SE please care about CHEATING & BOTS!!!

I have invested a lot of money in this game on multiple accounts. Most recently I purchased the immersive audio app. However, I am not able to immerse myself in the game due to you not taking action against rampant botting! On all the new servers, there are invisible bots killing all the quest monsters. They teleport all over the city (Gridania where I started and all the others) when they die and go back to botting.

In just under a half hour on the Seraph server, I was able to record all the following names teleport botting and killing quest monsters inside and outside the city respectively (I created a /say <t> macro and target them as they appear and press it to say their name so I can then copy it into the clunky reporting interface). These bots repeatedly teleport back to the city when they die, so their names came up many times over the half hour. I edited the duplicates:

Edited: SE bans people reporting bots not the actual bots!

Just stand by the city gate south of the Adventure Guild in Gridania to see this, or go outside there and look at the groups of quest mobs dying to invisible bots!

I have taken time out of my life to manually report all these cheaters ruining the game experience for legit customers. However as a MULTI BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY I feel it is inexcusable that you can't even invest in ONE MINIMUM WAGE GM to monitor new servers for this disgusting abuse. It is literally ruining the game and right now it is a very bad look for SE because IF you actually do anything about it (which I have no confidence you do) it certainly isn't improving the experience of your customers who have to see this.

With the content drought and lack of instanced housing after ten years, it certainly seems like you have plenty of time to make a little effort to actually do something about this. I expect better.

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Originally Posted by Tsukatsi

I have invested a lot of money in this game on multiple accounts. Most recently I purchased the immersive audio app. However, I am not able to immerse myself in the game due to you not taking action against rampant botting!

On all the new servers, there are invisible bots killing all the quest monsters. They teleport all over the city (Gridania where I started and all the others) when they die and go back to botting.

In just under a half hour on the Seraph server, I was able to record all the following names teleport botting and killing quest monsters inside and outside the city respectively (I created a /say <t> macro and target them as they appear and press it to say their name so I can then copy it into the clunky reporting interface). These bots repeatedly teleport back to the city when they die, so their names came up many times over the half hour. I edited the duplicates:

Guruervmols Meshango
Lsuyeffeno Bulilyo
Ndggxobinhqf Dulado
Rdsfhjispeq Aroneli
Hbpvhacvqn Mabalbi
Sd Dumono
Pj Bulimicha
Pndoyobuisg Koglka
Kampas Honpas
Gollado Potolado
Bsiyrtrhlpm Tunngi
Nqgjujgsgup Kogwazi
Mx Buppo
Iv Gunan
Dpokpgtnqkw Halbi
Nacalkrolnn Arolugi
Tetan Thatan

I have taken time out of my life to manually report all these cheaters ruining the game experience for legit customers. However as a MULTI BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY I feel it is inexcusable that you can't even invest in ONE MINIMUM WAGE GM to monitor new servers for this disgusting abuse. It is literally ruining the game and right now it is a very bad look for SE because IF you actually do anything about it (which I have no confidence you do) it certainly isn't improving the experience of your customers who have to see this.

With the content drought and lack of instanced housing after ten years, it certainly seems like you have plenty of time to make a little effort to actually do something about this. I expect better.

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there's literally flying bots on all worlds, none excluded, you see them tping in uldah gridania and limsa and even outside of these areas, the customer service for this game and their so called "task force" are both an absolute joke, it's been for months and months if not years that these bots are doing that, on top of that, you have those gil sellers trading people in /busy mode (usually low levels) in major cities and then teleporting away magically once they are done trading.

It's ok, maybe we just need to create a gofundme so they can get some actual people to work on banning bots/hackers, since apparently they are a small indie company

PS : if I was you I would remove the names, they will actually ban you for naming and shaming, it already happened multiple times, even tho they know those people are just bots, they will ban you anyway, because hey, they cant ban the bots themselves but they'll gladly ban the players trying to call them out

It won't happen. For some reason banning people who float in spider clusters under the city all day every day is too hard.
God help you for mentioning them by name though. The cops are already on their way.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

PS : if I was you I would remove the names, they will actually ban you for naming and shaming, it already happened multiple times, even tho they know those people are just bots, they will ban you anyway, because hey, they cant ban the bots themselves but they'll gladly ban the players trying to call them out

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The naming and shaming rule isn't without reason. It wouldn't be hard to slip in other people's names with the bots in the hopes of seeing something happening to them or at worst case stirring up a witch hunt against them. It's just a minor precaution and it exists on reddit and even some of the bigger FFXIV discords.

