I was going to grind hundreds of hours of Blue Mage...

...with the thought of Shadowkeeper being a possible Blu Savage reward but now it will only cost me ~30 minutes of work to get. Thanks SQ.


Jokes aside, this is gross. Switch the stupid axolotl w/ shadowkeeper and everything will be right. Give all of the people who want cute mounts from the store and let the sweaty idiots earn the cool mount from actual work and effort.

I think it's fine the way it is. This is nothing new. People are just unhappy they gotta pay is all.

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

I think it's fine the way it is. This is nothing new. People are just unhappy they gotta pay is all.

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No, players are unhappy that the mount quality in game has been dropping and mounts like cruise chaser and shadowkeeper are ending up on the store when they could be in-game rewards.
I don't have a problem with the store as long as the stuff on there remains like the fat cat and seasonal event items

For the record i'm not saying it needed to be a blu reward or a raid reward, it could've been an easy achievement or a quest reward, even MGP.

Am I the only one who prefers the Axolotl to the wolf? Just me then...

Seems weird to plan to grind blue mage for hundreds of hours based on the possibility of an unknown and unreleased mount being a reward.

I was planning to continue leveling blue mage because I like blue mage.

Plan to level blue mage, but I hope they improve the interplay gameplay of spells, and remove some of the frustrating elements of core spells (self stun is fine when you control 4 characters, it's just pure pain when you're the only character).

As for the mount I really wish they'd avoid putting in game content into the shop, at least you might see the mount and then a remix of it in the shop. Direct to shop is a bit :/ lol

Benefit to me is I think that mount looks really eh as a 'mount' so it's like "oh... oh no... SO ANYWAY I WAS BLASTING!" :p

Doggie nots worth the grind. Doggie has no emotes. Is BORINGS!

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

People are just unhappy they gotta pay is all.

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This is a grotesque oversimplification.

I can guarantee you that many of the people upset by this sort of macrotransaction exploitation of game content are very capable of purchasing the item if they want it. In fact, I think there's a lot of anecdotal evidence floating around that some of the biggest "whales" and "transaction-enjoyers" tend to be people who are actually not in a financial place to really be doing it — a commonly-seem outcome of addiction and FOMO-manipulation mechanisms throughout modern commerce.

It's true that if you throw enough darts at a large enough population, some of them will surely strike something — so I'm sure that "some" players indeed are "merely" angry at needing to spend real money on a cash shop mount, with no other concerns.

However, I will, again, outright-guarantee that many others are more than capable of trivially-affording the price, and their hostility instead stems from what they want out of a game, and how they want games to distribute rewards. They believe that this is inappropriate or unsatisfying "gameplay" (or lack thereof), and they dislike the idea of obtaining something without actually "playing the game" — especially something that feels closely-tied to content or story that they feel connected to.

This should not be a foreign concept to anyone old enough to be playing FFXIV — the idea that it's satisfying to most human beings to "work towards" rewards within a given context or system.

It's the same reason why we feel excited for athletes who work hard to earn trophies by playing a given game-system's rules, and rather apathetic towards individuals who simply purchase old trophies on eBay — even though, technically-speaking, the end result is the same either way: someone has obtained a piece of metal or crystal in a certain shape.

Trying to boil it down to "people just don't like paying money" fundamentally fails to understand what it is about gaming that motivates a lot of participants, and why the rewards have meaning beyond their literal possession.

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

I think it's fine the way it is. This is nothing new. People are just unhappy they gotta pay is all.

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Disagree. I also don't think it is an issue that people are unhappy that they need to pay.

The Shadow Wolf is a raid boss mount from the Eden series, which would have made it a pretty suitable candidate for BLU. I would go as far to argue that the reward for completing raids on BLU this time around is likely to be a simple title when in reality it should have been this mount.

You could have released the Megaloambystoma via Mogstation, and yes whilst you would get some complaints, I could guarantee you that it wouldn't be nearly as prevalent as this.

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Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

This is a grotesque oversimplification.

I can guarantee you that many of the people upset by this sort of macrotransaction exploitation of game content are very capable of purchasing the item if they want it. In fact, I think there's a lot of anecdotal evidence floating around that some of the biggest "whales" and "transaction-enjoyers" tend to be people who are actually not in a financial place to really be doing it — a commonly-seem outcome of addiction and FOMO-manipulation mechanisms throughout modern commerce.

It's true that if you throw enough darts at a large enough population, some of them will surely strike something — so I'm sure that "some" players indeed are "merely" angry at needing to spend real money on a cash shop mount, with no other concerns.

However, I will, again, outright-guarantee that many others are more than capable of trivially-affording the price, and their hostility instead stems from what they want out of a game, and how they want games to distribute rewards. They believe that this is inappropriate or unsatisfying "gameplay" (or lack thereof), and they dislike the idea of obtaining something without actually "playing the game" — especially something that feels closely-tied to content or story that they feel connected to.

