Christmas in May

So many things I and others have been asking for have been added. And so many things we complain about saw some adjustments. Merry Christmas everyone!

Aside from the WAR FL nerf, I find the patch to be pretty agreeable.

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

So many things I and others have been asking for have been added. And so many things we complain about saw some adjustments. Merry Christmas everyone!

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That sarcasm?

Dragoon overall getting buffed was unneeded though, they were already one of the best jobs.

Also kuzushi buff meaning sam basically is invuln for 4 sec now where you can't touch them instead of 3, that's not what sam needs at all, just means even easier to cheese in fl, yet still meh in cc.

Chainsaw feels ... like having to waste analysis now to get just 12k for burst combo when they're above 50% with either stun or drill is meh.
The <50% thing only really matters in FL, in cc if you <50% from the stun you dead anyway, might aswell save it for the drill to hit someone else with after, which means nothing changed with chainsaw being a low prio for analysis since it now has the same prob as nin lb, if they heal before chainsaw hit registers you don't get the added potency.

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Originally Posted by Esmoire

Aside from the WAR FL nerf, I find the patch to be pretty agreeable.

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I agree that WAR didn't really need any adjustment and it seems ridiculous that they were touched at all.

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Originally Posted by Llynethil

Dragoon overall getting buffed was unneeded though, they were already one of the best jobs.

Also kuzushi buff meaning sam basically is invuln for 4 sec now where you can't touch them instead of 3, that's not what sam needs at all, just means even easier to cheese in fl, yet still meh in cc.

Chainsaw feels ... like having to waste analysis now to get just 12k for burst combo when they're above 50% with either stun or drill is meh.
The <50% thing only really matters in FL, in cc if you <50% from the stun you dead anyway, might aswell save it for the drill to hit someone else with after, which means nothing changed with chainsaw being a low prio for analysis since it now has the same prob as nin lb, if they heal before chainsaw hit registers you don't get the added potency.

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Dragoon is another job I am puzzled about them touching as it doesn't really need anything. I would love if the markers were color coated but that is my only change I would make.

While I still don't like the nature of Zan I do feel like the Kuzushi change is a positive one because there was this weird sometimes thing with it where it didn't count, and you had to play around it weirdly as a SAM. So I choose to take that as a win.

Using analysis on chainsaw was always a bad choice it just got made a lot because people are spiteful and don't mind gambling terrible odds. Cleaving with chainsaw was always the play.

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Originally Posted by BRVV

That sarcasm?

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Not at all.
We get weapons next season that are upgrades of the Hellhound ones which we asked for repeatedly on this forum.
They made the HUD for FL an actual HUD which is probably the second worst thing outside gameplay losing only to the lack of an M key on most players keyboards.
They gave RPR another cleave to follow it's CC cleave which feels good.
MNK is getting it burst sped up which is huge. at the end of the day I would always take a quicker phantom rush over a little more dps on enlightenment.
NIN is finally getting a meaningful adjustment to it's LB which is a step in the right direction. Bunshin is no longer just always up.
The limiting on BRD silence range is huge for everyone. No more max range interaction with no potential rebuttal.
All in all some good changes and more of them than the questionable ones.

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

Not at all.

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Great that you have fun :)
I am very hesitant about any changes. When it comes to PVP i fear they introduce more bugs like the Pala-Cover-Onsal fiasko. So my excitement is pretty limited but more power to you.

Well as usual wait and see. That's pretty much the tagline for most of FF's patches.

DRG has been more nerfed than buffed, since it's the LB that took the hit.

The kuzushi extension is the dumbest thing i've read in a while.

The ninja nerfs are gonna kill the job in CC.

I like the idea behind the chainsaw change but as said above, it's still not worth analyzing it in CC.

Nocturne is the thing that truly puzzles me though, this is a nerf to a job that really didn't need it.

I don't know. The WAR nerf bothers me a bit. Kuzushi extension makes zero sense to me. I am indifferent to the changes to ninja. The biggest thing that annoys me is that one of the actual major problem children for FL, escaped relatively untouched. DRK caught a super mild nerf that also slapped WAR who has seen two nerfs in a row now, and none of DRK's actions COUGHCOUGHSALTEDEARTHCOUGHCOUGH were addressed at all. This patch was...weird to me. Oh yeah, and MoN is still a thing. So...weeeee.

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Originally Posted by Valence

DRG has been more nerfed than buffed, since it's the LB that took the hit.

The kuzushi extension is the dumbest thing i've read in a while.

The ninja nerfs are gonna kill the job in CC.

I like the idea behind the chainsaw change but as said above, it's still not worth analyzing it in CC.

Nocturne is the thing that truly puzzles me though, this is a nerf to a job that really didn't need it.

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LB was just a bonus, they were always super bursty and they just buffed their burst. The LB nerf wont even be noticeable.

One great thing I learned about new chainsaw is it works on nodes so get many mch in new shatter and you secure tons of points for your team, just bh2 I did 34k with chainsaw.

DRG was buffed for newbies but nerfed for skilled players.

As a newbie, you can now have a decently effective point blank Wyrmwynd thrust.

As a skilled player, being able to land your LB on the entire party is less rewarding now.

I'm starting to notice that with these recent patches that fall damage is becoming less of a thing now.

If Astragalos and Secure gets reworked someday I wouldn't be surprised if the overall map height was massively reduced to match what current maps we already have to play with.

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

The limiting on BRD silence range is huge for everyone. No more max range interaction with no potential rebuttal.
All in all some good changes and more of them than the questionable ones.

