I'm not sure how many people actually know how some of the anti crowd control abilities work in effect.
- Purify: cleanses most crowd control but LBs and Miracle of Nature. Once something gets cleansed, you get a further 5s of cc immunity out of it.
- Guard (used before being cced): prevents any cc to be applied to you unless it comes from a LB (RPR/DNC come to mind).
- Guard (used after being cced): cleanses everything that doesn't make you lose control over your character/abilities, meaning soft cc like bind, heavy, half asleep, etc.
- Aquaveil/Meikyo: cleanse anything that's purifiable, but do NOT grant cc immunity when active.
- Warden's Paean: cleanses anything that's purifiable, else grants cc immunity when active.
I do believe the tooltips ingame are completely unable to convey those subtleties to players and should be improved in order to be.
Special mention to the pull in of Salted Earth that cannot be prevented unless you're guarding already...
Anti crowd control tooltips must need be made clearer
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06-08-2023, 09:21 PMValenceAnti crowd control tooltips must need be made clearer
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06-08-2023, 10:16 PMElfidan
Yeah but it does clear WHM LB stun so that's not exactly right. I think the megaflare stun can be cleared too can't it? I'm all for better tool tips.
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06-09-2023, 12:00 AMTowa-Musawait, what? megaflare has a stun?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfidan
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06-09-2023, 02:17 AMValence
On top of it every cleaning ability in the game has different wordings as well, on top of being vague/nebulous. Its clear the translators don't know the specifics of what they actually do and how they behave.
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06-09-2023, 08:15 AMKathleen_This game in general has incredibly convoluted tooltips even in PvE, or just straight up wrong (Sole Survivor healing DRKs for their full health comes to mind). But Meikyo is a 3s Resilience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valence
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06-09-2023, 08:36 AMReinhardt_AzureheimMegaflare doesn't stun bro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfidan
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06-09-2023, 11:54 AMElfidan
That's my bad. I'm most likely just seeing it combo'd with WHM or GNB not that you would be able to see though.
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06-09-2023, 10:16 PMValenceI tried it many times, Meikyo doesn't prevent shit. It just cleanses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathleen_
I don't buy that the pve excuses pvp mediocrity in that regard, and tbh I do think that pve at least has a modicum of coherence and logic behind its phrasings. Meanwhile, compare pvp:
PURIFY
Removes Stun, Heavy, Bind, Silence, Half-asleep, Sleep, and Deep Freeze.
Grants Resilience upon successfully removing one of the aforementioned effects.
Resilience Effect: Nullifies status afflictions that can be removed by Purify
AQUAVEIL
Additional Effect: Nullifies one status affliction that can be removed by Purify
WARDEN'S
Removes one status affliction from self or target party member that can be removed by Purify. If a status affliction cannot be removed, creates a barrier that will nullify the next status affliction that can be removed by Purify.
MEIKYO
Meikyo Shisui Effect: Nullifies status afflictions that can be removed by Purify
I have a problem with the use of nullifying in all of those tooltips when they all do different things. "Nullifies" should be replaced by "Prevents". Aka, use "Removes" when it does remove something, and use "Prevents" when it does prevent something. Not that hard...
On top of it, some abilities like Aquaveil also use the same word in a similarly ambiguous phrasing, while in actuality Aquaveil doesn't prevent anything, it just cleanses something if you have it, for example. Same for Meikyo. -
06-10-2023, 01:32 AMPost
In English, they use 3 phrases:
Remove (makes a currently active debuff go away)
Nullify (ignores the application of any incoming debuff while associated BUFF is active)
Grants Immunity (Guard and Inner Release use this terminology for some reason, when they could stick to Nullify. Maybe it's because they want to make it more clear they're additionally immune to Knockback, Draw-in and Miracle off Nature).
First off, I think you're absolutely correct about WHM. I can't test right now, but I'm pretty sure Aquaveil is like Esuna and not like Warden's in pvp; it won't nullify incoming debuffs but must be used reactively to remove ones already applied to get its bonuses. They should 100% rewrite that tooltip, as it's the only one that doesn't follow their verbage logic and is plain wrong.
I can't check right now, but I'm pretty damn sure Guard doesn't remove any debuffs; what might give you that impression is that if you use it while "half-asleep", and that tics off, you'll be immune to the "sleep" application that follows automatically. If you Guard while bound, you're still bound. You cannot Guard while silenced.
Meikyo Shisui absolutely nullifies and does not remove, so its tooltip is correct. Test this dueling against any job with an on-demand CC. Once again, it will protect you from a following sleep if you use it while half-asleep.
BRD is the gold standard with its Warden's explanation.
I think "prevent" might be more clear verbage than "nullify" for many players, but it's a semantic argument at that point. Grant Immunity could be entirely replaced or used instead. -
06-10-2023, 11:33 PMValence
Yes Guard doesn't remove all debuffs, my mistake there. It removes half asleep (or the following sleep that happens).
I've also tried Meikyo several times in duelling before posting, so this is odd. It never did prevent anything for me.... Or maybe it was the specific thing I was trying to prevent? I used it against DRK's bind, I still got the bind every time like with aquaveil. Maybe I should test it out against another cc... -
06-11-2023, 12:56 AMOsmondI don’t what you are reading. The explanation is very clear what it is telling you. Also…….nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnno. I want the content to more easy guy/gals, please give it to me. I know what’s going to happen because it always happens. If SE do implement these perks, the same ppl WILL complain that status effects are useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valence
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06-11-2023, 01:33 AMValence
I have literally no idea what substance you're abusing and even less whatever your post was supposed to mean in the first place.
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06-11-2023, 11:44 AMOsmond
I know what your post is saying. It’ll take them a long time before they fix what those ability effects actually does, text correction or perhaps not at all. Been this way I guess since ARR. Ppl just roll with it and figure it out overtime.
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06-13-2023, 03:28 AMChiyeko
To be honest Purge really needs a rework with the amount of stun lock down that some class can feed off of it, and Miracle of Nature needs somewhat of a fix being the only poly morph move in the entire game by only 1 class.
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06-13-2023, 04:18 AMAbsurdity
They should probably also add the additional description to Purify: "Doesn't work half the time due to latency"
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06-13-2023, 04:21 AMElfidanNetcode* but yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurdity
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06-13-2023, 04:25 AMAbsurdityYeah it's mostly the netcode but also the weird server tick system this game uses and their interactions with latency. You get used to it in PvE but you can't really ever get used to your inputs not doing what they're supposed to do in PvP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfidan
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06-14-2023, 05:42 PMValence
That's not the sever tick (that is on a 2 + 11/12th seconds and works for eorzean time, MP/HP regen ticks, Healing over Time), but that's definitely tied to how the netcode works: client sends command > client latency > server acknowledges reception > server "prepares the skill" (snapshot) > server sends back confirmation to client while animation delays are ongoing > server "resolves" the command after an arbitrary fixed delay to match the animation delay.
Or something in that vein in any case.