Novice Network needs changes

The Novice Network gets abused by a bunch of Mentors and Sprouts for their own personal Chat. Sprouts spamm the Network with Item Names and other crazy Stuff. Last week a Mentor asked nice to stop that and damn he / she got the worst Shittalk ever.
Two days later a Sprout Flooded the Chat and I kicked him and guess what happend? A Shittalk started again and I got kicked cause I kicked someone who spammed the Network.
Today the same bunch of Players started to talk about real Live stuff and super fast the Network became a crazy Place where Mentors startet to talk like they would be Chocobos.
So am I the asshole for asking nice to stop that in Novice Network? Right after that a Sprout wrote [23:29][NOVICE]XXXX XXXX: Last i cheched thos was a personal chat. I wrote then "Last I checked, I asked nice to stop this, next step Kick". Maybe I could have wrote it nicer but who would do that when that bunch behaves like 12 years Old Kids? And what happend then? Yeah the Shitstorm took full speed and explodet. Just like last week by that poor other Mentor. On my Server 95% of all Sprouts never asks a Question, never asks for help, cause they don't want to disturb those Bunch of Mentors / Sprouts or fear the Storm that comes after the wrong Question. Whatever you write in NN all others feels offendet and they blame you for everything, they even turn your words and let you look like a friggin savage who dared to write something in NN. That bunch of Players is so toxic that they send you even Friend Invites. To stalk you whenever you are online, if you accept them.
And now to you New Players, now you know why Mentors don't helps you. There are 3 Groups of us:

1. Those who wants only the Mount, Title, Rewards
2. Those who just sit 24/7 in the Novice Network to Chat
3. Those who dared to say something and got a Shitstorm with an extra kick right after that out of the Novice Network.

The Novice Network needs clear Rules. A Monitoring or that behavior never stops. I know that Sprouts with a free Trial have no Chat but guess it is in other Games the same. Today I felt like I would Play WoW with their ultra Toxic Chat and I asked myself, am I still in Final Fantasy 14?

Whether you're a sprout, returner, or mentor and you think someone else is abusing, harassing, kicking, or attempting to start a controversy intentionally and directed toward another player or a group of players then you should:

• As a sprout or a returner: Report harassment at the support desk.
• As a mentor: Make a single, clear warning for everyone to stop, and in case they didn't then you have every right to kick them. In case another mentor had the funny idea of kicking you as a result then you do have the right to report abusive kicking and escalate the matter to the GMs.

Everyone, including YOU is responsible to maintain a healthy and proper novice network.

Side note: Yes, general talking between players in the novice network is accepted if not encouraged as long as everyone follows the rules (ToS) and respects everyone.

Best thing any new player can do is learn to not rely on NN or just flat out not join/leave and join a helpful and friendly FC.

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

Side note: Yes, general talking between players in the novice network is accepted if not encouraged as long as everyone follows the rules (ToS) and respects everyone.

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There are exactly THREE rules for mentors that are not otherwise in the ToS that you have to agree to.

"Be an exemplar for player etiquette" is the one of note.

That general chat in there, is typically examples of, well, that. Sounds like your server has failed to police itself with proper reporting. Hopefully you learn how to use the report system soon, that'll help.

Hint, this forum, is not the report system.

Don't know what changed in this Game but I checked my Support Desk History and never had I so many reported Players like in the last week. I am most of the time calm, I write seldom something in the Chats, when I write something then it is something short. An Info, a simple question. But damn the last 7 Days ...

I do Frontline and a Player calls me a Whore for no reason. I wear always full Gear / Cloth.
I join Novice Network and wonder where I landet.
I do Dungeons, Trials, Raids and get instant the feeling this will end in a disaster and most times I am so right.
Where do suddenly all those Toxic Players come from? Have I missed something?

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Originally Posted by Aneshda

The Novice Network gets abused by a bunch of Mentors and Sprouts for their own personal Chat.

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Discussions do happen in there, but at least the chat doesn't look dead. It's more inviting if it doesn't look like nobody even uses it. Where it gets bad is when the discussions contain spoilers, discuss inappropriate subjects that are forbidden in most places, or turn into heated arguments.