Bots are a problem in every single MMO, they're not going anywhere no matter how many GM's you pay. For every bot that will get banned 3 more will just take its place, and you need evidence of them being bots. Takes more effort than this small indie dev is willing to invest into it.

if SE really cared about doing anything, they should start banning people who buy gil

the bots will always return as long as their is a real money market for their product. if SE started banning the buyers of said product, and made it public they were doing so, that market would begin to dry up. most people would not want to lose their account.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

if SE really cared about doing anything, they should start banning people who buy gil

the bots will always return as long as their is a real money market for their product. if SE started banning the buyers of said product, and made it public they were doing so, that market would begin to dry up. most people would not want to lose their account.

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And this is the truth of the matter.

If Square Enix took out the end consumer, Bots would disappear overnight because people are too scared to lose their accounts.

But then we all know half the RP community would be banned overnight, so it wont happen, cant lose those subs!

SE really doesnt see RMT as a big issue. It's not an instant perma ban if you get caught doing it because both buyer and seller accounts have to pay the monthly sub anyway and any playtime beyond that isnt monetized. Seems more of a win-win scenario for SE and the RMT sellers.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

Bots are a problem in every single MMO, they're not going anywhere no matter how many GM's you pay. For every bot that will get banned 3 more will just take its place, and you need evidence of them being bots. Takes more effort than this small indie dev is willing to invest into it.

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And they're so willing. The reality is that a lot of people in every MMO buy gold, and if they can't purchase it, they leave. If they leave, that's bad for business, which means gold sellers equal good for the company. Gold buyers are like plugin users, on the surface, everybody condemns them, but behind the scenes, well, there's a different picture.

I love their weekly report on bans, which shows they ban a bunch of rmt accounts, and then shows they ban between 1-8 players for using bots that are non RMT related, yet when you zone into limsa you will fall over 10 crafting bots per zone per server, not counting the 100s who are obviously fate botting and the list goes on.

Lets have a look at the current one

Time Period: May 18, 2023 to May 24, 2023

・Participation in RMT/prohibited activities
　・Accounts terminated: 2,147
　・Accounts temporarily suspended: 32

・Botting activity (excluding RMT vendors)
　・Accounts terminated: 8
　・Accounts temporarily suspended: 7
*Botting activity by RMT vendors has been included under "Participation in RMT/prohibited activities.

SE why do you report a number that you know is absolutely hilarious, remove the number and say you do "something" because like this all you do is show ignorance to botting or do you really believe out of ALL reports you got only those were real?

Right now is a prime moment to clap those with gathering bots jumping from the new nodes 24/7, but it is what it is.

I'm more impressed at how bold people are to cheat in PvP and are actually getting away with it.

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Originally Posted by Remish

I'm more impressed at how bold people are to chest in PvP and are actually getting away with it.

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It took massive community effort in the first two Seasons to get wintraders off the top 100 list and they only got served temp bans. I wouldn't be surprised if there's still decent amount floating around as the amount of evidence and reports from multiple sources required is absolutely massive. Also it took weeks for anything to happen and many a game were ruined in meantime.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone just wintraded hard during one of the shorter seasons since they are very dead and got top 1 uncontested.

You'd have to assume that Square cared about pvp, and the integrity of PvP if they were going to seriously solve wintrading. It's been made clear through every update to PvP that they treat it as a "minigame". The changes they could make to PvP to make it more fun to play, more responsive, more rewarding, and ultimately more competitive are never implemented. Theres no reason to dedicate hours of your life inhaling cheeto dust and sweat playing ranked, unless you want a cool glowy re-used asset, and what motivation do you have, when its clear that the top 100 are likely either A; Wintrading, or B; Using third party programs to help them? No incentive for a lot of us to play, and Square is okay with that.

