Bring back Emet-Selch

If you want to see more of Emet-Selch (Hades), whether it be in past, present, or future, reply “yes” and/or “like” this thread!! :)

Nope. He's bowed out and for good reason. Let the old man rest.

Keep the dead characters dead for real.

Well, I guess it's theoretically possible he could come back (I mean,

he's already returned twice following his defeat, both times thanks to the Azem crystal, and with Elidibus's time portal in the Crystal Tower on the First back to the Unsundered World being apparently stable, anything's possible).

But he's finally let go of his baggage and allowed himself to return to the Star, so let Mr Grumpy finally have his rest, no longer burdened by the weight of carrying the Ancients' legacy on his shoulders. (And that image at the end of the Flow music video was pretty telling, having him and Hyth laying in the Lifestream around Venat/Hydealyn with other now posthumous characters such as Minfilia and Papalymo).

He's passed on his legacy to the Warrior of Light, the posessor of the soul of his old friend, let the old man rest.

Emet-Selch has only been diminished in each of his post death apparitions.

And then 8UC Emet-selch comes jumping off the top turnbuckle of the First's Crystal Tower's basement wrestling arena!

Nah, he's been dead and brought back again (narratively) like 3 times. Let him stay that way, especially if the story moving forward is going to have less to do with the Ancients.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

And then 8UC Emet-selch comes jumping off the top turnbuckle of the First's Crystal Tower's basement wrestling arena!

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Here comes Venat with a steel chair!

I mean I love the man, but no he deserves his retirement rest and to float around the Aetherial Sea with Hythlodaeus for as long as he wants to. The man did his time and then some.

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Originally Posted by LyrisFrost

If you want to see more of Emet-Selch (Hades), whether it be in past, present, or future, reply “yes” and/or “like” this thread!! :)

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Hades as he was? I wouldn’t hate more time travel or a memory dive scenario kinda thing that shows us more Unsundered World and Team Azem hijinks.

Resurrecting him as Hades in present day? No.

Reincarnating him and us meeting that person? I think that’s highly possible and I’d probably like that. It also seems implied that at least Elidibus is going that route eventually with Pandemonium’s post credit scene, imo. Hades and Hyth following suit would make sense.

Tho Hades does make a big point of “wanting a sound rest”, with time dilation between shards and this void storyline with zeromus possibly lending itself to the barriers btwn the shards’ lifestreams being broken down more, I think it’s very possible to bring in the unsundered ancients’ reincarnations into the storyline while still letting him have his “rest”. Just wouldn’t think it would happen till way down the line. Like 9.0 at the earliest.

Na....they probably won't come back anytime soon and if they do, will be just subtle references...perhaps a child with weird talents like they did with ShB ending and Ardbert.

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Originally Posted by Elissar

Na....they probably won't come back anytime soon and if they do, will be just subtle references...perhaps a child with weird talents like they did with ShB ending and Ardbert.

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Except that child wasn't Ardbert as they have already stated in the 5.2 patch (you know the cutscene when Elidibert showed up and our character literally says thats not the real ardbert and Urianger as well as that moole dog confirm that our soul is still as dense as it was when he merged with us at the end of 5.0 and confirmed by dog mole in 5.1 compared to the other scions soul densities) that Ardbert's soul completely merged with ours and the child was born while ardbert was still roaming the world as a spirit.

On the subject of Emet .. nah let the man sleep...

Let the guy have his peace. Thanks to that memory lock device he's gonna have to deal with recurring memories of the unsundered world forever more but at least he can forget all the thousands of years since.

Bring back Emet-Selch? What, a fourth time?

Don't pay the same song that many times, the people who like it get bored and the people who don't like are REALLY not getting won over after a point.

They'll bring him back when the game is in the terminal phase of its life cycle and they need old fan favorite characters and storylines to get people to pay attention.

Trust me. I played FFXI.

Also, they'll probably put him in a million spin off things.

I was under the impression that the recurring underwater/bubbles motif was them being gradually purified by the lifestream. There are obviously plenty of opportunities in cross-overs. As for this game, give it some time. If we encounter him in the arc after this one as a grouchy child, then at least we'll know how much in-game time has been passing.

I hate him. <3

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

And then 8UC Emet-selch comes jumping off the top turnbuckle of the First's Crystal Tower's basement wrestling arena!

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Eight umbral calamity timeline expansion when?

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Originally Posted by Teah_Kaye

That's an interesting thing. Emet and Hythlodaeus should both logically have memories of Elpis permanently burned into their souls. Similar to how Hermes had dreams of Elpis as Amon, but possibly worse since they weren't sundered like he was and wouldn't have already reincarnated a bunch of times.

