Underworld.

I believe you are jumping the gun in condemning my idea of a Square Ennis release as a failed game. It’s not even in development!

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

As mentioned, the Mystery Dungeon games do this but with more complexity and depth. I'll add Etrian Mystery Dungeon to that list as well. Ultra niche games though, you've very much got to be a dedicated grind enjoyer to work your way through one. Even Pokemon Mystery Dungeon got rather grindy quite quickly.

Personally, as far as FFXIV's implementation goes, I just found there wasn't enough variety in the pieces for me to get interested in it. It always felt like the same limited stuff sprinkled out in a different pattern.

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Thanks, I am unfamiliar with Mystery Dungeon games. I’ll look around and see if any are mac OS compatible. It’s interesting you mention the grindiness of playing something like this. It’s definitely an issue which will have to be addressed. Perhaps, having the character return to the surface at times for story and gameplay purposes would help.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

It should be noted 'Deep Dungeon' actually refers to a series of actual games of that title that Square released in the 80s. It's another fanservice reference to SE's history (and history beyond the FF series).

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Oh cool! I played through a couple Wizardry titles which sound very similar to Deep Dungeon.

Reminds me of the game Azure Dreams where you had a tower with atleast 100 floors and it was also a monster collector game as well as a harem game and town builder....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azure_Dreams

I miss that game lol...

I'd be interested if they took a wizardry online route and turned at least one of the deep dungeons or made a deep dungeon of sort that had permadeath (at least meaning you can never enter again). That'd make it more interesting... Pass by an obelisk or something of that sort on each floor that lists the players who died. Casuals might not like it but I'm 100% for it.

A Final Fantasy roguelike? Yeah, I could dig that. Map design would have to be streamlined. You're meant to repeat your runs often. Simulated Universe in Star Rail is quick and to the point. There's way too much walking around in the Deep Dungeons to just translate that directly into a game of its own. It would need some tuning and I think action based combat would be more fun. Keep the team-up with people part of Deep Dungeons and I'd def get it just to play with friends.

If the combat system was more gauntlet and less Diablo/minecraft dungeons I’d be down.

I like rogue-likes, but we have so many complicated ones that I’d really just like to play something as mechanically complicated as like… Mario kart or smash bros.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

If the combat system was more gauntlet and less Diablo/minecraft dungeons I’d be down.

I like rogue-likes, but we have so many complicated ones that I’d really just like to play something as mechanically complicated as like… Mario kart or smash bros.

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Thanks for reminding me of Gauntlet. I have so many games on PS2 in storage that I should really emulate these.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

I enjoy Palace of the Dead. Reaching floor 200 is one of my goals in the game.

I like the random floor layouts, the unpredictable traps, and the challenge of surviving. That got me wondering.

If Square Enix released a Final Fantasy game about exploring a massive Deep Dungeon with hundreds of floors would people enjoy it?

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It's called a dungeon crawler, and it's been around since the first video games, for example personas series with a good dose of story and rpg.

There's no shortage of this type of game.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

Thanks for reminding me of Gauntlet. I have so many games on PS2 in storage that I should really emulate these.

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Red Warrior needs food badly!

I just remembered pretty much what the OP is asking for is actually already in the game (at least a limited version) - a past Rising event added a minigame called 'The Cheap Dungeon' which took the form of a side-on dungeon crawler where you had to fight 'bugs' in the 'system' (as in, bugs in the game, that took the form of Allagan mimics), and there was in-jokes from development team members complaining about their workload and how they'd look at the rest after their lunch break for instance. And it was all put to a fitting chiptune rendition of Order Yet Undeciphered, literally titled Wizardly. ;)

I'm not sure if it's still unlockable by players who didn't do the event, but for those that were playing at the time it's still accessable through the Toy Box in Inn Rooms or via that furnishing in FC housing/personal housing/apartments.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

If Square Enix released a Final Fantasy game about exploring a massive Deep Dungeon with hundreds of floors would people enjoy it?

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What you're looking for is a dungeon Roguelite. There's a lot of variation around what actually constitutes a Roguelite, but they often have elements of procedurally designed dungeons that reset on death/escape, and can give you permanent upgrades that you can carry over to your next run (which is what the aetherpool system does). As was pointed out earlier, you could say that Rogue was to the Mystery Dungeon series of games in Japan as Wizardry/Dungeons and Dragons was to Dragon Quest. Lufia II's Ancient Cave also was from that era, and featured an extra game mode where you could run the 99 floor dungeon with any party from the main game (if you escape back to the entrance, you only could keep items from special blue treasure chests, resetting everything else). I never played Azure Dreams, but I've heard that it feels very similar to Lufia II's Ancient Cave. You could argue that Persona 3's Tartarus is a softer example of this, replacing a hard reset with time constraints on your tower climb (The Reaper would make a great conceptual addition to a Deep Dungeon climb, though).

While there's a community within FFXIV that enjoys Deep Dungeon content, it probably isn't enough to 'extract' that element out to make a standalone game. The genre is fairly saturated nowadays, probably just behind Metroidvania for indie game dev popularity, and you need to do something particularly innovative to succeed. I think an equally useful question is to ask what lessons we could draw from all these other games to improve on the current Deep Dungeon experience?

What I'd personally like to see is something based around Nym. Instead of using a temporary levelling system, perhaps have players collect and spend a temporary resource on every run, like lamp oil, to activate devices, shut off floor debuffs (imagine a floor without any light) and obtain power-ups. Perhaps use something like the blue chest system mentioned earlier for permanent upgrades that can be used on subsequent runs. Add in a Tonberry Stalker to chase you off the level when you take too long. I like EO's introduction of optional boss mobs that provide temporary boosts. Each iteration should add something extra on top of the last.

The problem with deep dungeons is that they become very repetitive, very quickly.
So, no.. Not really.. Maybe if they implemented features from WoW's M+ to shake things up.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

I don’t know the Hades you’re referring to. The only Hades I know is the real name of you know who and the Underworld.

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Okay, since nobody appears to have answered this:

Hades is a roguelite dungeon crawler released in December of 2018. It stars Zagreus, the son of Hades, in his many attempts to escape the underworld. Victory is achieved when you succeed in reaching the surface and defeating Hades himself. Fail at any point and you start back from the beginning on a new run. But the layout of the game world is randomized every time, from the rooms to the enemy placement and even the upgrades and friendly encounters you'll find.

It is a game with nigh infinite replayability, so long as you don't get tired of the core concept itself. To help with that, the characters are almost all decently charming, or serviceable in providing obstacles you'll want to overcome. And even should you manage a successful run of the game, there is still plenty of reason to keep playing.

Also, it's available on Mac OS. Though I think you may need to buy it through Steam or Epic Game Store.

I would rather have a new Chocobo's Mystery Dungeon game... >.>