Is it safe to say that the next FF MMO will be an action game?

Pretty much every FF release since XIV was an action game. We had FFXV, FF7R, Stranger of Paradise and FFXVI (I guess the only exception is FF7 Ever Crisis, the mobile game). It's clear that they want to keep pushing the genre as it has been very successfull, and also knowing that FFXIV is doing pretty well on his own, I don't think they wanna get rid of it so soon nor release an MMO too similar to it. Which is why I think their next MMO will be an action game instead of a tab-target one. Now, knowing how much they evolved in their action games I'm not too concerned about it, but what to change and what to keep from FFXIV? Here's my own perspective on this:

What to keep

- All jobs in one character
This is the best thing about FFXIV and one of the main reasons why I don't play other MMOs. It makes the game a little alt-unfriendly sure, but who cares? Having all jobs in one character is awesome.

- Focus on the social aspect
That's another think about the game that makes me hard to leave. It's what makes FFXIV feel so alive. We have crowded cities, bards, venues, glamours, fashion accessories, adventurer plates. I just wish we have more accessbility options. We wouldn't be able to do what we do with bards/venues without third party tools.

- Level-based skills
Maybe skill trees are alright as long as your "skill currency" is gained by level and you have them all at max level. I just dislike the idea of unlocking skills via quests or shop. Imo the worst part of FFXIV's leveing experience is when I have to quit a dungeon queue and disband a party to enter a solo instance.

- Fast Travel
That's obligatory in every MMO. If you don't think so go play New World.

What to change

- MSQ is optional, content is unlocked through leveling
We all love the MSQ, but why does every single thing in the game need to be attached to the story? Why can't I do Island Sanctuary and Criterion Dungeons before Endwalker? What about raids, exploratory zones, flight, mounts? That's what makes the game so alt-unfriendly.

- Holy Trinity
I don't think Holy Trinity works really well with action games. Since most of the mechanics will be around dodging, timing and positioning, we won't need a tank and a healer every single game. It also makes queues really long.

- No Beginner/Secondary Classes
Yeah I want to play Black Mage right away, I don't want to level a Thaumaturge first. Why the hell is called Thaumaturge anyway? Thaumaturge means saint.

- Auto-loot
You know what auto-loot does? Fills your inventory with crap. You should be able to pick whatever you want from the enemy drops.

- Loading Screens
Yeah that's not going away. Every FF has a shitton of loading screen, except for maybe FFXV.

Well, that's all just basic stuff. I probably forgot many things. What about you? If square released a new MMO, what would you like it to have?

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Originally Posted by Vandso

Is it safe to say that the next FF MMO will be an action game?

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No.
But Ill be honest, Im just saying that because I dont like Making Bold Assumptions and Predictions. Even with other instances and evidence, because you can still be wrong....just like how everyone thought Forspoken was gonna be the next expansion, and just because YoshiP has lied before, it means he's lying now....and behold he wasn't lying and Forspoken was a Whole Different Game.
And....hmm guess I cant give a real Educated opinion here, because the only examples I can draw from are ESO, and BDO. But I just hate how ESO works and I didnt have a good experience with BDO on console (Peasant I know) But they are both Successful enough, I just dont know if it would work for a FF-MMO.

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Originally Posted by Vandso

What to change
- Loading Screens

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Is there a Current MMO-Type Game with no Loading Screens?
Everything would have to be Preloaded and there would be no Instanced Content. Everything would just be live.
I know Runescape did it this way...but of course that was a simpler time when it was a browser game.
IDK, I just dont see this working in a Space will hundreds, to Thousands, or Millions of Players and Assets moving around, that they would be able to eliminate Loading Screens.

I'll only quote the parts that I personally would like changed

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- All jobs in one character
This is the best thing about FFXIV and one of the main reasons why I don't play other MMOs. It makes the game a little alt-unfriendly sure, but who cares? Having all jobs in one character is awesome.

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Yes but with a better loot system than FFXIV.

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- Focus on the social aspect
That's another think about the game that makes me hard to leave. It's what makes FFXIV feel so alive. We have crowded cities, bards, venues, glamours, fashion accessories, adventurer plates. I just wish we have more accessbility options. We wouldn't be able to do what we do with bards/venues without third party tools.