SE will never stop bots children. It is not possible. Bots make people money. As long as people spend money to buy gold bots will always exist. SE will ban bots. RMT will create more. This cycle will never end. There is nothing to get upset about. It is beyond your control and always will be.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

SE will never stop bots children. It is not possible. Bots make people money. As long as people spend money to buy gold bots will always exist. SE will ban bots. RMT will create more. This cycle will never end. There is nothing to get upset about. It is beyond your control and always will be.

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this is why they need to ban the buyers. some people will always chance it and buy, but a majority will stop if they could lose their account

the cycle will be there sure, but SE could make the issue less rampant by removing the customers. less customers means less money to run the bots which means less bots. my guess is maybe the issue isnt as rampant on Japanese servers... thats the only explanation

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Originally Posted by ThaCa

It took massive community effort in the first two Seasons to get wintraders off the top 100 list and they only got served temp bans. I wouldn't be surprised if there's still decent amount floating around as the amount of evidence and reports from multiple sources required is absolutely massive. Also it took weeks for anything to happen and many a game were ruined in meantime.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone just wintraded hard during one of the shorter seasons since they are very dead and got top 1 uncontested.

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I mean, that bill guy from Marilith (Now name changed) that was top 10 NA for achievements was caught red handed paying real money for ultimate clears from chinese QQ sellers, and even using speed hacks in PVP ON VIDEO and is still not banned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8spqIpQBfM

If they actually tried they could keep the level-capped DoL/H bots in check because it takes a significant amount of time for them to get re-established since they're at minimum having to grind through the EW MSQ and level their desired DoL/H jobs from 1-90.

After spending months/years trying and failing to get the same bot collectives purged, I just don't even bother anymore, though.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

I mean, that bill guy from Marilith (Now name changed) that was top 10 NA for achievements was caught red handed paying real money for ultimate clears from chinese QQ sellers, and even using speed hacks in PVP ON VIDEO and is still not banned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8spqIpQBfM

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He has been reported by many, many people over the course of 2-3 years and nothing has happened to him. Everyone with two braincells knew he was botting fishing, gathering, deep dungeons, ultimates (streamed with AUTO-ROTATION on). He was also wintrading before Feast was removed.

He got caught speedhacking ffs!

I don't know why SE won't even act against people like this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

if SE really cared about doing anything, they should start banning people who buy gil

the bots will always return as long as their is a real money market for their product. if SE started banning the buyers of said product, and made it public they were doing so, that market would begin to dry up. most people would not want to lose their account.

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SoE did this back in Everquests (1)'s days Not only did they ban the players whom were caught buying gold they even SUED a number of them as they actually had been "evil" Enough to add to they ToS that gold buy would be seen at Copy right violation and allowing them sue you for what you had paid AND attorney fees. ANNND they actually got away with it as the ToS IS a legally binding Document and people HAVE to agree to it in order to play :P Back then Gold buy/selling was something you were you had to know a guy whom knew a guy that had a guy that knew a guy that could get you incontact with a seller. Then WoW arrived (Yess the old It's all blizzards fault well in this case IT IS!) And Gold sellers EXPLODED and became such a lucrative business that it spread to all new MMO's to the point were companies have given up on combatting it.

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Originally Posted by Valoria3

SoE did this back in Everquests (1)'s days Not only did they ban the players whom were caught buying gold they even SUED a number of them as they actually had been "evil" Enough to add to they ToS that gold buy would be seen at Copy right violation and allowing them sue you for what you had paid AND attorney fees. ANNND they actually got away with it as the ToS IS a legally binding Document and people HAVE to agree to it in order to play :P Back then Gold buy/selling was something you were you had to know a guy whom knew a guy that had a guy that knew a guy that could get you incontact with a seller. Then WoW arrived (Yess the old It's all blizzards fault well in this case IT IS!) And Gold sellers EXPLODED and became such a lucrative business that it spread to all new MMO's to the point were companies have given up on combatting it.

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from a player perspective, I know even a "vacation" worked well enough to put the fear of losing the account in to me. Years ago in Vanguard my partner suggested I buy gold so they could enjoy the game more. being young and stupid I did, had a nice chat with a GM, admitted sheepishly thats what I did and was out of the game for 5 days. so from experience, assuming people havent changed that much, it was a valuable learning experience. I seriously think that if they brought that back, it would make a difference. if the end game is really house, glam etc, the fear of losing all of it, would be incentive not to.

