Ff16 Clive inspired class.

Hey everybody I've been playing ff16 and I have to say I've been enjoying it. But I also have to say I really like the concept of Clives "Summoner Swordsman" style of class and think it would be a great addition to ff14 as a dps class. What do you guys think?

A fast melee job who imbues attacks with elements, is kinda the Mystic/Sorcerer FF job, which is cool, but I can't say I'd be excited to have yet another sword user, when we have 5 already.

Swords have always been the main weapon archetype of FF so you can never have too many sword classes. Besides that us melee dps only have one type of sword and it's a crummy katana. And personally I would much rather us have our own variant of great sword so I don't have to play a TANK to use one. So be that as may a magic knight/swordsman would be a great alternative.

Right, but they don’t have to use a sword in this to be Clive style. I feel like a whip would work really well if they wanted to go this route. I agree, we have enough jobs that use swords.

Maces, whips, and bells, are all weapon types that are currently unused.

Again I want a better sword class for the melee dps. I get you want a different weapon type but at the end of the day I won't care about any other weapon type until we get a better sword class. You won't convince me until then. P.S: Mace and Hammers are Boring!

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Originally Posted by Bloodthrone

Hey everybody I've been playing ff16 and I have to say I've been enjoying it. But I also have to say I really like the concept of Clives "Summoner Swordsman" style of class and think it would be a great addition to ff14 as a dps class. What do you guys think?

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I mean, ideally, I'd just like to see a return of the old 1.x / Strangers of Paradise take on things, wherein, say, one could just level Gladiator + Arcanist->Summoner or Gladiator + Red Mage and then literally use Arcanist's imbuements and Summoner's summons and archon-izations (temporarily gain Ifrit's claws, Garuda's wings, Titan's armor, etc.) or Red Mage's chain-casting and spellblade synergies atop that Gladiator weapon type (bastard sword, spatha, etc.) and Gladiator's guard/counter/opportunist bonuses.

But, at the same time, you could have a Conjurer-Lancer windrunning about, a Black Mage - Monk fire-punching things into ever-increasing sizes of Flare once allowed to detonate, a Black Mage - White Mage Sage balancing life and death while finding synergies between Fire and Wind, Water and Ice/Lightning. Etc., etc. A pure BLM would obviously still have the better pure offense and would be the more meta choice for slotting into a standard comp 8-man raid, but otherwise, the choice is ours, with "odd" mixtures likely being preferred for other forms of content (such as Exploratory Missions and Variant Dungeons, though hopefully with more content types to come).

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Originally Posted by Bloodthrone

Again I want a better sword class for the melee dps. I get you want a different weapon type but at the end of the day I won't care about any other weapon type until we get a better sword class. You won't convince me until then. P.S: Mace and Hammers are Boring!

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It’s fine that you want that, I’m just saying that I wouldn’t get your hopes up. We already have 3 jobs that use one handed swords (paladin, gun breaker, and red mage) and one job that uses 2 handed swords. You have to think about weapon design. Fortunately the 3 one handed sword types are all fairly different, but the more types you have, the harder it is to come up with unique designs.

I think that whips could work extremely well if they ever wanted to do a melee magic user that is Clive inspired.

That being said, SE likes their neat boxes. Is this class a melee class? Magic users have the advantage of being able to be at range. What stat does it use?

I feel like if it used whips they might be able to get away with saying it’s a scouting class so it could share gear with NIN.

If you're looking for a whip class I would like to see a Belmont inspired class from the castlevania series. A Huner class we would call it.

*Hunter sorry typo

That actually sounds awsome! I mean the idea of combining RPR/DRK or DRK/BLM would be mind blowing!

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Originally Posted by Bloodthrone

P.S: Mace and Hammers are Boring!

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dwarven music stops playing

U wot m8

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

dwarven music stops playing

U wot m8

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Brother just said maces and hammers are boring, I'm weeping.

You like swords?

here you can use one sword and another 6 as projectiles or deflective shields around you.