It's also a bad habit of a minority of people using it as a blog. "I queued for a roulette. I got a dps that got hit by an aoe. I just bought something from the market board", but this is a tiny minority of people and most people don't do this. Unfortunately, it only takes one person per network.

These things are quite seasonal. They can get bad on a given server when, say, a major patch or raid releases and then get better a month or two later and remain that way for 6 months.

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Sprouts spamm the Network with Item Names and other crazy Stuff.

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Maybe this is your experience in your specific novice network, but I don't normally see this in novice networks.

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1. Those who wants only the Mount, Title, Rewards

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You don't need to chat to get the mount, but most pve mentors I have asked aren't even expecting to get the mount regardless of if they do Mentor Roulette. It is a very big grind that is either going to consume your life or take absolutely years.

the entire mentor system is garbage.
i've had literal mentors swear, scream slurs, attack/insult people as well as just stand there doing nothing and whenever i (and i'm also a mentor) report them the GMs send me back "oopsie whoopsie we didn't find the fwucksy whupsy they're 100% A-ok okie dokies then uwu" and i'm sick of it.

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Originally Posted by Denji

the entire mentor system is garbage.
i've had literal mentors swear, scream slurs, attack/insult people as well as just stand there doing nothing and whenever i (and i'm also a mentor) report them the GMs send me back "oopsie whoopsie we didn't find the fwucksy whupsy they're 100% A-ok okie dokies then uwu" and i'm sick of it.

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That's more of a symptom of the GMs rather than mentors. You really expect them to do something when they normally put 0% effort in. Wouldn't be surprised if it's an automated delayed response.

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Originally Posted by Bsrking5

That's more of a symptom of the GMs rather than mentors. You really expect them to do something when they normally put 0% effort in. Wouldn't be surprised if it's an automated delayed response.

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I agree. There's a lot of awful mentors out there, but generally... people are kind of awful and this is what you can expect when they're left to their own devices. You need a group like the GMs that's higher up to actually enforce things, because the mentor role is incredibly easy to grab, and most people will 100% grab it to use and abuse it(you know because people enjoy having power over others).

I prefer to help outside the NN cesspool. There’s plenty of opportunities. I’ve hidden my mentor crown on my main and don’t intend to get it on any of my alts. I don’t need one to help and I’ve always thought that it looks silly. I got totally disgusted one evening when a bunch of idiots started making jokes about abusing women with mentors participating. Not going back to NN and not inviting people to it.

Just up the requirements to mentor so that only the best players can achieve it.

From there its easy to tell who the bad mentors are amongst a smaller number of players.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Just up the requirements to mentor so that only the best players can achieve it.

From there its easy to tell who the bad mentors are amongst a smaller number of players.

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it’s about attitude and being able to pass knowledge of the main game systems. Having cleared ultimates or the latest savages is irrelevant. Most of the time the questions are very basic.

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

it’s about attitude and being able to pass knowledge of the main game systems. Having cleared ultimates or the latest savages is irrelevant. Most of the time the question are very basic.

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This. Exactly this. No sprout is going to be asking about Ultimate Raid mechanics or how to clear High Concept. Their questions are always going to be something like, "Okay, I'm confused, what's happening in the story right now?" or "How do I fly?" or "Can I get help queueing for X duty?"

a lively NN is good for everyone as long as the topic don't go overboard.
And you want the sprouts to feel like they can talk comfortably with the mentors

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Originally Posted by Dikatis

"Can I get help queueing for X duty?"

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mostly this and questions about free trial.
And where to start/join stuff
and since treasure trove is starting, best place to farm xD

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

it’s about attitude and being able to pass knowledge of the main game systems. Having cleared ultimates or the latest savages is irrelevant. Most of the time the questions are very basic.

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This. If people want to ask questions about current/sync'd exs+ then they're going to ask it in a place like the balance discord.

NN is for sprouts. That's partly why the mentor bar is so low. Also, because a lot of the players that are omnis, that do current endgame crafts/raids don't really want to bother answering some poor sprout's question. Most of them are too busy flaunting their egos. So you'd end up needing more mentors.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Just up the requirements to mentor so that only the best players can achieve it.

From there its easy to tell who the bad mentors are amongst a smaller number of players.