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+1

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- Level-based skills
Maybe skill trees are alright as long as your "skill currency" is gained by level and you have them all at max level. I just dislike the idea of unlocking skills via quests or shop. Imo the worst part of FFXIV's leveing experience is when I have to quit a dungeon queue and disband a party to enter a solo instance.

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+1

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- Fast Travel
That's obligatory in every MMO. If you don't think so go play New World.

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- MSQ is optional, content is unlocked through leveling
We all love the MSQ, but why does every single thing in the game need to be attached to the story? Why can't I do Island Sanctuary and Criterion Dungeons before Endwalker? What about raids, exploratory zones, flight, mounts? That's what makes the game so alt-unfriendly.

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Big agree on this, untie the MSQ from actual content, it's so annoying to not be able to play an alt without either buying a boost (and even then, still gotta do EW MSQ), let us play the game as we wish if we want to go straight to end game content.

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- No Beginner/Secondary Classes
Yeah I want to play Black Mage right away, I don't want to level a Thaumaturge first. Why the hell is called Thaumaturge anyway? Thaumaturge means saint.

- Auto-loot
You know what auto-loot does? Fills your inventory with crap. You should be able to pick whatever you want from the enemy drops.

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Agree with both of those as well

I'd think so. If a particular product design is selling well it would benefit the company to keep making similar products.

No thanks. SE is incapable of writing the netcode that is required for an action game unless they remove so many features like parry or dodge rolls that it basically is just FF14 all over again.

Oh wait, they already did that in a single player game. It's called FF16.

I doubt there will be a new FF MMO any time soon because...

1. They have to establish that the current one cannot be salvaged, like happened to FF11 early on in its life.
2. FF11 was made for consoles and didn't exactly compete with newer MMOs well, or emerging specs.
3. It takes years to make. It took 5 years to make FFXIV (which failed and then was remade in 2 years by reusing assets and lore).

So they would need determine that FFXIV cannot be salvaged or upgraded, which is not the case because we have a graphics upgrade incoming, we have had network and sound improvements recently, the FF16 engine was hinted to have been based on FFXIV's, a rough 10-year-roadmap has been provided by Yoshi-P and even if all that were not so, it would take at least 5 years to make this new MMO because that is how long it took to make FFXIV and it took even longer to make FF16.

Now you could say "but maybe they have been working on one for 5 years already". But there is no evidence of that. It would almost certainly be CBU3 that developed it, and they have been stretched between two games already, and then there are all the previously-mentioned points such as how FFXIV has a 10-year roadmap and it has also been growing each expansion so far.

Could Square Enix change the combat in FFXIV to use action combat?
Sadly no, because if they change a battle system that a lot of people are used to or appreciate for various reasons or are used to from other MMORPGs, many of them will probably just quit and I doubt SE will risk that.

But there could be some middleground, such as a specific class that plays similarly and boss fights that use the FFXIV style to resemble FF16 a bit more (ie. telegraphing with animations instead of standing there casting or showing red circles). Like Giruveganaus, Rathalos or Hrodric Poisontongue.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I doubt there will be a new FF MMO any time soon because...

1. They have to establish that the current one cannot be salvaged, like happened to FF11 early on in its life.
2. FF11 was made for consoles and didn't exactly compete with newer MMOs well, or emerging specs.
3. It takes years to make. It took 5 years to make FFXIV (which failed and then was remade in 2 years by reusing assets and lore).

So they would need determine that FFXIV cannot be salvaged or upgraded, which is not the case because we have a graphics upgrade incoming, we have had network and sound improvements recently, the FF16 engine was hinted to have been based on FFXIV's, a rough 10-year-roadmap has been provided by Yoshi-P and even if all that were not so, it would take at least 5 years to make this new MMO because that is how long it took to make FFXIV and it took even longer to make FF16.

Now you could say "but maybe they have been working on one for 5 years already". But there is no evidence of that. It would almost certainly be CBU3 that developed it, and they have been stretched between two games already, and then there are all the previously-mentioned points such as how FFXIV has a 10-year roadmap and it has also been growing each expansion so far.

Could Square Enix change the combat in FFXIV to use action combat?
Sadly no, because if they change a battle system that a lot of people are used to or appreciate for various reasons or are used to from other MMORPGs, many of them will probably just quit and I doubt SE will risk that.

