Suggestion for Novice Network replacement: "Beginner's Board"

Most people who have been in the Novice Network will be familiar with its problems. The quality varies wildly per server with some NNs basically just being global chat and personal hangout for the server's mentors with no one putting much thought into helping new players.

With the goal of making the concept of the system more focused and effective as a tool for new players to get help, I propose removing the Novice Network as a chat channel and instead replacing it with a bulletin board system, the "Beginner's Board"


The Beginner's Board would be a globally accessible message board-like interface accessible via a sprout icon on the HUD. To avoid bot pollution, the same system of invites can still exist, but anyone on the board can see this icon.

On this board, new players and returners can post questions which appear as topics in a list. Anyone on the board can open, view and respond to an existing question, but ONLY sprouts and returners are permitted to post new questions. Mentors may only respond to existing questions. The question asker can reply to responses to ask for more details or clarification, and in this case respondents may reply again to help. If a question or reply you've posted receives a response, the HUD icon lights up to notify you.


The board could also have a system of ratings. Sprouts and returners may be permitted to rate responses to questions as "helpful".

The number of "helpful" ratings a player receives may be tracked and could serve to prioritize their responses, appear as a "trustworthiness rating" next to the player's comments on the board, or potentially progress new mentor achievements. The interface could also provide the option to report bad or abusive responses, which could penalize repeat offenders by temporarily limiting their access to the board, disabling their mentor status, or triggering a GM review for serious cases.


The board would display the 100-200 most recent questions, with older questions gradually falling off the board as new questions are posted. Ideally players could still view responses to their own questions even if the question itself has expired. Some limit on the number of questions a player has active at once should be there to prevent abuse. Question askers can voluntarily close any of their active questions which removes it from the board.


Due to the fact that sprout status is tracked per-character rather than per-account, it would be possible to abuse the above system by creating new characters, so I think such a system would also have to come alongside a change to make sprout status tracked account-wide, or otherwise preventing players from joining the board as a sprout if they have a non-sprout character. However I think that even without a system of ratings, the board would be an improvement over the current Novice Network.

Some sort of ingame forum. Alright, doesnt sound too bad. I would allow sprouts to also reply to questions though, both informative replies and further questions on the topic are valuable. Rating systems like that seem overrated but whatever.

Bulletin boards are slower than chat channels though. If someone posts something on a bulletin board, it may not be seen for hours or days. Mentors can respond to stuff in Novice Network chat in seconds.

A bulletin board would make it even harder for sprouts to request help queueing for content too. If a sprout asks for help, there's no guarantee that their request would be seen, versus every mentor currently playing and logged into the Novice Network seeing the request instantly.

A bulletin board would be strictly inferior with no real upside. If the Novice Network has mentors abusing their kick privileges, it's up to sprouts and other mentors to report the offenders.

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Originally Posted by Dikatis

Bulletin boards are slower than chat channels though. If someone posts something on a bulletin board, it may not be seen for hours or days. Mentors can respond to stuff in Novice Network chat in seconds.

A bulletin board would make it even harder for sprouts to request help queueing for content too. If a sprout asks for help, there's no guarantee that their request would be seen, versus every mentor currently playing and logged into the Novice Network seeing the request instantly.

A bulletin board would be strictly inferior with no real upside. If the Novice Network has mentors abusing their kick privileges, it's up to sprouts and other mentors to report the offenders.

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The upside would be to have the topic visible for longer I guess.

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Originally Posted by PangTong

Most people who have been in the Novice Network will be familiar with its problems. The quality varies wildly per server with some NNs basically just being global chat and personal hangout for the server's mentors with no one putting much thought into helping new players.

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Usually this mindset is most common among crafter/gatherer mentors who got the easiest version of mentor for that very purpose, but in many of the networks where it's being used as a global chat and a hangout, when a new player asks a question, it does actually get answered.

But a small number of servers don't have mentors that regularly invite sprouts to the novice network. They are meant to use Player Search and find sprouts to invite and when that doesn't happen, there is a noticeable lack of sprouts interrupting with questions.

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I propose removing the Novice Network as a chat channel and instead replacing it with a bulletin board system, the "Beginner's Board"

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This would probably get as much use as the New Player forum here, or Fellowships which have bulletin boards. So not much.

Sometimes people just want a live conversation to properly discuss their queries rather than a slow bulletin board system and I see a lot of sprouts benefit from being able to fully iron out their query in a conversation, or learn from others' conversations and sharing of experiences.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

The upside would be to have the topic visible for longer I guess.

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From my experience as a mentor on the Gilgamesh NN, we usually have at LEAST 20-30 mentors on at basically all times. I've never seen a question or a request for help go unanswered for more than three minutes. Most are answered in under 30 seconds.

