Concerns about Ultimate PF on Aether

If you are not aware of the situation...
TOP has basically destroyed aether ultimate PF.

Starting 4 weeks ago, 30-40 TOP parties began being clear only
to join you were required to show fflogs proof of having hit phase 6 (which is against the ToS to require), or it was a duty complete clear for 1 party

PF basically overnight died, pfs took 6 hours to fill, and to my knowledge there has not been a single recorded instance of a pf clear ever since.

Those who did not manage to get to P6 by then were stranded and could no longer prog, as the few p5 and prog parties took much longer to fill.

On top of that, to my knowledge there are now two global pf blacklists going on, and if you ever done any TOP pfing on aether, you have a 99% chance of being on one of the two lists.

The 40 total people that were regular pfers for TOP started avoiding each other, further increasing the time it takes to fill PFs

The situation is so insane today, primetime saturday afternoon, there are a total of 6 TOP pfs, 2 of them are advertisements, and you can no longer do TOP on any NA datacenter without a static.

As someone who only pugs and knowing it wasn't this bad during DSR, I'm heavily concerned with the state of PF.

I doubt anything can be done about it, but just wanted to raise some awareness.

I just dont get why people seeking parties cant just start their own. Its not as if you're the only special case where you're the only one amongst the raiders, Im pretty sure like-minded people will join your group.

Just report each one of them in for breaking the ToS and also SE should upheld and go by the ToS they made us all sign for being permitted to play the game.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I just dont get why people seeking parties cant just start their own.

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Largely, people don't like taking the initiative, especially for anything that can be perceived as "leadership", sure, it may seem easy, and it is easy for some people, but many other people have to deal with so much anxiety for things like that, that you might as well be asking them to eat a cyanide pill, in turn, it can lead to the people who are willing to take initiative for things like this to go on huge ego trips, because they start to perceive as themselves being the only thing holding things together, when in reality they aren't... doing anything, they just clicked two buttons on a MMO UI.

Is it that shocking that a lot of MMO players are nerds with anxiety issues?

Ultimate PFs are a recent phenomenon, it was basically impossible to pug ultimates in SB and early ShB. This always happens when the fight is much greater than the average raider's skill level.

There were also blacklists in ShB, and there are google docs documenting bad (either in skill or in personality) players, describing drama in detail, and it was spread around.

I'm not sure any awareness needs to be raised. Pretty much every raider at the level of Ultimates knows about this. It's why people stick to statics.

Another solution could be to do it so you can ONLY use dutyfinder for it, and you needto uncheck which parts of the duty you have done by a clear point that unlocks when at this or that phase... that rules out partyfinder entirely and also it add an actual challenge to the community, for not knowing whom they group up with and it also gets rid of the bought clears or obstructs the practise way more as well....

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

Largely, people don't like taking the initiative, especially for anything that can be perceived as "leadership", sure, it may seem easy, and it is easy for some people, but many other people have to deal with so much anxiety for things like that, that you might as well be asking them to eat a cyanide pill, in turn, it can lead to the people who are willing to take initiative for things like this to go on huge ego trips, because they start to perceive as themselves being the only thing holding things together, when in reality they aren't... doing anything, they just clicked two buttons on a MMO UI.

Is it that shocking that a lot of MMO players are nerds with anxiety issues?

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I suppose so, but people can get over it. I consider myself having social anxiety and I still manage to form a pf when I needed to do some content that people dont run anymore (like Delibrum).

I think sometimes we expect games too much to change around us rather than us having to adapt to the game. It's why many games seem to have lost a lot of things in its design in the past all for the sake of overly convenience the player, and in an MMO's case thats a huge deal.

But thats a whole 'nother conversation.

Anyway I still think people dont realize just how simple and easy it is to form your own groups for things you want to do.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

Largely, people don't like taking the initiative, especially for anything that can be perceived as "leadership", sure, it may seem easy, and it is easy for some people, but many other people have to deal with so much anxiety for things like that, that you might as well be asking them to eat a cyanide pill, in turn, it can lead to the people who are willing to take initiative for things like this to go on huge ego trips, because they start to perceive as themselves being the only thing holding things together, when in reality they aren't... doing anything, they just clicked two buttons on a MMO UI.

Is it that shocking that a lot of MMO players are nerds with anxiety issues?

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I'm one of those with anxiety.

But I also know sometimes I have to step up to take the initiative to get what I want. The anxiety doesn't go away but I grit my teeth and bear it. If it gets too strong, then I take a few days off.

Best way to miss out is to expect everyone else to provide for you and then moan about why you can't get a party for content.

A lot of times, I've seen one player start a party just for someone else who joined it to take over once the party is formed. The results can be mixed but at least someone got the ball rolling.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

If you are not aware of the situation...
TOP has basically destroyed aether ultimate PF.

Starting 4 weeks ago, 30-40 TOP parties began being clear only
to join you were required to show fflogs proof of having hit phase 6 (which is against the ToS to require), or it was a duty complete clear for 1 party

PF basically overnight died, pfs took 6 hours to fill, and to my knowledge there has not been a single recorded instance of a pf clear ever since.