But there could be some middleground, such as a specific class that plays similarly and boss fights that use the FFXIV style to resemble FF16 a bit more (ie. telegraphing with animations instead of standing there casting or showing red circles). Like Giruveganaus, Rathalos or Hrodric Poisontongue.

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Not anytime soon, but not improbable considering that Yoshida had stated interest in the idea of being able to make a new MMO from scratch

I don't think there will be another FF MMO, personally.

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Originally Posted by Vandso

- Holy Trinity
I don't think Holy Trinity works really well with action games. Since most of the mechanics will be around dodging, timing and positioning, we won't need a tank and a healer every single game. It also makes queues really long.

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I agree with mostly everything, but has there been a mmo without a holy trinity that didn't feel like, weird and forced? In my experience they tend to either have every class more or less the same but with different spell effects or even the support classes end up just feeling like worse dps(Lost Ark)

I guess Rift did it pretty well, but no one played Rift

Monster Hunter too, actually, cause everyone is just dps or support, and that works really well.

That's just personal taste though. I really like how FFXIV lets you change your jobs on the fly so you aren't, for example, stuck on a holy paladin trying to do solo content. That kinda holy trinity(Where tanks and healers do no damage at all and can't solo things) probably needs to die off.(But also xiv kinda blurrs the lines a lil with tanks and healers both doing pretty aight damage)

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- No Beginner/Secondary Classes
Yeah I want to play Black Mage right away, I don't want to level a Thaumaturge first. Why the hell is called Thaumaturge anyway? Thaumaturge means saint.

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I think I'm pretty alone on this, but I absolutely love beginner classes. It reminds me of older d&d with prestige classes, and it doesn't really effect gameplay much aside from just being flavor.

I'd actually kinda like more things like multiclassing, but my understanding is that was in xiv already(Cross class skills) and basically no one liked it, and I'm sure it'd lead to like weird min/maxing where you can't do X until you have Y and Z classes leveled, but I'm willing to admit I might just be in the wrong there lol

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Is there a Current MMO-Type Game with no Loading Screens?
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You can travel across each contintent in WoW with no loading screen. Only changing to another continent or zoning into a instanced area has a loading screen.



I dont agree with your fast travel point. FF14 went too far. Thats why the open world is completly dead. Rather have it like WoW where there is fast travel to specific points, you can unlock some more niche location teleports via toys and items but for the rest you gotta move yourself.

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Originally Posted by SquirrelDerp

I'd actually kinda like more things like multiclassing, but my understanding is that was in xiv already(Cross class skills) and basically no one liked it, and I'm sure it'd lead to like weird min/maxing where you can't do X until you have Y and Z classes leveled, but I'm willing to admit I might just be in the wrong there lol

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You are right, it did work like that. I liked it better that way as well, but there was always a white mage without Swiftcast or a black mage without Quelling Strikes. That was never fun to deal with even if it added more flavor.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Is there a Current MMO-Type Game with no Loading Screens?
Everything would have to be Preloaded and there would be no Instanced Content. Everything would just be live.
I know Runescape did it this way...but of course that was a simpler time when it was a browser game.
IDK, I just dont see this working in a Space will hundreds, to Thousands, or Millions of Players and Assets moving around, that they would be able to eliminate Loading Screens.

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BDO is pre much open world with no loading screens. the only screens i recall are going to housing in whatever city,village, town, or capital you went into a home at.

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

You can travel across each contintent in WoW with no loading screen. Only changing to another continent or zoning into a instanced area has a loading screen.



I dont agree with your fast travel point. FF14 went too far. Thats why the open world is completly dead. Rather have it like WoW where there is fast travel to specific points, you can unlock some more niche location teleports via toys and items but for the rest you gotta move yourself.

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They already sort of tried that in Heavensward with how they made the aetheryte locations spread out and inconvenient. With Dravania Hinterlands not even having one and you have to warp to Idyllshire to get to it. And guess what, people hated it.

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

I dont agree with your fast travel point. FF14 went too far. Thats why the open world is completly dead. Rather have it like WoW where there is fast travel to specific points, you can unlock some more niche location teleports via toys and items but for the rest you gotta move yourself.

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RP travel is fun, when you actually want to do it.

Not so much when you don't want to do it (ie. a raid group waiting for you).