SE will clearly never address the problem, and new solutions are needed. Banning buyers would be a good step forward.

Banning the sites themselves as they pop up could work too. Technically, RMT sites are conducting illegal activity from a civil perspective. Section 3.18 of the ICANN agreement requires registrars to register an 'abuse' email address or form. These can be found from the domain's whois record, for example:

https://www.godaddy.com/whois/result...main=5gold.com

From that example, the abuse email would be 'abuse@godaddy.com' or the form at: https://www.godaddy.com/help/reporting-abuse-27154

Examples of the types of abuse an RMT site conducts includes Copyright Infringement (email: copyrightcomplaints@godaddy.com), Trademark Abuse (email: trademarkclaims@godaddy.com) and illegal activity (violation of TOS, email: abuse@godaddy.com).

Even though we do not own the trademark, these websites clearly violate the trademark and copyright rules outlined by Square-Enix: https://support.na.square-enix.com/r...5382&tag=authc

Specifically, RMT sites violate the following: "You may not use the Materials for any sales or commercial use, meaning you cannot receive license fees or advertising revenue, except as part of the partner programs operated by YouTube, Twitch, or similar programs"

Finally, RMT sites will just register new domains, if they lose their domains through ICANN policies. However, RMT companies rely heavily on trust, and the persistence of their domain name is an important ingredient in that trust. RMT buyers will have a tougher time finding good, trustworthy RMT sites if their domain names change every few weeks.

(I would register these complaints with registrars and the ICANN myself, but I'm quitting FF14 in 4 days.)

I ended up typing a letter, which can be submitted here: https://support.na.square-enix.com/c...382&la=1&fty=1

Dear Square-Enix Legal,

I am a player of FFXIV and other products. My experience, and the experience of many others, is that gil or gold sellers (Real Money Trading, RMT) significantly disrupt the experience of your legitimate customers, like myself. Square-Enix's technical approach to this problem through the Special Task Force (STF) is very limited in its ability to identify and curtail RMT on its platforms.

I am emailing with a few suggestions that Square-Enix’s litigation department might make to more effectively address this problem. I believe that Square-Enix has a basis for legal action for at least 3 reasons:

1. Trademark Infringement. The trademark of ‘Final Fantasy XIV’, ‘Final Fantasy 14’, ‘FFXIV’ and ‘FF14’ are used in violation of your Materials Usage License by “us[ing] the Materials for any sales or commercial use, meaning you cannot receive license fees or advertising revenue.”

2. Copyright Infringement

3. Violation of Terms of Service (TOS). The activity of RMT is arguably causing material damages to Square-Enix through the loss of subscribers, like myself, and it could be the basis for civil litigation.

Considering the above violations, I suggest the following:

A. Sending Cease & Desist letters to the contacts of gil selling websites. The effectiveness of this approach is likely going to be limited since many of these companies are based in countries outside the United States.

B. Contacting US-based third party service vendors about the Trademark Infringement or other activities. Many third parties have policies against trademark violations and other illegal activities.

1. godaddy.com (US based registrar): https://www.godaddy.com/legal/agreem...t-infringement

2. namecheap.com (US based registrar): https://www.namecheap.com/legal/gene...mark-policies/

3. verisign.com (US based registrar): Email 'info@verisign-grs.com’ or https://www.verisign.com/en_US/compa...se/index.xhtml

4. cloudflare.com (CDN service): https://developers.cloudflare.com/fu.../report-abuse/

5. MasterCard (payment): https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/visi...cy-policy.html

6. Visa (payment): https://usa.visa.com/legal/report-brand-abuse.html

7. American Express (payment): https://www.americanexpress.com/cont...ct%202011w.pdf

8. Discover (payment): https://www.discover.com/company/our...ode-of-ethics/

9. PayPal (payment): https://www.paypal.com/us/legalhub/infringementrpt-full

10. Google Pay (payment): https://support.google.com/adspolicy.../2562124?hl=en


11. Intermediary secure payment services may be compelled to disallow RMT if their payment sources (see above) may be removed. These include ‘McAfee Secure’, ‘Privacy Safe’ and ‘Business Verified’