Those who did not manage to get to P6 by then were stranded and could no longer prog, as the few p5 and prog parties took much longer to fill.

On top of that, to my knowledge there are now two global pf blacklists going on, and if you ever done any TOP pfing on aether, you have a 99% chance of being on one of the two lists.

The 40 total people that were regular pfers for TOP started avoiding each other, further increasing the time it takes to fill PFs

The situation is so insane today, primetime saturday afternoon, there are a total of 6 TOP pfs, 2 of them are advertisements, and you can no longer do TOP on any NA datacenter without a static.

As someone who only pugs and knowing it wasn't this bad during DSR, I'm heavily concerned with the state of PF.

I doubt anything can be done about it, but just wanted to raise some awareness.

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That's a lot of drama for a videogame. Back in my day, people gamed for fun.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

As someone who only pugs and knowing it wasn't this bad during DSR, I'm heavily concerned with the state of PF.

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Anyone else remember this post?

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

I lead a raiding static, we are doing TOP and got to phase 3. Alt character for anonymity purposes

Recently a member streamed and showed himself using a zoomhack, so I swiftly and immediately kicked him from the static, reported him and blocked him.

Yet now after 3 days trying to find a replacement, some members of the static started arguing with me and 2 of them left.

They say that it was petty of me to eff over the progress of 6 other people just to get rid of a cheater.

They say that it's okay that he cheats because he kept to himself and never talked about it.

My other raiding friends also told me what I did was a really bad idea.

So now the group that was going so well is breaking apart and it's my fault, however I don't think I did anything wrong, cheating is forbidden by the ToS.

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people are requiring proof of reaching a specific point in the fight when PF players are notorious for not reading PF descriptions and lying about their prog points? say it ain't so!

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Anyone else remember this post?

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https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...8/075/30a.jpeg

So are you asking the community to do something here? Or expecting SE to? Because I don't really see what SE could do. PF is a community thing and the behavior there outside of anything that breaks ToS I don't see is something SE could really take any action on.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

So are you asking the community to do something here? Or expecting SE to? Because I don't really see what SE could do. PF is a community thing and the behavior there outside of anything that breaks ToS I don't see is something SE could really take any action on.

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read the whole post before you reply

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

read the whole post before you reply

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I did read the whole post and if someone's actually mentioned fflogs in their PF and there is proof in game, yeah, report that. Some people get clever with their PF entries and there isn't obvious proof that SE can go on.

Don't see anything else in there that SE can really do anything about.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

I did read the whole post and if someone's actually mentioned fflogs in their PF and there is proof in game, yeah, report that. Some people get clever with their PF entries and there isn't obvious proof that SE can go on.

Don't see anything else in there that SE can really do anything about.

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if you really read the whole post you would have read the last 2 sentences

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

if you really read the whole post you would have read the last 2 sentences

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I can see why people wanted to stop associating with you, assuming your past story was true.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

I can see why people wanted to stop associating with you, assuming your past story was true.

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neither of the two stories is true, that's the point of creating discussion
I even charge $4.99 for people to see my actual character

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Another solution could be to do it so you can ONLY use dutyfinder for it, and you needto uncheck which parts of the duty you have done by a clear point that unlocks when at this or that phase... that rules out partyfinder entirely and also it add an actual challenge to the community, for not knowing whom they group up with and it also gets rid of the bought clears or obstructs the practise way more as well....

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Wouldn't work because people would just check that they know everything even if they are fresh to the instance.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...8/075/30a.jpeg

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Not saying they didn't lie, but the fact that they had a static and it fell apart and NOW they are doing PF does make sense lmao.

I can confirm that the blacklist is a real thing. But it's less global and more a private discord exclusive to the highest percentage of raider that filters the 'trash' out. It's impossible to really get on the liked list unless you somehow end up in a high-end raider clique of some kind. So, it's better to just not ever worry about it.

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Originally Posted by Remish

I can confirm that the blacklist is a real thing. But it's less global and more a private discord exclusive to the highest percentage of raider that filters the 'trash' out. It's impossible to really get on the liked list unless you somehow end up in a high-end raider clique of some kind. So, it's better to just not ever worry about it.

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Any list that has a name on it is real. It's just not relevant.

I can make a black list right now:

1. John Smith

There. You know what gives it power? People actually listening or caring about it. Just do your thing, don't go looking for lists, if it gets shoved in your face ignore it, and go about your day. Make a point to avoid any player that endorses this sort of thing and you'll be fine.

If you really want to PF an ult which quite frankly I wouldn't recommend, and you see you get kicked, start your own. If it gives you anxiety, accept it as a challenge to overcome it. You wouldn't be progging an ultimate fight if you weren't seeking to push yourself. Starting a PF for it is part of it. Having patience for it to fill is another part.

Whatever amount of people doing this in PF will see their numbers dwindle because they will be dealing with an ever-decreasing number of people to play with due to their discrimination. The OP stated it itself. If it really is dying, it deserves to die. 100% avoid joining any PF listing with any threats implied, veiled or not. That's all there's to it. Otherwise you are feeding these movements.