Games just need to get the circumstances that require RP travel right.

I doubt it. Making a single-player action game and an MMO action game are entirely different beasts in regards to development issues/experience necessary, because making something online introduces a hoard of problems, which is why tab-target is so popular for MMOs. When even some fighting game developers don't implement rollback netcode, in a genre that's highly dependent on the online aspect, and in a genre that's just one-on-one combat, I can't really imagine SE going forward and trying to make an action-style MMO with a bunch of players fighting something simultaneously in a way that the action is actually meaningful.

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

I dont agree with your fast travel point. FF14 went too far. Thats why the open world is completly dead. Rather have it like WoW where there is fast travel to specific points, you can unlock some more niche location teleports via toys and items but for the rest you gotta move yourself.

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Fast travel isn't the issue with FF14's open world, imo. WoW pretty much has the equivalent, it's just flight paths (or aiming your mount a direction and auto-flying), and while those aren't instant, who doesn't just alt-tab while they're waiting to arrive? You're not actually experiencing the world, it just takes more time.

The difference is that in WoW there's actually a point to doing stuff in the open world. XIV has FATEs, sure, but those are almost primarily for leveling, and there's many other/better ways to do that. When was the last time you actually had to farm a drop from an overworld enemy in XIV? That's what makes the overworld stay alive in WoW imo, it's the fact that there's drops you need from specific enemies/enemy types/areas/etc that gives people a reason, even at max level, to be killing dudes in whatever zone. The only relevant enemy drop I can think of in XIV is leather, but that comes from ventures too, everything else is just gathering jobs or things you buy with tomes, or whatever. It's just too easy for a max level character in XIV to hole up in main cities forever except for when a new MSQ patch drops, and still maintain the best gear in the game, so they don't have a reason to leave.

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Originally Posted by SquirrelDerp

I guess Rift did it pretty well, but no one played Rift

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I did! I loved the Rift Invasions. Also it was the first time I saw you could be the healer or the tank as a Rogue if you picked the subclasses for them.

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Originally Posted by Akonyl

When was the last time you actually had to farm a drop from an overworld enemy in XIV?

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I fight hunts regularly, I do treasure maps, sometimes I do beast tribe quests or gather on my gatherers.

It's not fair to say that nothing exists to take you into the world, but it is fair to say that there could be more or that it could be more in-depth.

I don't care to speculate too deeply on what their next MMO will be, if there is one, but at least based on Yoshi's own words we can glean what their thinking on it is and that does point to an action one:

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Games like Fortnite and Overwatch are vying for dedicated, online audiences like MMOs do - as a traditional MMO creator how does that make you feel?

Naoki Yoshida: This is happening because the video game industry continuously evolves. Just taking this example, traditional JRPGs are based on turn-based games. and especially for the youth, they feel that it's quite outdated, they don't really understand.. Talking about the younger generation, someone up to the age of 25, because prior to the time they were born, there was relatively high-spec hardware for their gaming experiences - their character is rendered very realistically and they can actually control the characters directly - by pressing one button, the character will punch the enemies or fire the gun...

That's why we don't feel those types of games are a threat because the basic game is designed completely differently. Because the audience that's playing Overwatch and Fortnite are probably in their 20s, they're a younger audience. If that younger audience becomes our main audience for FF14 or our current MMORPG, then we may need to cater to that new audience and create the excitement that they want from a game. We feel that FF14 doesn't really need to play that role. It should be the next generation of MMOs. But if we want to make an MMO which doesn't require targeting, that would be really difficult. We'd probably need to make some drastic changes to the game where there are text chats, but people are using voice chat and you can choose your play style, you can quit anything, you can come back any time... That kind of generation and time will definitely come, but personally speaking it looks very difficult so I don't want to do it!

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https://www.eurogamer.net/final-fant...-proofing-mmos

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Jeux Online: What do you think about the future of the MMORPG genre as whole? The 1st gen and 2nd gen MMORPG audiences have gotten older and the newer generation doesn’t seem that interested in MMOs. So, where do you think the future of MMO lies?

Naoki Yoshida: First and foremost, with Final Fantasy XIV, we do believe that this game is at the maybe tail-end of the 2nd generation of MMORPGs. I believe that World of Warcraft was sort of the start of that 2nd generation. Having that kind of strong content-driven MMOs defined the MMORPGs of that generation. With Final Fantasy XIV, I believe this is the newest game within that generation of MMORPGs, but I also feel that we are coming to the very late part of that 2nd generation. So, I feel that there probably won’t be another MMO that is similar to what has already come out.