Nothing will ever be as cool as the Blademaster from BnS
https://i.gifer.com/Nxs0.gif

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

Brother just said maces and hammers are boring, I'm weeping.

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That's goin roight in da book.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...169094d006.jpg

But clives class is practicly the dark knight.
Most of his Basis attacks (phoenix and ifrit) look very similary to the moveset of the DRK.
Even his sword is practicly one for DRK.

When, then would i want one, that is more similary to Tidus (fighter class).
One handed DD class with fast movement and maybe focus on flying slashes.

But, it is even true, that the tank classes are Holding allready most of this skills and weapons (the fighter i had in mind would be very similary to paladin, without shield and the holy theme).

We need a class to share gear with ninja anyway, cliveymancer would fit that pretty well, light nimble fighter that uses flurries of primal infused blade combo's, I can see it working out.

I will say it again:HAMMERS AND MACES ARE BORING!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Arohk

You like swords?

here you can use one sword and another 6 as projectiles or deflective shields around you.

Nothing will ever be as cool as the Blademaster from BnS
https://i.gifer.com/Nxs0.gif

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I'm down for a Blade Master as long as I'm able to spill my enemies blood up close and personal.

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Originally Posted by Llynethil

We need a class to share gear with ninja anyway, cliveymancer would fit that pretty well, light nimble fighter that uses flurries of primal infused blade combo's, I can see it working out.

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Honestly the armor Clive seems to be wearing looked to be more akin to Maiming armor. But if you are looking for another Rouge like class how about a Twin blade user like Zidane from FF9?

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Originally Posted by Sequora

I think that whips could work extremely well if they ever wanted to do a melee magic user that is Clive inspired.
...
I feel like if it used whips they might be able to get away with saying it’s a scouting class so it could share gear with NIN.

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(also - you forgot SAM is a sword user)

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Originally Posted by Bloodthrone

If you're looking for a whip class I would like to see a Belmont inspired class from the castlevania series. A Huner class we would call it.

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I've thought before a class like Bart from Xenogears would be cool. I think whips would work better as a Ranged Physical than a Melee, though. Whips aren't really melee weapons, and if someone's within 2-3 feet of you, a whip is generally not going to work well for you.

I don't think whips make sense for this kind of class, though. Honestly, Clive would probably have worked better in that sense as a fist weapon class, given how he punches and blocks with Titan, or summons Ramuh's staff into his hands for lightning attacks. Even the Phoenix uppercut is like a punch. While he does do some imbued sword attacks, those could be replicated with most any weapon type.

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As for the idea, an Evoker or something that works that way would be really cool, and thematically fit Merycidia (birthplace, as far as we know, of summoning; at least there was a lot of summoning done there when Alleg tried to conquer them in war, and where the Allegans learned to capture Primals like the Warring Triad ones from HW or Bahamut). A melee-summoner, sorta, just with less summoning and more Primal imbued attacks.

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Originally Posted by Bloodthrone

Honestly the armor Clive seems to be wearing looked to be more akin to Maiming armor. But if you are looking for another Rouge like class how about a Twin blade user like Zidane from FF9?

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Hm Zidane is mostly a thief, maybe he could start as a Rogue and then changes to another Job similar to Ninja, we really need another job that uses scouting gear.
https://i.imgur.com/c8Dnn5h.gif

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Originally Posted by Arohk

Hm Zidane is mostly a thief, maybe he could start as a Rogue and then changes to another Job similar to Ninja, we really need another job that uses scouting gear.
https://i.imgur.com/c8Dnn5h.gif

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Gimme a dual-wielding sword job. Call it Duelist, Swashbuckler, Corsair, literally don't care, just make it DUAL WIELDING SWORDS. The Gladiator emblem annoys me so much, Im starved for proper dual wielding that isn't just purely Ninja.

It would fit everything well, from Dexterity as a stat making sense to being similar to Ninja and Dancer being dual wielders. But not knives or chakrams, just... swords.

