[dev1035] Improvement of Targeting (discuss)

Link:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...argeting-Modes

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[dev1035] Improvement of Targeting Modes

* Targeting Mode A (Targeting mode before the patch 1.16)

Target/Menu Navigation Keys and Corresponding Actions

o Up/Down
Target party members in order
o Left/Right
Cycle through all selectable targets

* Selecting Targeting Mode A set the Targeting Mode to "ALL."

* Targeting Mode B (Targeting mode after the patch 1.16)

Target/Menu Navigation Keys and Corresponding Actions

o Up/Down
Cycle through targeting modes
o Left/Right
Cycle through valid targets, according to the targeting mode currently selected, in order

* Selecting Targeting Mode B will disable Targeting Mode "ALL."

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Feedback:

I think i could love this option. :p
Being able to select from old & new targeting feature would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Laughlyn

Link:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...argeting-Modes



Feedback:

I think i could love this option. :p
Being able to select from old & new targeting feature would be nice.

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Neither one is working properly though. People aren't satisfied now and they weren't satisfied then. We need to brainstorm the reasons why neither worked an try to figure out what would.

Or at least talk about what didn't work. It'll give insight to the devs.

If I have to answer, B.
I can get use to the targeting modes, I'm sure once I get use to it, it'll be faster.

I had alot of problems with the old system because I was in the middle of the action alot, It would make me useless I'd have to scroll through Umpteen targets to get the one I wanted. That needed to change. Though we have the new targeting I've yet to try Gladiator so I've no idea how much better it would be.
As archer I did run into the problem of having to totally change the way I target in order to make it work. I'm sure that would be the case for Gladiator as well.

My problem is, neither one of these solutions help my problem with targeting. Scrolling through everything is the worst part, now they have lowered it so I only target a select group of targets. I play with gamepad, any sort of action MMO I can think of you just run up and start attacking things. This is close to an action MMO as is, they want us to play position and such, give us an auto-target system, make it easier for us.

I miss sub targets from FFXI, If they're going to keep this type of targeting system, they should add a way to bring up sub targeting. Using abilities on any target but the one your locked onto is a horrid mess.

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Originally Posted by ESAR

Neither one is working properly though. People aren't satisfied now and they weren't satisfied then. We need to brainstorm the reasons why neither worked an try to figure out what would.

Or at least talk about what didn't work. It'll give insight to the devs.

If I have to answer, B.
I can get use to the targeting modes, I'm sure once I get use to it, it'll be faster.

I had alot of problems with the old system because I was in the middle of the action alot, It would make me useless I'd have to scroll through Umpteen targets to get the one I wanted. That needed to change. Though we have the new targeting I've yet to try Gladiator so I've no idea how much better it would be.
As archer I did run into the problem of having to totally change the way I target in order to make it work. I'm sure that would be the case for Gladiator as well.

My problem is, neither one of these solutions help my problem with targeting. Scrolling through everything is the worst part, now they have lowered it so I only target a select group of targets. I play with gamepad, any sort of action MMO I can think of you just run up and start attacking things. This is close to an action MMO as is, they want us to play position and such, give us an auto-target system, make it easier for us.

I miss sub targets from FFXI, If they're going to keep this type of targeting system, they should add a way to bring up sub targeting. Using abilities on any target but the one your locked onto is a horrid mess.

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Depends how much of FF11 they brought back. Gamepad wise, you'll get it down fast. Up/down PC select is very effective in scrolling through you PCs, and due to it's attack range, left right NPC works fast.

yes we're still missing key macros and buttons in likst <st(n)pc)> and /assist.

and hopefully they finally fixed the stupid auto target next enemy, without it having to swing at you first.

It's getting then in a ultra round about way.

Nuu there goes the option to target yourself with Down Arrow key on the gamepad :( Oh well gotta live with it I guess. This probably scratches the possibility that we get to bind the camera on the arrow keys as well? That wouldn't be that wise ;o;

The keyboarders gotta switch to gamepad then :P

I hope that wasn't everything for the 1.16a patch :O But we'll see. 1.17 will be just around the corner hopefully!

I would like to see some <stpc> (sub target player character) and <stpt> (sub target party memeber) come back into play when doing sub targeting.
I like using UP and down to cycle between party memebers, but I wish this would also work for when I'm sub targeting, current pressing up and down when doing a sub target doesn't focus on the party members, and I wish that it would. :)

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Originally Posted by Bethor

Nuu there goes the option to target yourself with Down Arrow key on the gamepad :( Oh well gotta live with it I guess. This probably scratches the possibility that we get to bind the camera on the arrow keys as well? That wouldn't be that wise ;o;

The keyboarders gotta switch to gamepad then :P

I hope that wasn't everything for the 1.16a patch :O But we'll see. 1.17 will be just around the corner hopefully!

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Well 1st member should be you so pressing down should theoretically start with yourself, if you weren't moving it around. Assuming they follow FF11's lead in that.

Though it's a bit more hassle, since FF14 has 8 members and FF11 has 6, there is no alliance that can slow it down. If they were smart enough to have the arrow sign also on the side party member bars, then you don't have to track down anyone's position, just follow the list.

