FF16 stealing even more dev time from FF14

Endwalker now has even less content than Shadowbringers. All money and resources are being pumped into FF16 and FF14 is in managed decline. We paid for FF14 not FF16.

FFXVI launch will be a double edged sword for Yoshi P... If it does well we may lose him to more future projects, if it does poorly may lose him altogether (Japanese dont take failures all that well, but he seem modern enough to jump back into things.)

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Originally Posted by hunkygladiator

Endwalker now has even less content than Shadowbringers.

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not it doesn't

I think a comparison between ShB and EW contents is in order around patch 6.55 to see if it's true that EW has less content or not.
Although a comparison between 6.35 and 5.35 could work perfectly too.

The gaslighting is so strong with this thread its ridiculous

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Originally Posted by Duskane

not it doesn't

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This is right. The content IS there, it's just distributed in a different way.

The content that in ShB made up the Bozja/Zadnor zones, the relic grind and the large scale duties, is instead spent on Island Sanctuary, Variant/Criterion dungeons, and the new Deep Dungeon.
The design is less efficient, less impactful, but from an outside PoV it seems to have taken more or less the same resources. So it's not about dev time, its about design choices.

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Originally Posted by hunkygladiator

Endwalker now has even less content than Shadowbringers.

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This is outright untrue lol.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

This is right. The content IS there, it's just distributed in a different way.

The content that in ShB made up the Bozja/Zadnor zones, the relic grind and the large scale duties, is instead spent on Island Sanctuary, Variant/Criterion dungeons, and the new Deep Dungeon.
The design is less efficient, less impactful, but from an outside PoV it seems to have taken more or less the same resources. So it's not about dev time, its about design choices.

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Spot on. Keep in mind we just got a Deep Dungeon whereas ShB didn't get one. There are lots of things that "skip expansions."
ARR: PotD
HW: none
SB: HoH
ShB: none
EW: Orthos

That's just one example. There are probably others. EW doesn't appear to be getting a Eureka/Bozja zone, but it doesn't mean we haven't gotten content. Personally, I think a lot of this mindset is simply one's perception or better yet... a predisposition to look for the negative.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

Spot on. Keep in mind we just got a Deep Dungeon whereas ShB didn't get one. There are lots of things that "skip expansions."
ARR: PotD
HW: none
SB: HoH
ShB: none
EW: Orthos

That's just one example. There are probably others. EW doesn't appear to be getting a Eureka/Bozja zone, but it doesn't mean we haven't gotten content. Personally, I think a lot of this mindset is simply one's perception or better yet... a predisposition to look for the negative.

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Palace of the Dead came out in 3.35, so HW.

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Originally Posted by SassyAssassin

Aha why would people be self entitled for wanting their money to go in the game they actually play? I don’t give two craps about 16, and would want my money to go in the game I pay to play, not in a game Ill never care about. And SE is not low on money, they still sell a lot of other single player games.

You have zero rights to tell people to shut up, unless you follow your own example at least sometimes and spare us all.

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Because first of all, thats not whats even happening. If were to believe that FFXIV is suffering its quality due to FFXVI then its not because of resources but due to Yoshida not managing both projects very well.

And second, sorry but just like you dont particularly care for FFXVI, surprisignly a lot of people also dont much care for FFXIV so being this self-entitled that theyre wanting to develop other games because theres an audience for them that existed even before FFXIV existed is super cringe. Actually grow up and stop being so attached to one game.

Oi, are you guys seriously just gonna fall for the bait again? This is just another Titanman alt, I know it's been a couple of months now, but really? Masculine names? Confrontational titles? Somewhat contradictory, but inflammatory positions? Multiple topics made in a short time period?

Skiros, I understand what you're doing, but you don't have to waste your effort with this board, these people are more than willing to manufacture imaginary strawmen to fight all on their own at this point.

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Originally Posted by hunkygladiator

We paid for FF14 not FF16.

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Let’s address this illogical comment. Final fantasy 14 didn’t always exist. The money to develop this game came from somewhere. That somewhere would be other square enix titles.

So in turn the profits from this game, as with all other square games, whether it’s final fantasy, tomb raider, a marvel game, whatever, go into developing other games.

You’d think this reasoning would be obvious

FF 16 is stealing FF 14 resources because Square Enix just can't publish a successful game.

They probably need that big hit that just prints them money for a while... After such great hits as Babylon's Fall, Marvel's Avengers, Valkyrie Elysium, Star Ocean The Divine Force and Forspoken.

FF16 went in dev around 2016 in pre-production...in that time they have released 3 expansions and subsequent patch content....and are around year off of their next expansion which is a visual overhaul as well. Compared to say Business Unit 1 who make FF7 remake...they announced it went into production in 2015....its 2023 and we don't even have part 2. FF16 is a bigger game than part 1 and a longer game and were worried that 16 is taking limelight...I think it sucks to be a FF7 fan at the moment more so.