Even if Final Fantasy XIV were to release further expansions, maybe 3 or 4 more expansions, we don’t believe that FFXIV would evolve into the 3rd generation of MMORPGs.

We would just continue to pursue and perfect what we have so that we aim to become the ultimate MMORPG within our current generation.

In terms of the 3rd generation of MMORPGs, I believe that we would need to have something design that is fundamentally different.

I think there is a very important element, a keyword almost. The younger generation is one thing, but even with those existing gamers that have become older, there is really not a difference between those two parties. Both types of people have become very busy and there are so many different forms of entertainment, a lot of smart devices being out and available and it is more difficult to carve the time to sit down and do content. Previously, we wouldn’t have to worry about it because there weren’t so much distractions that would take us away, we had the time to sit down and do this sort of time-consuming content. But nowadays, when you start playing a game, you might get an email, you might get a text message, friends might want you to go see the latest movie or go out for a drink ; there are so many different things and so much materialistic objects that can distract you.There are all vying for your time.

You may be aware that worldwide we’ve seen games of the MOBA genre or Battle Royale games becoming very popular, games that people can jump in whenever they want, have that sort of instant gratification, and then quit whenever they want. I think that’s a very attractive set-up for the modern gamer or any gamer in this current time basically. And we feel that for MMOs of the next generation, it is important that we capitalize on that. It is something that’s a key element.

We feel that those are very important elements to incorporate if we were to bring a game that moves us into the next generation of the genre. But if we were to divulge more details, I think we would be giving hints to our competitors on our company’s ideas so I think I’m gonna stop right there.

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https://ffxiv.jeuxonline.info/actual...ion-avenir-mmo

There was also this but it's less relevant to their own ambitions and more Yoshi's: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/fi.../1100-6506550/

Have to say, I find some of his comments, e.g. on JRPGs, a bit odd, and having played both XIV and XVI (much as I enjoyed it), at this point I'm not sure I really want to play another game where he has heavy involvement. My hope would be they put it in someone else's hands.

the only thing that I think is safe to say is...

some people will find the game fun and entertaining. some will not. chances are pretty good it will have not just cutscenes, but loading screens as well.

there will be some form of quick travel.

it will have some kind of quest system that people will love or hate.

I am so certain of it I would put real money on it.

Considering their plans for this game and the reasons they've given for those plans, I don't think there will be any other FF MMORPGs (which isn't to say they may not make a MMO for a different IP). It sounds like most FF franchise fans aren't really into MMOs, or at the very least do not want their FF games to be MMOs.

There hasn't been a good action game made by Square Enix in a very long time.

I had the same thought , it could work as DC Universe Online has a very similar combat system to 16 . You could use like 10 different weapon types which all had unique action combos while you could choose 6 abilities that were on cds from multiple skill trees . Each class could change stance to dps or to 1 of 3 support classes (healer, tank and controller) depending on the power type and switch loadouts depending on the situation . It was actually some of the most fun I've ever had especially as far as raiding and pvp is concerned . This generation hasn't really tapped into it's full potential yet but if the Chrono Odyssey trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX1KE7mIRDE is anything to go by , an action FF mmo doesn't sound too far fetched and I'd be down for it . I like little more chaos in gameplay that an action game can provide when you factor in dodge/counter/block mechanics . Probably won't be anytime soon though , their next mainline game will probably be 18 or 19i n like 10 years

Dunno. If they keep up this whole thing about "appealing to western audiences" the next FF MMO will probably be a Fortnite clone... >.>

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Dunno. If they keep up this whole thing about "appealing to western audiences" the next FF MMO will probably be a Fortnite clone... >.>

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Lasted from 17 Nov 2021 to 11 Jan 2023 lmfao.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmLHZoqa...jpg&name=large

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

Lasted from 17 Nov 2021 to 11 Jan 2023 lmfao.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmLHZoqa...jpg&name=large

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It's a real shame, too, since the concept of playing a character aligned with Shinra is something that appeals to me quite a bit. It had a lot of potential...but as an actual, serious project rather than a throwaway mobile game.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's a real shame, too, since the concept of playing a character aligned with Shinra is something that appeals to me quite a bit. It had a lot of potential...but as an actual, serious project rather than a throwaway mobile game.