For us, the bigger problem is sprouts not asking questions or refusing to join the NN in the first place because of its popular perception as a mentor chatroom... Which turns them into mentor chatrooms like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The social capabilities of the NN are also important for making the sprouts who do join feel welcome. I happily advertise free minion giveaways and help 40 players each week with the Fashion Report. Being able to chat makes the game world feel less lonely while allowing mentors to foster a positive atmosphere. Of course there are bad eggs here and there, but I've had multiple players tell me they want to come back and mentor other players because of the NN.

Just use google? The point of asking in NN is that you get real time response, with further clarification if needed. It's also easier to ask question if it's more vague. Players are more likely to understand what you're talking about than google, for example if you use term skin instead of glam and similar.

This won't help NN in any way, you'll just take away opportunity to ask veteran question directly and you'll be limited to slow and delayed forum format, which is something that internet already provides.

/activehelp if you want a FAQ

Give me the cozy feel of a BBS over the modern glut of twitter and "social media" any day.

How about you keep the NN and you can have your board? Dont see why Servers with a good NN shouldnt miss out just because other NNs suck. Lich has a great NN

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Originally Posted by Bladedance87

How about you keep the NN and you can have your board? Dont see why Servers with a good NN shouldnt miss out just because other NNs suck. Lich has a great NN

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Oops i mean "should" damn how do i edit my posts? Dont see any buttons for edit

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Originally Posted by Bladedance87

Oops i mean "should" damn how do i edit my posts? Dont see any buttons for edit

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Edit button is right next to the green arrow reply button. :)

The fact that only some NNs are problem children is proof that the problem is not with the system, but rather with the people running it. NN isn't perfect, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. What we need is more GM oversight.

The only fix for NN is to make mentor restrictions harder so that only those people who are knowledgeable enough if their respective mentor aspects will be able to actually mentor new players.

If the mentor had an aptitude test related to specific branch, 90% of mentors would fail immediately.

'solo combat test' for battle mentors.
'expert crafting & collectables test' for trade mentors.

Congratulations, you now have mentors that actually know what they are doing.

Honestly it's a real good suggestion that I hope is taken into consideration.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

If the mentor had an aptitude test related to specific branch, 90% of mentors would fail immediately.

'solo combat test' for battle mentors.

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To be fair, the level 90 role quests do have tests. You do have to heal in the healer role quest, you can't just do your normal thing of spamming DPS and not paying attention to tank busters and incoming damage. You do have to use "interrupt" on a tank. I remember the DPS role quest made me actually do dodging and mechanics instead of greeding.

But I imagine with enough persistence, someone who wasn't able to do these things would find a way to cheese it. Because this is FFXIV and people find a way to cheese things usually.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

The only fix for NN is to make mentor restrictions harder so that only those people who are knowledgeable enough if their respective mentor aspects will be able to actually mentor new players.

If the mentor had an aptitude test related to specific branch, 90% of mentors would fail immediately.

'solo combat test' for battle mentors.
'expert crafting & collectables test' for trade mentors.

Congratulations, you now have mentors that actually know what they are doing.

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The problem with most bad mentors isn't lack of knowledge, its bad attitude. Short of interviewing everyone who gets a crown, there's no fix for this.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

The problem with most bad mentors isn't lack of knowledge, its bad attitude. Short of interviewing everyone who gets a crown, there's no fix for this.

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This is also true, but the # of total mentors would drop drastically making it very obvious who the good/bad mentors are.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

This is also true, but the # of total mentors would drop drastically making it very obvious who the good/bad mentors are.

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Your idea to make all mentors clear the latest savage raids will not weed out "good" mentors from "bad" mentors. You're arbitrarily gatekeeping people who actually have the attitude and desire to help from reaching a few hundred sprouts who could use a friendly face. You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what a mentor is. We're not here to be 100% completionist masters who understand each and every instance down to the second. We're here to be a welcoming and helpful friend to new and returning players to get them up to speed and lend a hand when asked.

I'm sorry for whatever bad experiences you had that give you such an awful vendetta against anyone with a crown next to your name, but your tendency to get heated over every little thing makes you honestly seem like you're trolling at times.

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Originally Posted by Dikatis

Your idea to make all mentors clear the latest savage raids will not weed out "good" mentors from "bad" mentors. You're arbitrarily gatekeeping people who actually have the attitude and desire to help from reaching a few hundred sprouts who could use a friendly face. You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what a mentor is. We're not here to be 100% completionist masters who understand each and every instance down to the second. We're here to be a welcoming and helpful friend to new and returning players to get them up to speed and lend a hand when asked.

I'm sorry for whatever bad experiences you had that give you such an awful vendetta against anyone with a crown next to your name, but your tendency to get heated over every little thing makes you honestly seem like you're trolling at times.

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I would rather get combat related advice from somebody who knows how to play the game, and can clear a current raid tier, over some guy who sits in limsa all day talking in NN like its IMVU dating simulator.

Go into NN and ask some of the Trade Mentors any questions about expert crafting, and watch them throw out misinformation 9 times out of 10 because they have never done it once in their entire life.