C. Contacting the ICANN for cases in which Square-Enix properties are used in the URLs. https://www.icann.org/resources/page...-2017-06-20-en

I have never used one of these RMT services. Based on a Google search, the following RMT companies and websites violate Square-Enix’s properties:

(list of websites)

Additionally, I would ask Square-Enix to more vigilantly litigate RMT companies since the “employees” that are used to accrue virtual assets are either poorly compensated or not compensated at all. It has been known for a long time that RMT promotes human rights abuses.

(See Guardian 'China used prisoners in lucrative internet gaming work')

Hey, you put more effort into this that SE does into fighting bots, so...well done.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

It won't happen. For some reason banning people who float in spider clusters under the city all day every day is too hard.
God help you for mentioning them by name though. The cops are already on their way.

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Bot banning happens generally in waves as to not tip off the bot makers to what bit of their script the devs can detect

Combatting botting is not as easy as it sounds and the devs in any game not just FFXIV are always one step minimum behjnd

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

there's literally flying bots on all worlds, none excluded, you see them tping in uldah gridania and limsa and even outside of these areas, the customer service for this game and their so called "task force" are both an absolute joke, it's been for months and months if not years that these bots are doing that, on top of that, you have those gil sellers trading people in /busy mode (usually low levels) in major cities and then teleporting away magically once they are done trading.

It's ok, maybe we just need to create a gofundme so they can get some actual people to work on banning bots/hackers, since apparently they are a small indie company

PS : if I was you I would remove the names, they will actually ban you for naming and shaming, it already happened multiple times, even tho they know those people are just bots, they will ban you anyway, because hey, they cant ban the bots themselves but they'll gladly ban the players trying to call them out

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Just like every other MMO out there. Ban a bot, they just make a new one (most of those are stolen accounts so it's no loss to the botter.) Implement code to stop botters, they adjust to it within hours. It's something that has plagued MMOs since the early days of Everquest (probably even before that). Basically it's a part of the genre.

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Originally Posted by DragonFlyy

Just like every other MMO out there. Ban a bot, they just make a new one (most of those are stolen accounts so it's no loss to the botter.) Implement code to stop botters, they adjust to it within hours. It's something that has plagued MMOs since the early days of Everquest (probably even before that). Basically it's a part of the genre.

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screw coding to stop the bots, we all know that will never work.

ban the buyers. a persons account has sentimental value, sunk cost value, time and effort value, of course bots make more bots, because its lucrative. a personal account... is far less throw away. come down hard on the buyers and the market for the bot generated gil... dries up

the only way top decrease the bots.. is to decrease the market they serve... no extra code needed at all

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DragonFlyy

Just like every other MMO out there. Ban a bot, they just make a new one (most of those are stolen accounts so it's no loss to the botter.) Implement code to stop botters, they adjust to it within hours. It's something that has plagued MMOs since the early days of Everquest (probably even before that). Basically it's a part of the genre.

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XIV has enough progression walls in place that it's comparatively difficult to get a meaningful bot of any sort up and running in the first place which makes keeping them in check easier.

The endgame DoH/L bots have to buy both a job and story skip then grind through the entire EW MSQ just to have access to what they want to farm, then they still need to level their non-combat jobs to an extent that lets them farm relevant items.

The only ones I'd actually consider unassailable are the mentioned ARR teleport bots because they rely on sheer numbers to actually get any significant gains.

Surely all gil sold has been laundered before it appears in the hands of the buyer, thus there is no way to litigate it.

Just look to the venues if you want to see gil laundering in action.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

Just look to the venues if you want to see gil laundering in action.

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How the hell is a venue laundering gil ? I'd love to know, I barely ever go to venues, but I have friends that have venues and I am sure they would love to know too how it's gil laundering.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

How the hell is a venue laundering gil ? I'd love to know, I barely ever go to venues, but I have friends that have venues and I am sure they would love to know too how it's gil laundering.

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Player auctions are often used to launder gil, and I've seen it numerous times.

