While I appreciate Endwalker's story more, I'd still like to see.. (SPOILERS!!!)

When Endwalker first came out and I played through its story, I... actually wasn't super into it, to be honest. Garlemald felt very tiny and unimportant, and Zodiark never even got to appear as a proper character.

Over time, my opinion has softened quite a bit. I've come to appreciate the stuff I think Endwalker did super well; the whole story around visiting Elpis was incredible, and I actually did wind up liking Venat's character quite a bit.

And also, I think they did a great job of exploring the themes of a truly existential crisis, through the whole story with Hermes, Meteion, and Ultima Thule.

I still maintain that the story's pacing was ultimately just too fast for its own good (it felt like two expansions' worth of ideas crammed into one), simply visiting THE FREAKING MOON would've been cool enough on its own.

But even so, and even having warmed to Endwalker's own story quite a bit more, I would still like to see two things in particular:

1. Zodiark proper

2. More internal strife of the Garlean Empire

Now in the case of Zodiark, I'm not necessarily suggested that "he needs to be the big-bad". In fact, I feel like the story kinda-sorta setup the possibility that he might've been a force intended to do good, but through a negative way. There Hydaelyn was like a loving mother, perhaps Zodiark could play more of a distant fatherly role.

Just as Light is an element representing stasis, perhaps Zodiark's influence of "darkness" is what resulted in the "Ancients" evolving into the various races we have in the present, that these forms would better suit the people of Etheirys to stand against the coming trials (essentially making the playable races a product of both Light and Darkness).

Regardless, I would just like an opportunity to "meet" Zodiark. I feel like there was SO MUCH BUILD-UP for him, it felt like a huge letdown when we only got to see him as a soulless husk inhabited by Fandaniel.

(Personal aside: I feel like "the Moon" was kind of a letdown, too, just being this massive, evil-looking crater. I'd love to be able to complete some kind of quest to give it a "makeover" of some kind, maybe growing some kind of ethereal garden in place of the giant crater?)

Also, I was disappointed to see the heart of the Garlean Empire was essentially a massive ghost-town. Again, I don't necessarily need to see them return as recurring antagonists, but maybe advancements to show Garlemald still exists in some capacity, maybe the various legions becoming mercenaries or even protectors of what little remains, maybe implying that their city is being rebuilt over time? Again, just a bummer to see what I'd assumed was going to be a massive, sprawling empire was essentially a couple of destroyed city-blocks when we arrived.

Just my two cents, obviously, but I think those are the only two lingering things that still leave kind of a bad impression for me. If the next expansion was able to pick up those threads and do something more with them, I think I'd be much more stoked.

I'm hoping 7.0 has nothing to do with anything before it. Different nations, different villains, different protagonists too (obviously this isn't happening). I don't want them to keep going back to explain something that already happened or revisiting places we've already been.

While I can understand EW feeling like the story was rushed, when it comes to Hydaelyn and Zodiark…

they are revealed to be primals. While Hydaelyn is more of a human-looking version, taking on many of Venat’s personality traits, she’s still just a primal. Venat gave herself to be the “heart” of Hydaelyn, and seemed to imbue the primal with her personality and motivations. Zodiark is a more bestial-looking primal, also created by the Ancients, and Elidibus was his heart. It might have a lot to do with the mental state of the summoners in this case. Zodiark was summoned by a panicked Convocation that was pretty much like “save us at any cost!” Whereas Venat had had some time afterwards to assess the situation and seemed more calm and focused on what she thought needed to be done at that point. But as far as “meeting Zodiark,” we met his heart, Elidibus, just as we met Hydaelyn’s, Venat. Zodiark was always a primal, a thought-form. Fandaniel “wore” him, much like Ysayla did Shiva in HW.

As for Garlemald, they were embroiled in a civil war for quite some time… though I agree it would’ve been cool to see it before it was reduced to rubble! lol we’ve had tiny glimpses of it, but usually it’s an NPC on a recon mission in a cutscene and not our character.

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Originally Posted by Terin

I still maintain that the story's pacing was ultimately just too fast for its own good (it felt like two expansions' worth of ideas crammed into one)

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All films and expansions are like that really because, well, they are cramming it all into one release.

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1. Zodiark proper

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Won't happen, because Zodiark was sundered (split into shards) and because we killed the source, the other fragments were killed as well according to Yoshi-P.

I assume that doesn't happen to other people who are killed in the source because they have all returned to the aetherial sea since being sundered and become more separated from their counterparts on other shards, whereas Zodiark had never returned at any point. But I don't know.

Either way, if a fragment of Zodiark does in fact exist on other shards then we are about to find out in 6.4 when we visit the Moon in the 13th.

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Regardless, I would just like an opportunity to "meet" Zodiark. I feel like there was SO MUCH BUILD-UP for him, it felt like a huge letdown when we only got to see him as a soulless husk inhabited by Fandaniel.

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The point the story was trying to make is that Zodiark was just another aether-craving primal, like all the rest. Something for us to kill. And that was a revelation to us after always believing that Zodiark was a true god.

The story was trying to show us that the ancients believed Zodiark was a true god that would deliver them the perfect world they once had, but that from an objective observer's point of view, such as your own, the ancients were behaving like beast tribes who sacrifice themselves to give aether to a primal and that this is a never-ending cycle with no benefit.

Think about it. What is the difference between those ancients sacrificing themselves in front of Venat, and beast tribes making an offering of some of themselves or aether crystals, in exchange for the world to be made as they want?

Nothing. And that's the point.