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Except they left RDM silence alone, except for universal reduction to 2 secs. Their silence is still 25 yalms, hits everyone along the line of that 25 yalms for 8000 potency and silencing them. And it has the same 20 sec cooldown as BRD silence. Whereas BRD silence, prior to the patch, only hit a single target for 2000 potency; now, it does 0 damage. RDM has more defensive measures than BRD, so they can survive better getting in close, whereas BRD just instantly melts for getting within 15 yalms. Further, BRD wants to be outside 15 yalms when attacking a target because we do less substantially damage, otherwise. Yet, now, if we aren’t closer, putting us in mortal danger, we can’t use the silence, which triggered a significant burst skill, Pitch Perfect. We can still trigger it off Warden's Paean, but we only get the single use instead of the double use, and Warden's Paean has a longer cooldown. So, basically, bard is now put between a rock and hard place with no ability to survive either. It's a major nerf to a class that really did not need to be nerfed. So, we lost damage for having to get closer because our main spam (Powerful Shot, loses 2000 potency in close range) has an inherent damage reduction based on being close, lost damage for staying back because we lose a trigger for our burst (can only do Pitch Perfect half as often, which is 8000 potency, if you are more than 15 yalms away, and reduces to 4000 as you get closer), lost damage because Silent Nocturne now inherently does 0 damage. Bard is reduced to just a song totem standing in the back.

They did at least boost Apex Arrow to 8000 potency, up from 6000, before. So, maybe that’s the balance. Regardless, the class, in PvP, is specifically designed to fight from a distance. Yet, SE added this limiting shackle that asks the class to play close, in direct contradiction to the rest of the class's design. Just does not seem well thought out to me.

Bard is still good, but silence being 15y but also having reduced dmg the closer you are is pretty dumb design for sure now.

Well with RDM you are really most deadly in melee range, and you will generally launch yourself in where other melee can respond to your actions. The major issue with BRD is the support role it takes. With all it's attacks except for repelling shot being ranged you can really synchronize on a target without much fear of being counter focused. Now you would need to get closer which is fair, but you could always repelling shot back out afterwards to preserve dps. I think people really put a lot more fear into RDM at the beginning of the rework because we didn't fully grasp all the interactions.

I have mixed feelings about fall damage/environmental kills. It's often touted as a show of skill but if you analyze situations it's more often a case of misfortune. I would love to see Astragalos return as I never got to play it and it's modeled in one of my favorite zones of all time. I have had enough secure for an entire lifetime though.

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

Well with RDM you are really most deadly in melee range, and you will generally launch yourself in where other melee can respond to your actions. The major issue with BRD is the support role it takes. With all it's attacks except for repelling shot being ranged you can really synchronize on a target without much fear of being counter focused. Now you would need to get closer which is fair, but you could always repelling shot back out afterwards to preserve dps. I think people really put a lot more fear into RDM at the beginning of the rework because we didn't fully grasp all the interactions.

I have mixed feelings about fall damage/environmental kills. It's often touted as a show of skill but if you analyze situations it's more often a case of misfortune. I would love to see Astragalos return as I never got to play it and it's modeled in one of my favorite zones of all time. I have had enough secure for an entire lifetime though.

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Repelling Shot is a 10 yalm range. So, using that requires you to get even closer, and it only jumps you back 10 yalms. So, the best you could do with it is 20 yalms, which is still in range of melee's gap closers and melee's ranged attacks. A bard at 15 yalms or less simply dies, because he is a known easy kill target lacking any real defense.

Maybe that's just bad luck because 0 -> Crystal twice on BRD I never just got melted and frequently entered melee for various reasons. But time will tell.

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

So many things I and others have been asking for have been added. And so many things we complain about saw some adjustments. Merry Christmas everyone!

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we finally have everybody able to murder each other!! everybody is squishy again!!

Kind of...
It's some steps in the right direction at least. xD

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

Maybe that's just bad luck because 0 -> Crystal twice on BRD I never just got melted and frequently entered melee for various reasons. But time will tell.

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It is true, you don’t get melted as easily in CC, if you play well, but that's cause there are far fewer enemies in that case. However, in FL, yes, you melt like butter in a blast furnace if you try to fight at 15 yalms or less on bard. Even worse, now that they've dropped the DR.

Yeah but nobody should really be running around alone in FL either. I can't really speak to being squishy there either. It's probably just a difference of play group and play style.

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

Yeah but nobody should really be running around alone in FL either. I can't really speak to being squishy there either. It's probably just a difference of play group and play style.

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Not talking about running around solo (which is an extremely bad idea for a bard to do, imo). However, even with a large group, getting within 15 yalms of the battle-front is very dangerous for bard. There are times you find yourself within that range, cause that’s just the nature of battle, but you generally don’t want to just hangout within that range. You want to get out of that 15 yalm circle as fast as possible.

When you think about it, the silence nerf is a stealth drk buff in fl aswell, before you could easily silence before they got their combo going when you saw them running towards your raid, now you have to just wait for everyone to get caught and silence after the draw in has happened to be safe enough.

I take back some of my praise for the patch. SAM buff was a bad call.

The SAM buff literally just tries to compensate for the server being absolute garbage at debuff application. I say tries, 9/10 not only does it refuse to register the debuff's existence, but still also insists on ridiculous Line of Sight rules that are a complete mystery to anyone who didn't code it. People right next to each other with the debuff? Nah, can't be bothered to execute them too.

It's almost like we're right back where we started with that, minus any meaningful defense since that seems to only apply arbitrarily too. And put in the environment as is right now... just why.

Edit: Ah yes I forgot, also cases where the LB actually does a literal nothing in damage or execution despite debuffs, how careless of me to forget that game rule. Great rule.

Santa gave me a stocking full of coal.