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Even if you up the requirements, you are probably just going to get more people who bought their clears instead of your average mentor now. The amount of actually good players I've seen in NNs so far are vast minority to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Denji

the entire mentor system is garbage.
i've had literal mentors swear, scream slurs, attack/insult people as well as just stand there doing nothing and whenever i (and i'm also a mentor) report them the GMs send me back "oopsie whoopsie we didn't find the fwucksy whupsy they're 100% A-ok okie dokies then uwu" and i'm sick of it.

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It's not the system that's garbage. It's how most mentors use it that is garbage.

There are some good mentors out there that are helpful as intended. What the system needs is some solid policing to remove the rest.

The last place to bring up concerns about mentors is in the Novice Network itself. If a mentor or anyone else is behaving inappropriately in the channel, report it direct to the GMs. Don't say anything about it in NN because that's painting a target on your back.

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Originally Posted by ThaCa

Even if you up the requirements, you are probably just going to get more people who bought their clears instead of your average mentor now. The amount of actually good players I've seen in NNs so far are vast minority to begin with.

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How good someone is at EX/Savage should be at the bottom of the list on what makes a good mentor because it's going to be a while before new players are ready to tackle that level of content.

A good mentor is someone who both wants and is willing to help to the best of their ability. Wanting to help to the best of their ability does not mean that they are always available to help or that they always have the answer for a novice.

A good mentor has information they can share about game basics - where is this found, what should I do to get access to that, is it important to do my class quest now or should I wait until later, etc.

Maybe part of what the system needs is better division between mentor and novice types. Would it be helpful to have a separate NN for those not so new players ready to venture into more advanced job topics and EX/Savage for the first time?

I always wanted to become a mentor to genuinely help people, but there's such a stigma around mentors now that I hesitate...

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Originally Posted by Elucesta

I always wanted to become a mentor to genuinely help people, but there's such a stigma around mentors now that I hesitate...

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Speaking as someone who also is haunted by that stigma, I did become a mentor and just don't wear my crown on my name. I can still talk in NN, and I don't need name glam to give a random sprout I'm partied with advice.

I encountered it myself by now in a different way. I mean i get it of course. The NN is not meant to be used as a chat, but that wasn't even directly the problem. Someone assumed that i meant something i absolutely did not even meant to say. Got asked to stop and i did. Someone else however replied to it and build up on a joke i made which in the end received the kick at first for.

Again. Yes. NN is not for casual chats, but it does not need to be taken dead serious all the time. I am playing a game and we are social people. Making a joke here and there is to lighten the mood and if no one else is actually asking or writing anything for hours, i absolutely do not see a harm in it.
I do use the chat often for the intended use to get information on what to do or if i know something myself i even reply. Even if it is a question or discussion regarding other games and their mechanics to understand something or similar things.

Later on i did say that it was kind of a over the top reaction, but also unfair that i got banned that someone else made a joke again, where i already stopped saying something that could be considered anything mean. To the joke the other person replied to me i merely answered: "You got what i meant."
And the "mentor" flipped.
Saying that it was a bit of a harsh reaction that i get kicked that someone else added up on the joke later on as i returned only resulted in threats and pulling others to their side even if they wrote that moment: "I don't even know what is going on."

It's toxic behavior. Nothing else. IF the joke i made was that horrible, since it was a in game situation in a quest i joked about.. either some people never had a childhood themselves to understand what i was saying, or it was a simple case of a power trip. Even some of my friends in the game were reading the chat, laughed (which i am still kind of doing about even now, since it is just ridiculous to react this way) and told me: "Yupp. That's NN for you. This is the exact reason why i don't join it. You only get these elitists, power-abusive and narcissists who get off to this if they can do play their powers like this.

And i say it again. Yes. Casual chat is not meant for the NN, but a social word here and there should not be treated like someone just killed the president.

To the person who did it, in case you are reading this. I told you in the NN and i say it here again. I take it still on the chin. There is no "dignity" lost from my side as you claimed it would be, it is you who kind of lost your way on this whole thing. Still i bare you no real ill will. Have a great day.

And no. I am not a "sex creep" as you insulted me with, just because i made a joke about skirts on men.