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One can only imagine how much better their "main" games (FF14, FF16 etc.) could be if they stopped dumping money into those projects and watch millions of dollars evaporate into the aether for chasing a clout.

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Originally Posted by Vandso

If square released a new MMO, what would you like it to have?

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Primarily, two things.

First, to be capable of, and take advantage of being capable of, highly time-sensitive player controls (e.g., which is, at the core, what separates an "Action" MMO from, say, a "Tab-target" one -- the ability to even pull off gameplay wherein timing makes a crucial difference).

Second, though of equal importance, to focus on maximizing available nuance/complexity per button in practice. Much of that is internal -- such as different parts of one's kit meshing interestingly with others to create highly conditional action-priorities (rather than a static "Do A > B > C"), but much is also contextual (such as by having incoming damage enough that your more-efficient HoT has some serious decision-making behind the risk included and that MP management can be an actual thing, to use part of one role's potential examples) or a result of the balancing between different players' outputs (such that a tank "turtling" can potentially provide an rDPS increase if timed well relative to incoming damage and their healers' incoming offensive opportunities).


Finally, though, while not absolutely essential, I would like to scrap hard roles, embrace multi-jobbing (including by hugely reducing the grind-based barriers to leveling and maintaining multiple jobs), and focus on the identities of jobs themselves, rather than making each a mere sauce added atop a role template.

I also wouldn't mind seeing the return of Character Levels separate from Proficiency Ranks ("Class/Job Levels"), allowing us largely to build our own job. The jobs themselves would be essentially a pre-packaging, but classes (which would take on all the skills but, say, those related to Chakra and Anatman on Monk, jumping/diving and Geirskogul/Nostrand on Dragoon, Enochian and Polyglossia on BLM, Lily actions on WHM, Faeries and Galvanize on SCH, etc.) would be allowed to draw from others.

And, Armor Classes would be opened up completely, with one's "role"-based capacities drawing at least as much from one's choice of Primary Stats (yes, an actual choice then, rather than just 4 different names for Power) as from one's choice of job.

Dual-wielding rapid-striking WAR dps? Add in a bit of the "caster" stats if you like and a hefty chunk of Dexterity to go alongside Strength, and have at it. Want to be a Monk flex-healer? Stack some Spirit. Elementalist mana-burst Monk? Stack some Mind. Wind-synergetic dodge-tank Monk? Dexterity and a bit of Mind (to support a cheat-death Second Wind, at which point you dip out), or Vitality (for just enough eHP to survive, assuming sufficient responsive oGCD heals).

I think it's more of a 'global' question about how the next model of MMORPG is going to be. We're still living in the model that Everquest and WoW set up, which seems to be on a stale or even decline. I think this 'next gen' will still take many years, and I would't be surprised if it was a thing surfacing only in the next decade.

Thing is, I don't feel that any of the companies with major MMORPGs today will risk releasing another title under the current model when their current titles can still be milked for many years, and the OP's consideration about an 'actionMMO' feels like something for the next gen.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I think it's more of a 'global' question about how the next model of MMORPG is going to be. We're still living in the model that Everquest and WoW set up, which seems to be on a stale or even decline. I think this 'next gen' will still take many years, and I would't be surprised if it was a thing surfacing only in the next decade.

Thing is, I don't feel that any of the companies with major MMORPGs today will risk releasing another title under the current model when their current titles can still be milked for many years, and the OP's consideration about an 'actionMMO' feels like something for the next gen.

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In terms of action MMORPG concepts I feel like PSO2 New Genesis is a good example of where to start. It has a good blend of action based gameplay with RPG mechanics along with providing players with build options. It does however rely a bit on instancing however the instanced areas are far more open than FF14. Though cranking up player count to typical MMO levels in most of it's content is probably more of a tech limitation currently.

FF11 was still active and popular at the time they first launched FF14, so saying a company has a profitable MMO currently running doesn't mean they couldn't be in the process of making another. We can only hope the next FF MMO will actually be an MMORPG rather than the MMO Anti-RPG story book that FF14 has become or the action only non-rpg that FF16 was made into.