I know that the idea of more sword-wielding jobs may be unpopular, but I would love to see a dual wielding sword job for melee. In particular, I want something built off of the Ivalician Unyielding Blade, drawing on techniques from Orlandeau and Meliadoul (i.e. Crush Helm). It could fit with the Scouting aesthetic, because Templars/Divine Knights wear hooded armor sets. Perhaps it could use a mix of light and darkness themed attacks with the likes of Northswain's Strike and Shadowblade, paired up with debuffs like Twice-come Ruin. You could mix in some inspiration from other magic sword techniques, like Mystic Knight, Rune Fencer, or even Celes' Runic.

Ideally, the base weapon type should be a hand-and-a-half sword, without any curves, spikes, or cutlass handles like you get on DRK for some reason. Alternatively, they could draw inspiration from something like Cloud's Fusion Sword and have a pair of longswords that assemble to form a bigger weapon on special attacks, either a twinblade or greatsword.

I think that the DEX reliance of Scouting is another issue in itself, given that most melee players want the flexibility to swap within their chosen role, but that's something for another time.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I know that the idea of more sword-wielding jobs may be unpopular, but I would love to see a dual wielding sword job for melee. In particular, I want something built off of the Ivalician Unyielding Blade, drawing on techniques from Orlandeau and Meliadoul (i.e. Crush Helm). It could fit with the Scouting aesthetic, because Templars/Divine Knights wear hooded armor sets. Perhaps it could use a mix of light and darkness themed attacks with the likes of Northswain's Strike and Shadowblade, paired up with debuffs like Twice-come Ruin. You could mix in some inspiration from other magic sword techniques, like Mystic Knight, Rune Fencer, or even Celes' Runic.

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As long as we're going well beyond the effects seen in previous works, that seems pretty feasible and cool.

(Would rather see something not-more-swords first, and I don't think Sword Saints particularly have much identity of their own -- at least as they were -- but admittedly, some referential jobs really would probably fit best with swords.)

Templar/Dervish/Watcher/Warder, maybe? Each seems like it could be taken in a direction that fleshes it out well and uniquely. (Though some feel like most among they'd at least need the capacity to vuln-debuff a la Trick Attack/Mug and to perform typal output suppression a la old Delirium/Rage of Halone?)

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I think that the DEX reliance of Scouting is another issue in itself

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Couldn't they just have the new Scouting job scale with both Agility and Strength? Given that it'd start at a level too high to encounter any gear that simultaneously holds both STR and DEX, it'd just mean they're allowed to use both Aiming and Slaying accessories.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Templar/Dervish/Watcher/Warder, maybe? Each seems like it could be taken in a direction that fleshes it out well and uniquely. (Though some feel like most among they'd at least need the capacity to vuln-debuff a la Trick Attack/Mug and to perform typal output suppression a la old Delirium/Rage of Halone?)

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Crush Helm. The animation is already in the game from a couple of boss fights, and it's iconic enough. It also fits with the descriptions of the Corvosi Unyielding Blade that Zenos gives in 'The Hunt Begins' short story.

My thought is that this would be something debuff-orientated, given the 'Crush' moves from Final Fantasy Tactics, as well as the 'Ruination' mechanics that we've seen Ivalician bosses use. You could perhaps have combos to both astrally and umbrally polarize your opponents (with the likes of Judgement Blade/Hallowed Bolt/Northswain's Strike and Duskblade/Shadowblade/Fellblade), and then convert it into Twice-com Ruin to make spell effects activate for more damage coupled with a Crush Helm burst window. Perhaps have actions like Shirahadori/Runic apply the appropriate polarization debuff if you manage to apply it on the correct raidwide type.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Couldn't they just have the new Scouting job scale with both Agility and Strength? Given that it'd start at a level too high to encounter any gear that simultaneously holds both STR and DEX, it'd just mean they're allowed to use both Aiming and Slaying accessories.

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That could work, although you'd have to make sure that a pure STR accessory set was not inferior to a mixed STR/DEX accessory set in terms of secondary stats on any given tier.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Crush Helm.