In seriousness...Endwalker has provided way more variety in content compared to Shadowbringers. The issue is just the rewards and replayability need to be addressed which can be tackled by 6.5. When their 3 variant/criterion dungeons are done they can design a longer term replayability for them. The only real difference is no relic zone but now a deep dungeon yes they don't go hand in hand in terms of comparison but that's all that's really altered.

Then we go onto resources, resources don't all go to endgame or the end section, they have clearly spent more towards trimming up Prae and Castrum, remaking and redesigning ARR dungeons and bosses, remaking two trials into solo duties, QoL galore in comparison to other expansions. Adventure plates, the largest update and rework for PvP the game has had in such a long time. Duty support being added to all prior to Shadowbringers expansions allowing more and more people to get through the story content on their own which yes is a double edged sword but at least they can progress more freely now.

Creative Business Unit 3 is a massive team, go to December 21st on the 16 twitter when they said the game is 6 months behind schedule because of delays or outright cancellations of outside contractors with their assets etc. On top of that moving Koji and Soken to 16 (Soken still does 14 though lol) is not even going to affect flow they literally barely impact the dev cycle. Yoshi P is a producer not a developer or director for 16 he is just in charge of marketing, contracts, making sure the schedule is maintained and handing day to day stuff with the project lead and director. He is just more present now because they are marketing ready for release.....he will be doing 3 fanfests in the next year for FF14 and a media tour....it's no different.

I could go on but this is a bait thread I am just tired of people not understanding there is a finite amount of resources....and they have been spent in other areas that sadly don't appeal to you...it doesn't mean they haven't been spent.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Let’s address this illogical comment. Final fantasy 14 didn’t always exist. The money to develop this game came from somewhere. That somewhere would be other square enix titles.

So in turn the profits from this game, as with all other square games, whether it’s final fantasy, tomb raider, a marvel game, whatever, go into developing other games.

You’d think this reasoning would be obvious

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Alright, I'm not gonna defend OP or anything. 'Cause.. It's a complicated subject.

But it's also weird to say "Yeah, well FFX paid for FFXI" - No, it allowed the funds to start the project and finish it by a corporation paying it's employees. But ultimately it still needs to pay for itself after sales are completed. FFXIV is also a product that has a sales goal to pay for itself. This also includes the fact that we have a cash shop.

The concern is how the excessive funds are shared and used. Engaging customers may feel entitled to more content given the current funds to the current product.

So if FFXVI pays for itself and takes the excess funds away from FFXIV, it may feel unfair to those customers. Or the idea that SE pockets it for just.. Bullshit corporate reasons.

But I think people also have a right to be suspicious and concerned about where the funds go. Mostly because strange SE decisions that we know have been pretty sour. Can't take the SE out of FFXIV unfortunately.

It's also not a matter of funding, it's a matter of dev availability. How can we 100% for certain trust that XIV hasn't been impacted in some form when they pulled devs.

Who knows, maybe FFXVI and FFXIV 7.0 will regain some of that trust.

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Originally Posted by R041

Alright, I'm not gonna defend OP or anything. 'Cause.. It's a complicated subject.

But it's also weird to say "Yeah, well FFX paid for FFXI" - No, it allowed the funds to start the project and finish it by a corporation paying it's employees. But ultimately it still needs to pay for itself after sales are completed. FFXIV is also a product that has a sales goal to pay for itself. This also includes the fact that we have a cash shop.

The concern is how the excessive funds are shared and used. Engaging customers may feel entitled to more content given the current funds to the current product.

So if FFXVI pays for itself and takes the excess funds away from FFXIV, it may feel unfair to those customers. Or the idea that SE pockets it for just.. Bullshit corporate reasons.

But I think people also have a right to be suspicious and concerned about where the funds go. Mostly because strange SE decisions that we know have been pretty sour. Can't take the SE out of FFXIV unfortunately.

It's also not a matter of funding, it's a matter of dev availability. How can we 100% for certain trust that XIV hasn't been impacted in some form when they pulled devs.

Who knows, maybe FFXVI and FFXIV 7.0 will regain some of that trust.

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Im going to be honest, at first the other day I thought you were just passionately trolling people or refusing to see sides but the last day or so your responses have changed my view on you and I apologize if I got arsey at any point with yourself. It is clear we both want better for the game and are passionate about it in our own ways.

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Originally Posted by Selsix

The problem with this incredibly lukewarm take is that companies are supposed to have multiple teams working on multiple projects. Not one team working on multiple projects. Moving some of the XIV staff to XVI is honestly insanity to me when XIV is a constantly updating game in need of a 24/7 dedicated team. Putting people like Yoshi, Soken, Koji, Natsuko, and God knows who else on XVI as well is baffling when it's clear XIV would and is suffering because of it.