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Strong memories get burned into your soul. The events of Elpis shattered Hermes's view of the world. I doubt it had that effect on the other two.

I love Emet, so on some level I'm always happy at the prospect of more content involving him, but narratively speaking, he should probably at least get a decent break of a few years.

Now, the Pandaemonium cast, on the other hand? No such reservations! Bring them all back and put them all in my party right nowwwww, SE!

Emet-Selch is perhaps my favorite character in the game, but it is time for him to rest. Unless we delve more into the Ancients, I do not really see why he should come back. Its great when these character we love come back, but its always better when they do so to serve the story, not the other way around.

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Originally Posted by Teah_Kaye

That's an interesting thing. Emet and Hythlodaeus should both logically have memories of Elpis permanently burned into their souls. Similar to how Hermes had dreams of Elpis as Amon, but possibly worse since they weren't sundered like he was and wouldn't have already reincarnated a bunch of times.

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and don't forget that Hermes' fragments are all flitting around in their reflections, including, presumably, the first. Assuming of course he didn't get hit by the wave of light and turned into a sin eater obviously.

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Originally Posted by thegreatonemal

Strong memories get burned into your soul. The events of Elpis shattered Hermes's view of the world. I doubt it had that effect on the other two.

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Nah, they're going to have the memories from those few days scorched into them, they won't be as world shatteringly BAD for their ability to cope with reality but they're gonna have an impact.

This conversation is reminding me of one reason we do need Emet back. Or at least to have a story involving looking in to his time as Solas or something. I wanna find out what he "found a way" to do to Zenos that resulted in him having dreams of the Final Days.

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Originally Posted by Teah_Kaye

No, iirc Hermes (Amon) post-defeat in the Aitiascope in the cutscene before Asahi drags him into superhell said Kairos was what caused that to happen to him. It imprints the memories on your soul in the process of wiping them.

Cutscene #1, "Her Children, One and All":

https://i.gyazo.com/69ab3e6859ed04da...d88d9e482a.png

https://i.gyazo.com/4f1f820c0bbbbf18...0748cdc780.png

He used the same process to remove Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus' memories.

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Yes, the act of trying to get rid of those already strong memories, only succeeded in burning them more deeply into him. He says it right there in your screen shot. Strong memories stick with the soul. Hermes trying to erase those strong memories just made them stick more is what I was saying.

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

This conversation is reminding me of one reason we do need Emet back. Or at least to have a story involving looking in to his time as Solas or something. I wanna find out what he "found a way" to do to Zenos that resulted in him having dreams of the Final Days.

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There is still the matter of the allag cloning technology, that they just vaguely glanced over back in Stormblood. Imagine some remaining Ascian going inside such a clone and playing games with us. That is the stuff of nightmares.

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Originally Posted by thegreatonemal

Yes, the act of trying to get rid of those already strong memories, only succeeded in burning them more deeply into him. He says it right there in your screen shot. Strong memories stick with the soul. Hermes trying to erase those strong memories just made them stick more is what I was saying.

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The quote indicates that Kairos burns memories into a soul, but there is nothing in it to indicate that strong memories are saved regardless. Neither does it indicate that Kairos only does that to memories if they are already strong.

The closest evidence we have of other memories persisting is that characters are prone to being reminded of the Final Days by falling meteors, but even then they seem to describe the experience as triggering something they can almost but not quite remember.

Hermes is the only character (besides this unresolved business with Zenos) ever shown to have had specific and clear memories of a past life, while also being the only Kairos subject to have been reincarnated. There is no indication that he has naturally retained any memories outside of the Kairos-affected period.

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Originally Posted by SilversLyu

There is still the matter of the allag cloning technology, that they just vaguely glanced over back in Stormblood. Imagine some remaining Ascian going inside such a clone and playing games with us. That is the stuff of nightmares.

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Gaius destroyed all known cloning facilities, so they'd have to spring a new cloning facility out of the woodwork.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Gaius destroyed all known cloning facilities, so they'd have to spring a new cloning facility out of the woodwork.

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"known" does leave more than enough wiggle room, though, to be fair.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The quote indicates that Kairos burns memories into a soul, but there is nothing in it to indicate that strong memories are saved regardless. Neither does it indicate that Kairos only does that to memories if they are already strong.

The closest evidence we have of other memories persisting is that characters are prone to being reminded of the Final Days by falling meteors, but even then they seem to describe the experience as triggering something they can almost but not quite remember.