SE will make an MMO when they feel like they have a story or concept that is best told in MMO format.

That was the case with FFXI - they wanted to have a robust multi job system with sub jobs as an experiment, and the MMO formula seemed like a good fit for that.

With FFXIV, the concept was job changes based on weapon changes, and the MMO formula seemed a good format for that.

FFXII's Star Wars fanfiction gambit system? Better as a single player.

FFXIII's party based evolution of ATB? Better as a single player.

FFXV's bro road trip/royal armory concept (once they freed it from the XIII universe)? Better as a single player.

FFXVI's giant eikon fights in the style of epic kaiju battles? That was actually a scrapped concept from FFXIV's really early planning, if I remember right, and they realized it'd be better as a single player game. FFXVI's story was built around that after the fact. (And they did a damn good job, imo. Story is absolutely the best part about XVI. Fandom has exploded around it.)

Whatever FFXVII ends up being, MMO or not, it'll be because the ideas they had best fit the game they end up making. Maybe they'll go back to CTB because they know the fans are clamoring for it.

In my opinion, most of the "big hit" titles in the past few years that fall into the RPG category have been of the action variety. I'm sort of with the OP on that.

Ever since FFXII, they've drifted in that direction. XII had the gambit system that allowed a player to "watch the battle" instead of engage in a turn-based system. It was like programming almost. A fairly unique idea.

XIII gave us back the necessity to provide user input, but most of it (not all of it) was selecting a "preset" of sorts through the paradigm system... and again watch the battle.
XV was mostly an action RPG
XVI is the same.

If you venture out of the FF series, both Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom are highly popular titles that are action-based. I think Elden Ring follows that same genre as well.

The last "turn-based" game I played was Octopath Traveler and that was designed to be a retro RPG. Sort of putting it in its place - turn-based games being games of the past.

I don't know if we'll have a real action-based MMORPG though. Given the delay of talking to the server, I think it might prove difficult to make it playable if it requires tight inputs to dodge/attack/parry/etc.

I don't see Squenix making another MMO unless Blizzard do first and pave the way.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

SE will make an MMO when they feel like they have a story or concept that is best told in MMO format.

That was the case with FFXI - they wanted to have a robust multi job system with sub jobs as an experiment, and the MMO formula seemed like a good fit for that.

With FFXIV, the concept was job changes based on weapon changes, and the MMO formula seemed a good format for that.

FFXII's Star Wars fanfiction gambit system? Better as a single player.

FFXIII's party based evolution of ATB? Better as a single player.

FFXV's bro road trip/royal armory concept (once they freed it from the XIII universe)? Better as a single player.

FFXVI's giant eikon fights in the style of epic kaiju battles? That was actually a scrapped concept from FFXIV's really early planning, if I remember right, and they realized it'd be better as a single player game. FFXVI's story was built around that after the fact. (And they did a damn good job, imo. Story is absolutely the best part about XVI. Fandom has exploded around it.)

Whatever FFXVII ends up being, MMO or not, it'll be because the ideas they had best fit the game they end up making. Maybe they'll go back to CTB because they know the fans are clamoring for it.

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ATB/Turn based menu style combat and the action oriented combat both have pro's and con's on them. Action oriented combat generally results in less options being available as opposed to the older menu based combat systems because controllers only have so many buttons to map things to. However later FF titles using the menu based systems had a bad habit of things like going overboard with summoning animations. I think the worst offenders were Knights of the Round from FF7 and Ark from FF9 that were basically like a 2-3 minute cutscene every time they were cast.

@Risuko
...Mostly agreed on the whole, but...

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

ATB/Turn based menu style combat and the action oriented combat both have pro's and con's on them. Action oriented combat generally results in less options being available as opposed to the older menu based combat systems...

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I actually have to completely disagree with this, at least unless such high amounts of skill options available through those menus as to be painfully unresponsive.


Consider:


In a menu-based game, you have X actions each within, at most, Y categories. Maybe you have Attacks (20 options), Spells (30 options), and Tactics (10 options), for a total of 60. Cool. You need to hit at least two buttons, and to DPad up to 17 times (even at the most efficient) in order to actually use them, though.