This should not be a foreign concept to anyone old enough to be playing FFXIV — the idea that it's satisfying to most human beings to "work towards" rewards within a given context or system.

It's the same reason why we feel excited for athletes who work hard to earn trophies by playing a given game-system's rules, and rather apathetic towards individuals who simply purchase old trophies on eBay — even though, technically-speaking, the end result is the same either way: someone has obtained a piece of metal or crystal in a certain shape.

Trying to boil it down to "people just don't like paying money" fundamentally fails to understand what it is about gaming that motivates a lot of participants, and why the rewards have meaning beyond their literal possession.

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So... People are just unhappy they gotta pay is all, instead of raid reward.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

I was planning to continue leveling blue mage because I like blue mage.

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I was planning to continue leveling blue mage despite hating it because they surely will put some TT card behind the completion of the story (god I wish they wouldn't).

I'll save my outrage for something that I'd actually want.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

The Shadow Wolf is a raid boss mount from the Eden series, which would have made it a pretty suitable candidate for BLU. I would go as far to argue that the reward for completing raids on BLU this time around is likely to be a simple title when in reality it should have been this mount.

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BLU got a morbol for doing coil and alexander raids. The Twintania mount is from the invite-a-friend campaign. There have been lots of mounts that you could only get from PvP that were things from other content, like ADS or the Magitek Conveyor. By now people should know not to expect SE to give thematically appropriate mounts. If you look at some non-beast tribe datamined mount and think "this would make a ton of sense as the reward for ____" then you should know by now that you're probably not gonna get it there.

Im just doing Blue Mage because I like Blue Mage. The reward is 2nd value to me. Heck I still have yet to get the Morbol mount even though its cool. I just dont have it in mind for the drive to get it.

Cant we just express how lame something is without having to be all dramatic about it? I hate that the Shadowkeeper mount is tied to the cash shop as much as the next guy but its not enough for me to prevent me from wanting to have fun with the new Blue Magic spells we'll be getting this update.

I think we need 7 more threads on the same issue before nothing changes.

maybe 8.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

BLU got a morbol for doing coil and alexander raids. The Twintania mount is from the invite-a-friend campaign. There have been lots of mounts that you could only get from PvP that were things from other content, like ADS or the Magitek Conveyor. By now people should know not to expect SE to give thematically appropriate mounts. If you look at some non-beast tribe datamined mount and think "this would make a ton of sense as the reward for ____" then you should know by now that you're probably not gonna get it there.

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At this point in time, it has created a pattern that raid bosses are mog station purchases. They could datamine Hippokampos from Pandemonium floor 2 and it's probably going to be mog station at this point. I agree that in-game mount quality has taken a dip but it makes logical sense to me that the PAID mounts need to be worth your dollar or why bother buying them.

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Originally Posted by DayHealer

So... People are just unhappy they gotta pay is all, instead of raid reward.

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No, that's really not it.

You're extrapolating a part of the overall concept, and attempting to magnify it into the entire premise.

It's technically true that people are "upset that they have to pay", but that is not the entirety of the complaint — as can be seen from the fact that raiding itself requires paying (for the game, for the expansions, for the subscription fee).

More completely, it's that they have to pay "for something which has no direct relation to gameplay", and therefore, is not perceived as a reward or an accomplishment — making it feel meaningless and, depending on the individual, insulting.

You would probably see a high overlap of displeasure reactions with roughly the same segment of players if, for example, the actual Eden mount (from Promise F4Sp2) became available for 1 gil from a Moogle vendor as part of a celebration event, or TOP Glamours became available for Moogle Tomes at the next "please gods, please stay subscribed" farming event.

I think the core issue for these players is that they place a lot of value on the perceived accomplishments that they achieve by "playing the game" and "overcoming challenges", and items like Savage Boss mounts have come to symbolize those achievements to them.

So, they become defensive about seeing those models now being taken out of the Savage Raiding scene, and instead handed out for, essentially, "free" — not in terms of dollar amounts, but in terms of "effort" and "gameplay challenge".

Of course it swings both ways, and you also see players who resent having to practice and clear Savage to get a flying pink fetus with gills, and so on, and would rather just sacrifice part of their paycheck — and certainly, you can put a "price" on Savage mounts if you wanted to (either literally, through purchasing carries, or abstractly, through calculating what else could have been earnt during the hours spent learning and clearing the raid for X weeks).

But in reference to the segment of the playerbase that objects to mounts like Cruise Chaser and Shadowkeeper on the cash shop, I think it's definitely more complicated than just "I have to pay money".

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

At this point in time, it has created a pattern that raid bosses are mog station purchases. They could datamine Hippokampos from Pandemonium floor 2 and it's probably going to be mog station at this point. I agree that in-game mount quality has taken a dip but it makes logical sense to me that the PAID mounts need to be worth your dollar or why bother buying them.