This is all assuming they're taking the FF11 lead, of course. If they make another 8 headed monster UI...
And binding camera keys has always been kinda non needed with target locks, one of FF11's inherence. Good and bad, but mostly good depending on how well they got the chase camera down.

But yes there was, and should still be an option, and they have 90% of the FF11 key-settings down anyway. num-7-9 was camera rotate and page up was zoom out page down was zoom in, etc.

Thus was the start of the one handed playing style of that no other MMO before could achieve. FF11 for all its warts was not shy in making something that was horribly effective at both controlling and communicating at the same time.

Left hand, typing, occasional tabbing and macro execution
Right hand - All other movement and selection functions. (number pad mostly)

Please please please add the <stpc> and <stnpc> commands in macros! -_- These patch notes are good, but I still dont see <stpc> and <stnpc> !!! Plus, it's still impossible to use targeting keys after selecting an action. Meh.
Oh I was forgetting: still no AoE on/off widget after selecting an action by a macro!
Please Square Enix... :|

God so the solution is 2 wrongs make a right? Both systems are very clumsy for targeting. Would be easier to hold a button down, one for PCs and one for mobs and then the appropriate direction buttons. When nothing is held down, it'll work how it did b4. But it make targeting easier.

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Originally Posted by Jovy

God so the solution is 2 wrongs make a right? Both systems are very clumsy for targeting. Would be easier to hold a button down, one for PCs and one for mobs and then the appropriate direction buttons. When nothing is held down, it'll work how it did b4. But it make targeting easier.

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Oh geez no, people will get tired in about 5 fights and leave.

The problem is more a a problem with console vs PC again. PC's have it easy because they expect you to lock on to anything with a click of a mouse, because there isn't any locking, and thus at the same time, chase cameras are banned as procedure. They also use the monitor to their full use, aka top down camera. Into a RTS like procedure.

Consoles have it opposite, you are expected to lock on and chase camera for it to be effective. Mouse and imperfect targeting are the the banned UIs.

This isn't an action game, no one is going to be holding down crap, heck since you're communicating, you rarely rarely have the fingers to do anything permeant.

That's why FF11 invented smart selection. /stpc, tabbing, and intelligent target switching.

There's going to have to be some middle point. You can't have a completely console type but a completely PC type. The best they can do is continue on the path of intelligent targeting. The probability of hitting something close is greater then far, etc, etc.

From the moment they introduced the moded targeting system, in patch 1.16, I thought all that system needed was a combination of buttons to cycle between targeting modes (like we do now, to adjust the camera with the gamepad.) If that small change were effected, then they could alter the directional controls so that you could still use the D-Pad's (or directional arrows') up-down to target party members in displayed-list order, and left-right to target positionally, according to selected mode.

If you add to this the ability to toggle between the old and new systems, which apparently is coming with patch 1.16a, then you would have very little complaints regarding targeting from, at least, this one player.

All of this, of course should be accompanied by the ability to write down macro targets in as specific a manner as we could do in FFXI. Where are our <stnpc>, <stpc>, <bt>, <st>, <lastst>, <r>, and of course our /assist command?

I don't know... I prefer B-Mode, but it still incomplete.

what about something like:

In combat: left right: select monsters
Up down: select party members
I don't really need to lock a no-party member when I'm in combat.

out of combat: B mode.

Anyway, we need another button for subtargetting purpose. what about R1 for a fleeting unlock?

Honestly I think if they just kept the current targeting modes that they have right now, but while in each rather then needing to select the first target it just auto-targeted the closest of that target type from their select by either changing point of view or selecting left or right. It would fix the problems with the current system.

Now there is also the problem of not being able to switch targets for a single attack while locked on. For this, I think they need to bring back some sort of sub-targeting system. They could bring this up by holding down an action on the bar.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ESAR

Honestly I think if they just kept the current targeting modes that they have right now, but while in each rather then needing to select the first target it just auto-targeted the closest of that target type from their select by either changing point of view or selecting left or right. It would fix the problems with the current system.

Now there is also the problem of not being able to switch targets for a single attack while locked on. For this, I think they need to bring back some sort of sub-targeting system. They could bring this up by holding down an action on the bar.

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Yes, in FF11 there was a manual sub targeting system for lock on. In FF4, you had to unlock and re target, which isn't bad, but isn't good.

And it also faintly falls into the fact FF14 doesn't have an auto-attack system. FF11 inherently knew that you had to "attack" something, but FF14, you don't you can use any skill without having aggressive action. The easy way would have been skill <stnpc>.

That's kinda unique. Without auto attack, to "initiate a battle", you have to depend on auto locks. Because right now we have target lock and target select. A very confusing state, without auto attacks.

It's a matter of semantics, but it's basically why they had a problem in the first place. The mixing of console and PC got a big crack in this case.

Basically the problem with FF14 is that you get "retarget"ed depending on what skills you do, and how you do it. Which happens a lot if you visit the "auto target next, after monster dies" problem.