It's a bad system, and the filters need to be updated so people cant just get it for a symbol next to their name.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

I would rather get combat related advice from somebody who knows how to play the game, and can clear a current raid tier, over some guy who sits in limsa all day talking in NN like its IMVU dating simulator.

Go into NN and ask some of the Trade Mentors any questions about expert crafting, and watch them throw out misinformation 9 times out of 10 because they have never done it once in their entire life.

It's a bad system, and the filters need to be updated so people cant just get it for a symbol next to their name.

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I really can't sympathize with you because Gilgamesh's NN is pretty great 95% of the time. Sometimes people throw out horny comments or start arguments but that's when we pull out our kick hammers and all is normal again.

If one mentor spouts bad information, then the onus is on the other people in the Novice Network to correct them and for the one who made the mistake to learn and not spread misinformation. The sprouts should also be aware of when something isn't working and ask about for answers. Just because some people get stuff wrong (I HIGHLY doubt your 9/10 number) doesn't mean they should stop being a mentor and trying to help others.

And you're still construing mentor as "100 PARSING SAVAGE RAIDER" versus someone who can actually sit down and teach or have the empathy and social skills to get down on a new player's level and see things from their perspective. Being a good raider and being a good mentor who can answer questions like, "Hey, how do you get materia for this quest?" or "I'm lost, help!" are two different things. And I feel like I'm talking to a stone wall with how unchanging your responses are.

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Originally Posted by Dikatis

I really can't sympathize with you because Gilgamesh's NN is pretty great 95% of the time. Sometimes people throw out horny comments or start arguments but that's when we pull out our kick hammers and all is normal again.

If one mentor spouts bad information, then the onus is on the other people in the Novice Network to correct them and for the one who made the mistake to learn and not spread misinformation. The sprouts should also be aware of when something isn't working and ask about for answers. Just because some people get stuff wrong (I HIGHLY doubt your 9/10 number) doesn't mean they should stop being a mentor and trying to help others.

And you're still construing mentor as "100 PARSING SAVAGE RAIDER" versus someone who can actually sit down and teach or have the empathy and social skills to get down on a new player's level and see things from their perspective. Being a good raider and being a good mentor who can answer questions like, "Hey, how do you get materia for this quest?" or "I'm lost, help!" are two different things. And I feel like I'm talking to a stone wall with how unchanging your responses are.

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Oh its 100% a brick wall, ill never budge on the ideology that unless you actually do certain content at its highest level, you are not qualified to teach anyone how to to said content.

Its like asking a builder to give a lecture on brain surgery.

If you cannot do the content, you are not qualified to teach. End of story.

*me sipping juice while answering questions in NN that never involve savage raiding*
Hell, I'm pretty much the only one in Ton NN who ever asked about rotations and how to play jobs.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Oh its 100% a brick wall, ill never budge on the ideology that unless you actually do certain content at its highest level, you are not qualified to teach anyone how to to said content.

Its like asking a builder to give a lecture on brain surgery.

If you cannot do the content, you are not qualified to teach. End of story.

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...You do realize that sprouts don't care about whether or not you cleared P8S, right? They care about whether or not you can help them solve a problem that's happening now like, "How do I get my first mount?" and "Where do I go from here?" right? Stuff that doesn't require Savage content knowledge because sprouts inherently don't care about the latest Savage content. It's like asking a teacher to get a PhD in Nuclear Physics to teach a class of kindergartners how to read.

And you just blatantly admitted to being purposefully obtuse and unwilling to engage in actual discussion, meaning that engaging with you is a complete waste of time and energy.

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Originally Posted by Dikatis

...You do realize that sprouts don't care about whether or not you cleared P8S, right? They care about whether or not you can help them solve a problem that's happening now like, "How do I get my first mount?" and "Where do I go from here?" right? Stuff that doesn't require Savage content knowledge because sprouts inherently don't care about the latest Savage content. It's like asking a teacher to get a PhD in Nuclear Physics to teach a class of kindergartners how to read.

And you just blatantly admitted to being purposefully obtuse and unwilling to engage in actual discussion, meaning that engaging with you is a complete waste of time and energy.

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Yet here you are, still replying because you cannot help yourself.
it's been fun my dude.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Yet here you are, still replying because you cannot help yourself.
it's been fun my dude.

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Cool. Good to know that you're a troll like TitanMen and Skiros. See ya.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

I would rather get combat related advice from somebody who knows how to play the game, and can clear a current raid tier, over some guy who sits in limsa all day talking in NN like its IMVU dating simulator.

Go into NN and ask some of the Trade Mentors any questions about expert crafting, and watch them throw out misinformation 9 times out of 10 because they have never done it once in their entire life.

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You should not be going to NN for advice about expert crafting or savage raiding. NN is meant for newbies to learn the basics. Requiring savage clears to be a combat mentor is like requiring a CPA to work as a clerk in an accounting firm.