Hermes is the only character (besides this unresolved business with Zenos) ever shown to have had specific and clear memories of a past life, while also being the only Kairos subject to have been reincarnated. There is no indication that he has naturally retained any memories outside of the Kairos-affected period.

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Memories are a strongly tied to the soul as we discovered with bringing the scions back from the First. Kairos was designed to erase memories and outside of Hermes we're not shown anything to indicate that Kairos has that effect. In the same way strong memories can keep a soul from moving on we can probaly say that memories can function in the same way.

Also amon doesn't have clear memories of a past life, aside from the ones that reside in the Fandaniel crystal. Before he got that he does say "Night after night, the faceless multitude. The voiceless cries. Shards of shattered memories. But slowly the fog bangan to clear. This was Elpis and I...I was Hermes." Now that he's dead he was able to fully recall what happened

I feel like Emet and Hyth's soul-successors are going to have different kinds of responses to the situation to Amon, just because Hermes' memories were not great. Emet and Hyth's souls are gonna get 'walking around a pretty good paradise, taught a snake to fly, then a bird girl freaked out and said things that didn't really resonate with us', while Amon basically got the memories of a depressed person being told 'life is meaningless and everything dies' by a trusted source.

Those are gonna lead to different responses to those recurring dreams, even putting aside that Amon doesn't exactly seem like he was a bastion of mental health anyway.

EDIT: but all that's academic, because from both what we've seen of how long it takes for a soul to get recycled (chief pieces of evidence being 'Rhitatyn and Haurchefant are still in there' and 'according to Eden it took like eighty years for a soul to be reborn') says that we're not gonna find the souls of any of those three for a WHILE.

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Originally Posted by LyrisFrost

If you want to see more of Emet-Selch (Hades), whether it be in past, present, or future, reply “yes” and/or “like” this thread!! :)

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Well, right now it's 5/17,000,000

Bringing back Emet-Selch? It's just like Zenos to come back by some unlikely Deus Ex Machina through the magic of the scriptarium.

We like Darth Vader, but would it really be worth it to bring him back to life?

Emet-Selch belongs to the arc begun in ARR, and that cycle is now over, a new cycle begins.
What were you doing during Yoshi-P's talk, sleeping?


Emet-Selch left in such a perfect way, and I prefer to keep this good memory of him.
Would you like FFX-2? Who was only there to answer the cries of fans who didn't like FFX's open ending?

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Originally Posted by thegreatonemal

Memories are a strongly tied to the soul as we discovered with bringing the scions back from the First. Kairos was designed to erase memories and outside of Hermes we're not shown anything to indicate that Kairos has that effect. In the same way strong memories can keep a soul from moving on we can probaly say that memories can function in the same way.

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Not shown anything to indicate Kairos has which effect? If (as your sentence structure implies) you are saying that we're not shown other examples of it erasing memories, then that statement is easily disproved, so most likely you mean no other examples of burned-in memories emerging from reincarnated Kairos subjects. In that case, Hermes is the only example of it happening but also the only possible example of it occurring because all of the others known to have been subjected to it – Emet and Hyth – have not yet died and been reincarnated to test whether they also retain and dream of those memories.

What we do have is a lot of examples of people who have been reincarnated since the Final Days and were not Kairos subjects, and there is no widespread phenomenon of people having dreams and visions of their past lives. While that is not definitive proof against it ever happening, we don't have any proof in favour of it, and the game itself ascribes a different reason for Hermes' dream.

And if you have to preface something with "probably" then you're speculating. It's not fact.

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Originally Posted by thegreatonemal

Also amon doesn't have clear memories of a past life, aside from the ones that reside in the Fandaniel crystal. Before he got that he does say "Night after night, the faceless multitude. The voiceless cries. Shards of shattered memories. But slowly the fog bangan to clear. This was Elpis and I...I was Hermes." Now that he's dead he was able to fully recall what happened

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That quote from Hermes is entirely about the memory he retained because of Kairos – a recurring dream he had over and over until it made sense, and then he got implanted with the Ascian memories that completed the picture besides this one retained snapshot.

He outright says in the scene you are quoting ("Her Children, One and All", cutscene #1) that being granted the memories of Fandaniel that he knew his visions were "the memories of Hermes, that he himself erased using the power of Kairos". Not all the rest of his memories, just that one segment.

Logically the second-hand "memories of Fandaniel" he received upon being turned Ascian would contain Emet's altered memory of how he recruited Hermes and there was a mishap with the memory-erasing device, and Amon would realise he is clearly holding the missing piece of that puzzle.