It needs deleting and reworking entirely, I don't know about just 'changes' at this point.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

It needs deleting and reworking entirely, I don't know about just 'changes' at this point.

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So what's going wrong on Sagittarius this week, and have you reported them?

Twintania has the worst Novice Network ever.
Alone today till now 40+ Kicks from Novice Network.
2 Mentors kicks Sprouts for their Names, cause they could be Bots. And they kick even Players who have their own opinions about Final Fantasy Jobs.

[12:08][NOVICE]Deidrea Shadowbane: We can't have here other opinions now?
[12:08][NOVICE]Xe---- Te---: Oh shut up.

The respect is so nice. I don't know that Mentor even. Some of them act like I would have robbed their Grandmas and kicked they down the Stairs.

After a while of watching those Mentors I wrote in NN "UHOH Hold on your Pants Sprouts, some are on a Power Trip today*
One Minute later ....
[12:32]Novice - Deidrea Shadowbane has been kicked from the channel by Lut--- Wi---. Reason: bot

[12:33]>> Lu--- Wi---: You got reported for this one cause I did nothing wrong
[12:34]Lu--- Wi--- >> you'll be back in 3 hours, chill

That is his answer for kicking without any reason. In 3 hours Novice Network is full till sometime middle of the night and there is no chance to join it back.
GM's / SE will do nothing against this. Those other 87 Mentors + 237 Sprouts, Returners thinks now that I am a Bot.
Reputation ruined in a second and best part is, those Mentors gets away with it. Is there an option to get rid of my Mentor Status?
There is no point in trying to help others if a Bunch of Mentors and Sprouts acting like they would be the Boss.
In all time since I became Mentor, I talked just with 1 other Mentor in a nice and normal way.
Normaly when I write something in Novice Network I get a full blown Shitstorm for no reason.
There is so much hate against my Char and I don't know even the reason. Feels like they picked random someone for Mobbing and it hit me.
None answers even normal Questions if I ask them. Novice Network feels like a bad AOL Chat from 2001.

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Originally Posted by Aneshda

Twintania has the worst Novice Network ever.
Alone today till now 40+ Kicks from Novice Network.
2 Mentors kicks Sprouts for their Names, cause they could be Bots. And they kick even Players who have their own opinions about Final Fantasy Jobs.

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People shouldn't be assumed to be bots because of their names necessarily because they could be a Roegadyn. Although if the first and last name is the same amount of characters then it's suspicious.

What should be watched for is advertising RMT in the chat, then they should be warned for spamming and reported as RMT, and if they do it again then they could be kicked.

That this happened today doesn't mean Twintania is always like that, but if poor behaviour is happening all that time then that is unfortunate.

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GM's / SE will do nothing against this.

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Did you report them for kick abuse?

To be fair, the two examples of things you said yourself are not the best responses themselves. First you seemed to annoy them by telling them they are abusing their power, which even if true, is confrontational and argumentative and only adding fuel to the flames. Second example you gave was not very diplomatic and again quite confrontational.

If you want to come across as the voice of reason in an argument, you can come across reasonable and emotionless and explain that they should warn first and only kick if actual spamming is happening, rather than flinging sarcasm at them and implying they are on a power trip to stoke the flames. Maybe they are on a power trip but telling them that is going to make them mad when you can focus on education instead.

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Returners thinks now that I am a Bot.

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Doubt it and even if they did, returners won't be there after 72 hours.

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Is there an option to get rid of my Mentor Status?

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Talk to the smith, or press O to open the party list, rightclick on your name and edit search info and change your status to something else.

I have reported them and it changes nothing. SE should change the Kick Funktion. Mentors should be able to kick only once per Week.
Right now there are 3 Mentors kicking again and again Sprouts. One Sprout got kicked today cause he was afk for a while.
The Mentor who kicked him, gave the reason : Is Afk, he is doing all time long nothing, could be a Bot?
Do Mentors stalk now Sprouts? Who cares if a Player writes nothing and is afk or if a Player writes 0 into the Chat?
Is that now an offense? How gets offendet by a 0 in the Chat?
Mentors are not the Network Police. I wish SE would kick those Mentors out of the Network and give them a 2 Week Network bann.