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Also, I was disappointed to see the heart of the Garlean Empire was essentially a massive ghost-town.

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We do visit ruins an awful lot. It's nice to see an actually thriving civilization. But I am sure this is content for the future. We've had Mor Dhona, Idyllshire, Doman Restoration and Ishgard Restoration. Get ready for Garlemald Restoration someday!

We learned about, spoke with and fought Zodiark in 5.3.

I'd say this is still something I'd kinda-sorta like to see them touch on at some point in the future.

All that build-up, just to reveal Zodiark was essentially just a husk for Fandaniel to possess, just really wasn't a terribly satisfying "twist". I loved the Fandanial arc, don't get me wrong, but where Fandaniel and Ilidibus both had their chapters closed in a meaningful way, it just never felt like we got to really experience *Zodiark*, in the same way we got to experience Hydaelyn through Venat.

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Originally Posted by Terin

I'd say this is still something I'd kinda-sorta like to see them touch on at some point in the future.

All that build-up, just to reveal Zodiark was essentially just a husk for Fandaniel to possess, just really wasn't a terribly satisfying "twist". I loved the Fandanial arc, don't get me wrong, but where Fandaniel and Ilidibus both had their chapters closed in a meaningful way, it just never felt like we got to really experience *Zodiark*, in the same way we got to experience Hydaelyn through Venat.

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Because he was just a husk with his heart missing. Venat was still there when we met Hydaelyn. Elidibus was not. If you read the short story, Elidibus hadn't been there for a very long time.

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Originally Posted by Terin

I'd say this is still something I'd kinda-sorta like to see them touch on at some point in the future.

All that build-up, just to reveal Zodiark was essentially just a husk for Fandaniel to possess, just really wasn't a terribly satisfying "twist". I loved the Fandanial arc, don't get me wrong, but where Fandaniel and Ilidibus both had their chapters closed in a meaningful way, it just never felt like we got to really experience *Zodiark*, in the same way we got to experience Hydaelyn through Venat.

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Of course not the same thing, but in a 8.0 or 9.0 we could see an "Ancients Ultimate"... They have a lot of material for different phases, including Zodiark itself.

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Originally Posted by Terin

All that build-up, just to reveal Zodiark was essentially just a husk for Fandaniel to possess, just really wasn't a terribly satisfying "twist". I loved the Fandanial arc, don't get me wrong, but where Fandaniel and Ilidibus both had their chapters closed in a meaningful way, it just never felt like we got to really experience *Zodiark*, in the same way we got to experience Hydaelyn through Venat.

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The degree of power they used to suggest Zodiark had, it wouldn't be something we would be capable of fighting because it would be too big and too powerful. To make this larger-than-life god more on the level of a mortal, they had to do quite a lot of things to it...

• Say that it's been binded to a location (so you have a fixed arena to fight it in).
• Sundered (split into shards), so you are just fighting a small fraction of its true power.
• Say it was actually a vessel being piloted by a heart and that the heart left it ages ago.

Regardless, the fight is one of my favorite in the whole of Endwalker.

The reason we can beat Venat is she isn't actually meant to be much stronger than the toughest Ascians we have faced like Emet Selch. Although Hydaelyn might have had more power, they made the argument she had been weakened by the Ascian's activities.

Otherwise, the way they had portrayed those beings for a long time was that they were beyond anything we could hope to match, even just because it would be hard to match their overwhelming size and keep them still and vulnerable without them having weaknesses such as being bound to the moon or having been weakened by Ascian activity.

We might see "Zodiark Proper" in a future ultimate

the immature side of me thought the thread title was gonna end at "your mom"

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Originally Posted by Terin

I'd say this is still something I'd kinda-sorta like to see them touch on at some point in the future.

All that build-up, just to reveal Zodiark was essentially just a husk for Fandaniel to possess, just really wasn't a terribly satisfying "twist". I loved the Fandanial arc, don't get me wrong, but where Fandaniel and Ilidibus both had their chapters closed in a meaningful way, it just never felt like we got to really experience *Zodiark*, in the same way we got to experience Hydaelyn through Venat.

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Yeah, I completely agree. The direction the writers took with Zodiark was a huge disappointment and I feel like there's a lot of missed potential there.

I still feel like they *could* still do something with Zodiark.

I quite like the idea of him being more of the "stern father" to contrast the "loving mother" than Hydaelyn represents. Similarly, where Light represents stagnation, maybe Zodiark's ambitions were more about "making us strong" to face future threats.

So maybe we meet some mysterious being who aids us in some capacity, only to reveal that he is actually the last remnants of Zodiark's spirit, tasking us to remain strong to defend our star. Something where we finally get closure to that whole saga.

I think I'd mentioned before, but I think it would be cool if the "Moon" were revamped slightly, that in place of the giant evil-looking chasm that was Zodiark's prison, maybe in bringing closure to both Zodiark and Hydaelyn, it is transformed into a small garden where both of their spirits are finally laid to rest.

My two cents, anyways.

Please, let the poor God stay dead, they've already beaten the Ancient horse to dead, let them stay dead for once. This obsession with wanting to rewrite the story is getting a bit sad. Let's move on and hope that DT is a completely new story (huffs the copium).

I mean, I agree that I'm ready to move onto new story territory. But it just feels like unfinished business with how Zodiark had kind of an unceremonious end.

I get the bit that Elidibus was the "heart" of Zodiark, so in a manner of speaking, it could be argued that he was "Zodiark" in terms of personality. But it never really felt like that.

I feel like just having a sense of finality, so we can *fully* invest in the new adventures to come, would be great.