Do not go around giving any blacklists or any people with ego trips attention they don't deserve. Nothing about this game is secret knowledge or special. Right now you can get good at the game by learning your rotation and studying fights. If they are any good at the game that is what they did, and you can certainly do it too.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Any list that has a name on it is real. It's just not relevant.

I can make a black list right now:

1. John Smith

There. You know what gives it power? People actually listening or caring about it. Just do your thing, don't go looking for lists, if it gets shoved in your face ignore it, and go about your day. Make a point to avoid any player that endorses this sort of thing and you'll be fine.

If you really want to PF an ult which quite frankly I wouldn't recommend, and you see you get kicked, start your own. If it gives you anxiety, accept it as a challenge to overcome it. You wouldn't be progging an ultimate fight if you weren't seeking to push yourself. Starting a PF for it is part of it. Having patience for it to fill is another part.

Whatever amount of people doing this in PF will see their numbers dwindle because they will be dealing with an ever-decreasing number of people to play with due to their discrimination. The OP stated it itself. If it really is dying, it deserves to die. 100% avoid joining any PF listing with any threats implied, veiled or not. That's all there's to it. Otherwise you are feeding these movements.

Do not go around giving any blacklists or any people with ego trips attention they don't deserve. Nothing about this game is secret knowledge or special. Right now you can get good at the game by learning your rotation and studying fights. If they are any good at the game that is what they did, and you can certainly do it too.

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the thing is that when the player pool is 40ish players and you keep seeing the same names over and over, a blacklist is excessively effective

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

the thing is that when the player pool is 40ish players and you keep seeing the same names over and over, a blacklist is excessively effective

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It's not. For all intents and purposes the players doing that might as well not exist because they will leave or avoid others. So really, the player pool isn't 40. It's whoever isn't participating in that behavior. You may want to start blacklisting them in game for your personal character so you don't see their PFs and that way you won't even have to look at their listings. If you join a pug that isn't hosted by them and one of them happens to in there let them drop if they want.

It's impossible for something to be excessively effective if it isn't even acknowledged to begin with.

If the player pool of people that will actually raid without discriminating against others is too small to prog Ult raids then the problem is that a suitable raid scene simply doesn't exist and that's it (which quite frankly isn't surprising, as the content is more designed for statics.). If you are a PF ult raider then perhaps you can contribute to the pool of people that progs raids without holding grudges. That's what it's going to take to create an ult raid scene that's worth it.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

neither of the two stories is true, that's the point of creating discussion
I even charge $4.99 for people to see my actual character

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Yea I sure do love discussions that are entirely based on lies. Nothing better than that.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Wouldn't work because people would just check that they know everything even if they are fresh to the instance.

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Not if, you actually need to have passed the steps in duty finder to be able to join those that was able to check it on, as they passed it.

My proposal is to murder statics entirely for Ultimates this and only letting you DO it QUEING with Duty Finder SOLO only, no options Partyfinder at all... making it the ultimate challenge.

Also would get rid og all the world first bs... and people cheating/buying clears which is in conflict with the TOS.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Not if, you actually need to have passed the steps in duty finder to be able to join those that was able to check it on, as they passed it.

My proposal is to murder statics entirely for Ultimates this and only letting you DO it QUEING with Duty Finder SOLO only, no options Partyfinder at all... making it the ultimate challenge.

Also would get rid og all the world first bs... and people cheating/buying clears which is in conflict with the TOS.

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This is on the same level as a child destroying their toys so no one else can play with them.

Trying to pug an ultimate raid sounds like a nightmare to me. Statics exist for a reason.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Not if, you actually need to have passed the steps in duty finder to be able to join those that was able to check it on, as they passed it.

My proposal is to murder statics entirely for Ultimates this and only letting you DO it QUEING with Duty Finder SOLO only, no options Partyfinder at all... making it the ultimate challenge.

Also would get rid og all the world first bs... and people cheating/buying clears which is in conflict with the TOS.

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One of the most idiotic ideas to come across these forums...

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Yea I sure do love discussions that are entirely based on lies. Nothing better than that.

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yes, you are forced to discuss the idea and the arguments, and not get stuck trying to find out as much information as possible about OP so you can dismiss the topic over personal traits
as I said, $4.99 to see my main's lodestone profile

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

yes, you are forced to discuss the idea and the arguments, and not get stuck trying to find out as much information as possible about OP so you can dismiss the topic over personal traits
as I said, $4.99 to see my main's lodestone profile

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And how is that going for you? Are you getting what you want out of these threads?

This all sounds like a lot of stress for what is supposed to be an entertainment medium.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

This all sounds like a lot of stress for what is supposed to be an entertainment medium.

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Welcome to online games in the current year! Someone mess up a mechanic or their dps a bit too low? That's a personal attack against ya, you should let them know~! lmao

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Originally Posted by Remish

I can confirm that the blacklist is a real thing. But it's less global and more a private discord exclusive to the highest percentage of raider that filters the 'trash' out. It's impossible to really get on the liked list unless you somehow end up in a high-end raider clique of some kind. So, it's better to just not ever worry about it.

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either that or be a sexpest

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

I even charge $4.99 for people to see my actual character

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Damn. You are into extreme raid progression for real money? Oooof.