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The thing is if you read my above post...content has changed in the slightest really since it was in production so long ago...Koji, Soken and Yoshi have barely an impact on 16/14 in the grand scheme of things if you take how many different teams/departments they are. WoW has a much much bigger team than what 14 has and barely makes as much content. I would say CBU3 is borderline family at this point haha.

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Originally Posted by CStrife912

Im going to be honest, at first the other day I thought you were just passionately trolling people or refusing to see sides but the last day or so your responses have changed my view on you and I apologize if I got arsey at any point with yourself. It is clear we both want better for the game and are passionate about it in our own ways.

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I appreciate it. I don't consider myself a troll by any means, but I do allow myself the flexibility to have braindead takes at times. lol

The content exists in EW, it's just not favorable content.

Pretty sure the money to make this game came from FFXI subs. It's never a good idea to have one person put in charge of 2 games. One of the games will start to suffer from their time being split between both. Makes me wonder how good 7.0 will be now.

A production delay isn't that big of deal if the content is good, imo. Therefore Yoshi P's involvement with XVI might not be that detrimental.

XI Players:
https://eltngl.com/sites/sites/defau...ld-2e-logo.png

But yeah, 16 does not even look that good. Just as XI was the most profitable game in the series, SE feels the need to empty the clip in the next big mainline series.
(Even at the expense of their past titles...SE needs a hit)

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Originally Posted by MonsutaMan

XI Players:
https://eltngl.com/sites/sites/defau...ld-2e-logo.png

But yeah, 16 does not even look that good. Just as XI was the most profitable game in the series, SE feels the need to empty the clip in the next big mainline series.
(Even at the expense of their past titles...SE needs a hit)

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lmao at it happening again XD

one thing that people seem to forget is that development started back at 2016. during 3.5 of Heavensward. If it were true that resources to FFXVI development is what caused the current patch cycle to be so "lackluster" then we should've seen this happen 7 years ago.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Let’s address this illogical comment. Final fantasy 14 didn’t always exist. The money to develop this game came from somewhere. That somewhere would be other square enix titles.

So in turn the profits from this game, as with all other square games, whether it’s final fantasy, tomb raider, a marvel game, whatever, go into developing other games.

You’d think this reasoning would be obvious

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my apologies, but I do not think you can apply "reason" and "obvious" to a majority of posts on the english forums. I am sure back in the day, the same people would have been carrying pitchforks around the burning barn shouting "we paid for X game not FFXIV"

it never changes, never will

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Originally Posted by MonsutaMan

XI Players:
https://eltngl.com/sites/sites/defau...ld-2e-logo.png

But yeah, 16 does not even look that good. Just as XI was the most profitable game in the series, SE feels the need to empty the clip in the next big mainline series.
(Even at the expense of their past titles...SE needs a hit)

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move on
let it go
etc etc etc
11 ain't even that good

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Originally Posted by hagare

move on
let it go
etc etc etc
11 ain't even that good

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Nostalgia is a giga copium tank

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

one thing that people seem to forget is that development started back at 2016. during 3.5 of Heavensward. If it were true that resources to FFXVI development is what caused the current patch cycle to be so "lackluster" then we should've seen this happen 7 years ago.

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Funny thing is, every expansion people have complained about the Quality of Content, Doom and Gloom, etc.
Just to turn around Next expansion and Suddenly say it was good.
Hard to take most people on the Forums Seriously.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Funny thing is, every expansion people have complained about the Quality of Content, Doom and Gloom, etc.
Just to turn around Next expansion and Suddenly say it was good.
Hard to take most people on the Forums Seriously.

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It's really annoying at this point. I understand people are frustrated with things not living up to their expectations, but being Doomers over the slightest thing will not win anybody over to their cause. Hell, it'll likely get people to start associating the person with their ridiculous Dooming and start considering them a troll or not worth taking seriously. It already happened with at least one poster recently (with one apologizing to them for believing that about them), and it won't be the last time.

We are not entitled to the finance and banking info at Square Enix, unless they choose to publicly disclose it. Stop acting like you know the games budget. You do not. Every year this rumor changes with a new game that is apparently stealing the budget. No it is not. That is not public information.

https://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/ir/library/ar.html

It actually is

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

We are not entitled to the finance and banking info at Square Enix, unless they choose to publicly disclose it. Stop acting like you know the games budget. You do not. Every year this rumor changes with a new game that is apparently stealing the budget. No it is not. That is not public information.