Whatever someone writes in the Network it is always an offense and always a reason to hate on a Player. It can be something simple like "Hello" and a Shitstorm starts.
I saw all Networks on the Light Servers and all on Chaos and not a single one was so toxic like Twintania.

There are Players who started to Stalk me. There is one Player that sells an Item that I sell too. That Player startet an Undercut War and lost it. After that he teleportet to every single Ward to find my Apartment / House.
Player Search showed me that he is Teleporting from Gridania to the Empyreum. I stood outside at the Entrance to the Apartments and saw him Teleporting to me, he then went to the Door to check the Apartments.
Another Player buys my Items and resells them, he undercuts me all the time, with Items he bought from me. Another one uses for sure an AddOn to Scan the Market Board for my Name, cause everytime I find a niche where only 1 other Player sells 1 Item and I try to sell same Item, the very next day a third Player sells that Item too. It is always the same Player, with the same Retainer Name. These can hardly be coincidences.

OR they should just add a global chat to the game...
-Many use NN as global chat..bc there isn't one ingame!

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Originally Posted by Zeastria

-Many use NN as global chat..bc there isn't one ingame!

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For a reason. Shout chat is insufferable enough with people who get paid to advertise for stupid RP clubs or Twitch channels because the ones orchestrating it know people will just blacklist them. There's enough spam everywhere in the game as it is.

I am wholly against removing it, the main problem of NN is certain worlds having power-hungry mentors ruining it. The simple solution to that would be to allow players to report people for this and have them lose the Mentor status permanently.

also, a true global chat simply would not work
i don't know about other worlds but on Excal theres a common agreement among most people that advertising and spam isn't allowed in NN, a global chat without constant moderation would just devolve into RP adverts.
And at peak hours there are likely thousands of players online on any given world, a chat with that many participants would be far too fast to hold any real conversations, NNs requirements (easy as they may be to complete) and player limit of 100 mentors and 412 sprouts keeps it at a reasonable pace.

The mentor system needs to be deleted or given a MASSIVE overhaul. The majority of people wearing the crown do so only for clout. People who genuinely want to help people will do so without incentive. Novice network devolves into Barrens chat esque nonsense. It leaves a "great" first impression for new players seeing walls and walls of just pure garbage, and people being made fun of for asking questions.

Sorry if you're not one of THOSE mentors who runs around power tripping and making an ass of yourself. As much as you'd like to think its a case of "A few bad apples spoil the bunch." It's more like half the apples are completely rotten. Square really needs to monitor Mentors, and issue penalties, or lifetime bans to mentors who abuse their powers.

The mentor kicking a player from NN should automatically get kicked out as well. If they are there to help sprouts and just want to keep the chat clean, they'll know there's another mentor ready to take their place within minutes. After all, it doesn't really matter who is doing the helping. If they are there to power trip, to chat with their mentor friends or to get attention, they'll think twice about kicking a sprout without cause.

While it's probably fair to say that the internet tends to bring out the worst in people, that's hardly the sum of it. People tend to be toxic when there's anonymity and no consequences...in addition, I've found PVP oriented players tend to be the worst.

NN was one of those "sounds good on paper" but they forgot that people in power are jerks. NN needs a GM.

However my faith in moderation of any kind in FFXIV is...non existent. I do not trust them to do anything but the barest of minimums.

I'm honestly sorry to hear you've gone through things like that. Honestly one bad mentor and a sycophant or two can ruin the whole experience.

Our NN has been pretty good for the last couple years (been in NN I guess seven or eight years now?). We've had problems but nothing as uncomfortable as of late. Honestly lately I'm having trouble as to how to handle it. I'm no prude but everything said in our NN that gets a rebuke by anyone gets told, it's just NN "After Dark". Two days ago there was a comment about putting a paper bag over someone's head. Then a coy remark about making it a plastic bag. It honestly doesn't feel like a safe space anymore and it's hard to report people who aren't talking to you specifically.

I won't invite people to our NN anymore because I no longer feel like it's appropriate. I almost wonder if they should keep someone on the payroll to occasionally check chats (rotating servers) to make sure it is appropriate enough and watch for bad players. They become obvious over time.

I am unsubbing NN after years of service. With my own personal health issues, it's a burden I can no longer carry.