It's not uncommon for people to sell for 100mil+. There are instances where its legitimate, and they're offering a valuable service (art, photography, Savage/Ult clears, ect.) Then there are RMT traders mixed in.

It's typically used in a few instances. Private player RMT transactions, and Private player to RMT vendor. A lot of venues will not tolerate RMT laundering it they're made aware of it, just like with housing resales. But I've been in enough staff chats to know that there are a certain few venues who are well aware of this going on, and do not care.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Archeron

Player auctions are often used to launder gil, and I've seen it numerous times.

It's not uncommon for people to sell for 100mil+. There are instances where its legitimate, and they're offering a valuable service (art, photography, Savage/Ult clears, ect.) Then there are RMT traders mixed in.

It's typically used in a few instances. Private player RMT transactions, and Private player to RMT vendor. A lot of venues will not tolerate RMT laundering it they're made aware of it, just like with housing resales. But I've been in enough staff chats to know that there are a certain few venues who are well aware of this going on, and do not care.

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I can vouch this is indeed a thing. I have seen it firsthand. It might not be widespread, but it does happen in some corners.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Archeron

Player auctions are often used to launder gil, and I've seen it numerous times.

It's not uncommon for people to sell for 100mil+. There are instances where its legitimate, and they're offering a valuable service (art, photography, Savage/Ult clears, ect.) Then there are RMT traders mixed in.

It's typically used in a few instances. Private player RMT transactions, and Private player to RMT vendor. A lot of venues will not tolerate RMT laundering it they're made aware of it, just like with housing resales. But I've been in enough staff chats to know that there are a certain few venues who are well aware of this going on, and do not care.

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I'm confused by what you mean by player auctions and I am actually being genuine, if you mean gposes and savage clears all that stuff yeah there is a lot of stuff going on with that (hell even in PF), I dont know about the RMT part though but then again I am not involved in that stuff so I wouldnt know, I believe you, I am just not involved in any of those as I dont do much content (at least challenging content) and I am not into gpose so

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

I'm confused by what you mean by player auctions and I am actually being genuine, if you mean gposes and savage clears all that stuff yeah there is a lot of stuff going on with that (hell even in PF), I dont know about the RMT part though but then again I am not involved in that stuff so I wouldnt know, I believe you, I am just not involved in any of those as I dont do much content (at least challenging content) and I am not into gpose so

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Some venues sell players 'time', this was quite prevalent on large servers like Tonberry.

I have seen players sell from anywhere between 10m and 500m.

The upper end of the market that run these auctions launder gil through the player sales, as to make it seem 'legit' when they hand off the gil to the buyer (The gil buyer is the person up for auction), and it is always the FC that runs the establishment that buys these people out.

As stated above.

It's impossible to distinguish them from legitimate sales sometimes, but anywhere upwards of 100m starts to get suspicious, and I've DM'd plenty of people who've sold for that much who straight up just tell me it was RMT.

If square was to investigate any of these people they'd struggle to find conclusive evidence of RMT as the conversations all take place on discord.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Some venues sell players 'time', this was quite prevalent on large servers like Tonberry.

I have seen players sell from anywhere between 10m and 500m.

The upper end of the market that run these auctions launder gil through the player sales, as to make it seem 'legit' when they hand off the gil to the buyer (The gil buyer is the person up for auction), and it is always the FC that runs the establishment that buys these people out.

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What does it mean though, is there like ERP behind it or? What do you buy the person for ?

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

What does it mean though, is there like ERP behind it or? What do you buy the person for ?

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You literally buy the person to provide a service. ERP, Savage clears, Ultimate clears, Gposing, or they'll make art of your character. Thats the intended point of player auctions.

The RMT buyer will pretend to offer these services, and usually 2 people will just bid them up to the gil that they are purchasing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Archeron

You literally buy the person to provide a service. ERP, Savage clears, Ultimate clears, Gposing, or they'll make art of your character. Thats the intended point of player auctions.

The RMT buyer will pretend to offer these services, and usually 2 people will just bid them up to the gil that they are purchasing.

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Makes sense yeah, thank you for explaining, didnt really understand it that way, thought you meant like "legit" paying for ERP session with no RMT intent behind it

all botters and erp modders should be perma banned