Collectively, that menu-based play would need at least 6 buttons (Select, Back, DPad), with a minimum of 2 presses to access any skill -- and, on average, probably nearer to an additional number of presses equal to 15-30% the average size of each category's bank of skills, depending on their arrangement relative to likelihood of use in sequence.


In a game where timing matters, though, a single immediately-accessible button can source several actions through those differences in timing.

Tap? Double-tap? Triple-tap? Hold short? Hold long? Hold-then-tap? Those can all be separate actions, even before getting into combos/flows and stance- or status-based conditioning, likewise more common in your more "Action"-based games, or that different skills may have different purposes depending on their relative timing.


Menu-based systems, however you layer their maps/categories and arrange the items within each for maximal efficiency in practice, are basically just a refusal to make use of timing, on the expectation that the system will itself get too bloated/unresponsive to permit timing to matter. But that timing itself is a very, very efficient differentiator, if made use of. As such, I don't really even see any clear advantage to reasonably available action count among menu-based systems, despite their also costing so much else.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

I think the worst offenders were Knights of the Round from FF7 and Ark from FF9 that were basically like a 2-3 minute cutscene every time they were cast.

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FF9 had that nice thing that it plays the full thing when you summon it for the first time or when you score that hidden "Summon Crit"
Most of the time when summoning it, it plays the last few seconds of the animation.

Hey, if they could figure out an FF mmo with something like BDO's combat, id be all over it. BDO still has my favorite action combat style of any mmorpg. But I just dont see that happening, at least from CBU3, theyre too far gone with "Accessibility." If BDO ever added timely rings or simplified/homogenized classes there would be a massive uproar...

I'll try and make this as short as possible, but my envision for a future MMO/MMORPG whether it's a Final Fantasy title or a new IP whether from Yoshi or another team at Square or whatever, definitely involves action gameplay and challenge/skill.

Imagine for example the very first FF14 trailer back from 1.0 days https://youtu.be/Vg6yutR3AG0, where the squad of 4 (WAR, ARCH, WHM, BRD) are in that lake area fighting the giant Morbol. Watch that trailer to refresh your memory, that entire fight is so action packed with specific details. The WAR had to draw and keep the Morbol's attention, defending at certain points and finding times to swing his axe. The BRD had to find the right times and aim properly to hit weak points on the Morbol, the WHM was healing and providing powerful shielding when possible, etc. THAT is what I want to see. Monsters and bosses that actually can knock you over taking time to get up, if the tank gets knocked you'll lose aggro and they'll charge other party members, BRDS or MCH or any other ranged would have to actually be able to aim like in FPS's or Overwatch, mage's would have to find appropriate cover and time their spells to assist in battle, protect magic shields can get bashed in and break, BLM spells actually were realistic like ice freezing enemies or being able to light arrows on fire for more damage, all while evading attacks and using strategies depending on the boss/monster etc. That takes a lot of skill, teamwork and challenge, and the most fun about it all is that you would never know who or when someone will mess up or do something incredible to win the fight! I believe that's why games like Overwatch are still super successful with millions playing yeeears after launch because when you jump in a game you never know when someone is gonna be terrible or do something incredible to get the win for your team! There's an air of anticipation and mystery! On top of all that, I wanna see bosses that actually affect terrain, like a cyclops being able to knock over or pick up trees, Morbols being able to infect waters turning the environment to their advantage, and so much more. All of that with real-time updated graphics and physics and improved Ai, would be so immersive and incredible.

Just take a look at this company that's coming out with real-time fire and water physics to add to games, it's mind blowing how fast technology advances! https://youtu.be/B0XsC1LbI8U

Is it safe to say that the next FF MMO will be an action game?

If XVI was the next Elden Ring or Skyrim, YES!!!!!!!

XVI sold a solid number of units (Let's not kid ourselves), but it is still...."Eh"

However, considered how they wined & dined the masses......

Media: XVI is not the best FF
Also Media: "Proceeds to give it a "Best FF" score.

SE was not looking for "Eh" but "WOW"

Speaking of "WOW" & MMO....Microsoft has the most profitable MMO of all-time under their belt most likely.......

The Next WoW may be a action title. The next FF MMO will probabaly be a mobile title because SE needs a damn win......Forspoken & XVI was not really what they were looking for at this point in time.

There is still time for XVI however......But the mobile market is the biggest gaming market. That is why the XI remake was going to be a mobile title.