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Sure, but... what is that going to be given that NPCs have no helms to destroy? Either it'd, in effect, reduce some stat we'd associate with Armor in some way (so, Mug, but perhaps Physical only), or reducing some stat affiliated with one's head (Accuracy, Intelligence, Mind, etc.), no? That's why I said such a job would probably need to be capable of either inflicting the enemy with some manner of Vulnerability Up or some manner of {Stat} Down.

The animation is also basically a spell, no? We have it on Chariot Dude, but it's almost entirely an isolated VFX akin to a spell, rather than anything seemingly related to use of a sword, let alone dual-wielding them.

And again, my main concern with trying to base this job on its old iterations is simply that Sword Saint in those iterations does not have an identity of its own. It's literally just Dark Knight + Holy Knight + Divine Knight slapped together into a single thus-enlarged kit, with some core traits of each removed in favor of that muddled versatility.

Therefore, this...

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Originally Posted by Lyth

as well as the 'Ruination' mechanics that we've seen Ivalician bosses use. You could perhaps have combos to both astrally and umbrally polarize your opponents (with the likes of Judgement Blade/Hallowed Bolt/Northswain's Strike and Duskblade/Shadowblade/Fellblade), and then convert it into Twice-com Ruin to make spell effects activate for more damage coupled with a Crush Helm burst window. Perhaps have actions like Shirahadori/Runic apply the appropriate polarization debuff if you manage to apply it on the correct raidwide type.

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...seems the much more promising to me, especially since the prospects of Mystic Knight (and to a much lesser degree, Rune Fencer) were already largely absorbed by XIV's Dark Knight (and Red Mage).

Go deep with the Light-Dark comboing/balancing/synergies in a way that's distinct from RDM, versatility in (de)buffing that's nonetheless quite distinct from NIN and yeah, and takes on anti-magic that's distinct from DRK, etc., and I could imagine the new job being pretty cool, though, yeah. It's definitely an appealing aesthetic, imo.


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EDIT:

Just some other potential Scouting Job (highly spitball) food-for-thought ideas (from a thread that wanted a "Magical Melee DPS" role and somehow didn't think that any of the existing melee used magic or casts?):

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

On a more constructive note... Here are some random job ideas that would likely happen to have more casts than existing melee:

Adept (Scouting or Striking) - Wielding a long, lean martial staff, the Adept is a versatile, highly agile, and variably supportive front-line fighter. Its spells cast unlock and/or augment its available weaponskills and abilities, with its Mana spent leaving a portion resonating within them of that element (colored on the MP bar). The Adept has, directly or indirectly, access to all six elements, with certain combinations of elements able to source or augment others (Fire on a central target spreading Wind damage outward, etc.) and some skills able to combine one element's means of conveyance (e.g., an Earthen Spike) with another's effect (Lightning's Polarity, for instance, to form a Galvanic Spike). Operating on up to 20% increased Attack Speed depending on use of Wind (and different but similarly direct means of APM increase within Water and Lightning), the Adept is not likely to be one of the easier jobs, be that in terms of reflexes or decision-making.

Wildblood (Scouting or Casting) - Though technically wielding a regalia --subsumed (rather painfully) into the dominant hand and reshaping its arm-- the primary weapon of the Wildblood is claws and... blood. As Hemomancers, the Wildblood are a particularly nasty breed of versatile saboteur, capable of stealing away attributes from enemies for their own use, and increasingly wielding their own and their enemies stolen lifeforce against their foes. They are particularly hardy through their ability to trade blood for mana and vice versa, though damage can in turn suppress their offensive capability. Able to damn near tank when stealing life-force from a sufficient number of mobs, and to heal the majority of the party's damage intake when commanding the enemy's attention, the Wildblood's role in practice can be a bit... flexible, though its highest contribution to raid throughput usually follows from an offensive role with timely suppression.