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eehh I still say the "mount quality" is subjective at best. The Shadowkeeper mount is cool, but theres still just as good obtainable in-game mounts. At least its not like in other MMOs where they're not even trying to hide the fact that literally the best design cosmetics are behind the cash shop. I feel FFXIV has a good balance with its cosmetics vs cash shop ratio. But thats just me.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

=For the record i'm not saying it needed to be a blu reward or a raid reward, it could've been an easy achievement or a quest reward, even MGP.

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Now think about it from Square Enix's perspective. They could design a unique mount and either write a whole quest chain, dump it in the Gold Saucer where they know everyone has more MGP than they know what to do with or... make a profit off of it. Are you at all surprised which they landed on? People need to accept they aren't going to do quest chains just to give you a free mount. You can certainly argue the mog station is getting excessive or any number of complaints as is your prerogative. They aren't going to change it.

Not to mention, putting Shadowkeeper in some easy achievement or as a MGP reward would devalue it more or less in the same way. The whole point of argument for it being a Blue Mage rewards is it fit thematically with Blue Mage tackling the Eden series and required actual effort. Making it a MGP reward doesn't exactly accomplish that

It has been a while since they did something like this.....last one was odin's horse wasn't it?

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Originally Posted by KitingGenbu

It has been a while since they did something like this.....last one was odin's horse wasn't it?

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Cruise Chaser.

I'm working on getting my morbol mount atm (half there!) and well, you really wouldn't need to grind for 100s of hours to get this or any other future blue mount. But yeah, it would have been really nice to have another mount behind doing blue mage content as it's a really different and fun way to play the game.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

Cruise Chaser.

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Yeah, said it was added about a couple of years go to the shop.

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

I think it's fine the way it is. This is nothing new. People are just unhappy they gotta pay is all.

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Nah, as a paying sub just like everyone else, the pay for mounts is turning to some F2P shit. This should have been a reward of some sort for in game not 30 bucks on the shop.

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Originally Posted by MsMisato

Nah, as a paying sub just like everyone else, the pay for mounts is turning to some F2P shit. This should have been a reward of some sort for in game not 30 bucks on the shop.

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Considering the mount is designed to be a paid product. We may not have gotten it at all if it was placed within the game. The quality of the mount is to attract people to purchase it. If it were a normal in-game mount, it'd be far less quality.

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

Considering the mount is designed to be a paid product. We may not have gotten it at all if it was placed within the game. The quality of the mount is to attract people to purchase it. If it were a normal in-game mount, it'd be far less quality.

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What a dumb take lmao

"they designed it to be on the shop so there's no way it could be in the game"

ok dude

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

What a dumb take lmao

"they designed it to be on the shop so there's no way it could be in the game"

ok dude

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It ain't a dumb take when the whole point is to attract you to buy it. But please keep taking that copium.

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

I think it's fine the way it is. This is nothing new. People are just unhappy they gotta pay is all.

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Yep, so true! If you want content, you gotta pay for it. $13/month is nothing in these trying times. Do you people really think that’s enough for Yoshida to pay his bills? He needs more. How about YOU try keeping the lights on with only $13 a month. Yeah, didn’t think so. Be grateful you’re getting any content at all. Me? I’m buying a mount for me and all of my friends. In fact, if I could tip with my sub, I would. FFXIV is the best game I’ve ever played, I play 10 hours a day and have never run out of content in over 13 years. I’ve cried so many times in the MSQ (my record was six whole times in the last patch) and Soken (RIP) is the best composer since Mozart. You all are just so ungrateful it’s pathetic. PAY UP!

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

Seems weird to plan to grind blue mage for hundreds of hours based on the possibility of an unknown and unreleased mount being a reward.

I was planning to continue leveling blue mage because I like blue mage.

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These people just play content for the drops these days, they don’t even care about the content. Me? I run content because I like it. There doesn’t need to be any reward at all. Besides, would people rather hundreds of hours of work in a video game for a mount or just an hours’ worth of real-life work? Obviously, we’d prefer the latter. Only one hour’s wage from moderating 4chan is enough to buy this mount from the store and I’m already superior to everyone else. Gameplay? Just for fun, guys!

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Yep, so true! If you want content, you gotta pay for it. $13/month is nothing in these trying times. Do you people really think that’s enough for Yoshida to pay his bills? He needs more. How about YOU try keeping the lights on with only $13 a month. Yeah, didn’t think so. Be grateful you’re getting any content at all. Me? I’m buying a mount for me and all of my friends. In fact, if I could tip with my sub, I would. FFXIV is the best game I’ve ever played, I play 10 hours a day and have never run out of content in over 13 years. I’ve cried so many times in the MSQ (my record was six whole times in the last patch) and Soken (RIP) is the best composer since Mozart. You all are just so ungrateful it’s pathetic. PAY UP!

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There is nothing wrong with being upset you have to pay for it. I'm just calling it out for what it is. This isn't about the mount being placed as BLU content in the game, it's about having to pay for it at all.