Warden (Maiming or Striking) - Sort of a cross between a Paladin and an acme-Witcher, the Wardens carrying long maces (or, long macil -- straight, in this case two-handed clubs with up to a 1/3rd meter section of spiked steel plating over the end) and use a spend a fair portion of their time in casting Holy, Soul, and Balance magics, especially self-buffs (each formed from and named after a Sigil). Charged with both keeping monsters out of villages, and the combating of a plague within their cities that would leave their quickly aggressive victims particularly hardy against all but blunt weapons and Holy and Soul magics, Wardens are simultaneously heavy hitters and methodical coordinators that are individually sturdy and collectively even sturdier. A portion of their casts can act as shields, reducing incoming damage by a flat amount, such that these casts aren't inherently a weakness. The Warden's self-buffs can be used on others for external utility, though such usually lacks synergy compared to self-casting, as each recipient may only carry one Sigil from each benefactor but Wardens are free to cast as many Sigils on themselves as they are able to balance (between exploiting them while active and granting further synergies from carrying multiple at a time). (Because this restriction does not apply to Wardens, beware of All-Warden strike gangs in Frontlines.)

Úlfheðinn (Striking or Scouting) - Dual-axe wielding warrior-shamans that steal away your Beastmaster from the horrors of being reduced to a limited job. Switching between fast and brutal attackers and more cunning ones, they rotate between the imbued or invoked (summoned) spirit of the Wolf (allows, among other things, for dash-strikes and freer and longer combos), Bear (allows for further defensives and strong gauge spenders), or Hawk (allows for weapon-throwing and rapid mobility). While they can cast very little, optimal play tends to weave in a few rituals to capitalize on high-damage periods or replenish MP again for another burst. These rituals may restrict movement to a small area (as per Ley Lines) or directly (as per any other normal cast).

Shifter (Scouting) - So... distinctly not a Morpher, if that's what you were expecting. No, the Shifter, is a user of sentient scarves/cloaks (called their "Shroud") -- almost akin to a Dancer in aesthetic, or something out of Journey -- with a very unique means of 'casting'. If it were said to have any (meta-)elements, they would be of Weave, Sand, and maybe Skies. In role, they are extremely flexible, and tend to dabble in both healing and tanking in premade light-party or 1|6|1 content. (In an ideal world, they could outright sign up for any role for most content.) Shifters are technically melee, but in a sense occasionally like that of a puppeteer: The Shifter actually carries multiple player positions that it can use to its advantage (though for which it is never penalized, such as by having a higher chance of being hit by AoEs) --the original player position, the midpoint of the Shroud, and the edge of the Shroud-- and may at times 'snap' or "Shift" to a safe space among them. Thus a Shifter may at times act from up to 15 meters out, puppeteering from range without penalty to part of its kit, in order to simultaneously support allies elsewhere. This Shroud may be redoubled around the Shifter herself, granting aspects, settle around an ally to benefit and allow strikes around them, smother enemies, be positioned as per a pet, or move in the Shifter's place (the Shifter herself remaining stationary while her movement controls puppet the dash-strike-capable Shroud, with whom she can then swap places). The Shifter's CDs allows for the Shroud to be duplicated, too, creating positionable clones, or to slip into the Weave itself, targeting aspects of the chosen enemy and ally to sever (by attacking these aspects) or fortify.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Sure, but... what is that going to be given that NPCs have no helms to destroy?

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It's a bit like how NIN used to have 'Armor Crush' even when fighting monsters without armor. It's just the tradition behind the action. The original translated name for the action was 'Blastar Punch' in the 1997 Final Fantasy Tactics release. This is the action that you see used by Rofocale in the Royal City of Rabinastre, Thunder God Cid in the Orbonne Monastery, and Pallas Athena in Pandaemonium Savage, the Twelfth Circle (Part 2). It hits targets multiple times with a stacking vulnerability up debuff (irrespective of whether you happen to have a hat glamored on or not), before landing a final tankbuster hit. It frequently gets accompanied by the following:

'Misfortune hangs heavy on the prideful. Poor cover for when the heavens fall.'

Chanting or macroing that in while playing would be mandatory. Preferably in all caps.

Not looking good after fan fest lol. There’s also the fact that summoner is basically a caster version of this.

We’re literally imbues with the power of primals. I cannot imagine they’re going to add a melee class that is basically a cooler version of summoner.