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It's not public information, but its very visible in the quality and quantity of content, if you dont see it, then maybe you should take off your rose tinted glasses

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

one thing that people seem to forget is that development started back at 2016. during 3.5 of Heavensward. If it were true that resources to FFXVI development is what caused the current patch cycle to be so "lackluster" then we should've seen this happen 7 years ago.

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What you seem to be forgetting is that FF15 came out after 10 years of work or so?

In the process of developing FF16 there's been a pandemic, and many other problems. FF16's concept work started back in 2015. This is only going to be year 8 of their work on it, and they're already trying to release it this June.

So yes, I can see why this could be hurting FF14. They're trying to rush a major title. I wonder, I wonder, where could they have gotten the resources to rush it from, especially considering the previous major title took 10 years of development?

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

It's not public information, but its very visible in the quality and quantity of content, if you dont see it, then maybe you should take off your rose tinted glasses

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SE financial report is public

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

What you seem to be forgetting is that FF15 came out after 10 years of work or so?

In the process of developing FF16 there's been a pandemic, and many other problems. FF16's concept work started back in 2015. This is only going to be year 8 of their work on it, and they're already trying to release it this June.

So yes, I can see why this could be hurting FF14. They're trying to rush a major title. I wonder, I wonder, where could they have gotten the resources to rush it from, especially considering the previous major title took 10 years of development?

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I think the point is that a lot of people look at FF16 and say "this is the cause of the current content issues in FF14", but with how close to release it is, and how long it's been developed for, it is far more likely that if it did have an impact, then it would have been around Stormblood/Shadowbringers era. Not current Endwalker.

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Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

I think the point is that a lot of people look at FF16 and say "this is the cause of the current content issues in FF14", but with how close to release it is, and how long it's been developed for, it is far more likely that if it did have an impact, then it would have been around Stormblood/Shadowbringers era. Not current Endwalker.

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Oh my lord a voice of understanding....you wouldn't have the issues arise now during a polishing/debugging period...this is where people will like come off the project back to FF14 XD Also for that individual FFXV took 10 years because Nomura handled dev for some long changing his mind and then S-E shifting him to do other projects...15 is just a bunch of mishandling in general. FF7 remake as well took 5 years to release part 1 but once again that was because 2 years in they basically scrapped and started over again because of the outside help of Cyber connect 2 wasn't hitting their quality standards. FF16 would of caused the most issue during SB and ShB like you said yet people think when its months away now is the problem....the team is also making another expansion which is roughly a year away from now too on top of other things...but by all means people blame FF16 for now...not the years ago it should of mattered.

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Originally Posted by MonsutaMan

XI Players:
https://eltngl.com/sites/sites/defau...ld-2e-logo.png

But yeah, 16 does not even look that good. Just as XI was the most profitable game in the series, SE feels the need to empty the clip in the next big mainline series.
(Even at the expense of their past titles...SE needs a hit)

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XI playerbase was declining...There's a reason they moved on from it and give it minimal support now.

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Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

I think the point is that a lot of people look at FF16 and say "this is the cause of the current content issues in FF14", but with how close to release it is, and how long it's been developed for, it is far more likely that if it did have an impact, then it would have been around Stormblood/Shadowbringers era. Not current Endwalker.

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Counterpoint. EW itself was in development years prior to release. A lot of people felt that EW was underwhelming compared to ShB, and EW was being developed during the peak development time of FF16, right?

Even the patches themselves could have been planned out to be this way far ahead of their release dates due to them trying to leave wiggle room for any issues with FF16.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Counterpoint. EW itself was in development years prior to release. A lot of people felt that EW was underwhelming compared to ShB, and EW was being developed during the peak development time of FF16, right?

Even the patches themselves could have been planned out to be this way far ahead of their release dates due to them trying to leave wiggle room for any issues with FF16.

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Check the FF16 twitter where they said in 2021 that covid basically delayed them 6 months due to them waiting on outside asset delivery from contractors...or those deliveries were canceled due to countries handling work and covid differently. If that was the case 16 would of been out by now, they had delays with 14 and covid hence 5.3 was pushed back. I think you are going in with the definitely happened mindset whereas I am not disagreeing something may have happened but there is way more facts that contradict that viewpoint.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Counterpoint. EW itself was in development years prior to release. A lot of people felt that EW was underwhelming compared to ShB, and EW was being developed during the peak development time of FF16, right?

Even the patches themselves could have been planned out to be this way far ahead of their release dates due to them trying to leave wiggle room for any issues with FF16.

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Counter counterpoint.

EW was being worked on after ShB was released, and the decision to make it 1 expansion instead of 2 fell on Yoshi-P who made the call because he felt it was time to wrap it up. If you recall, they even delayed the release to do their quality check because Yoshi-P himself micromanaged it to the point where they needed more time for the quality check. That doesn't sound like FFXVI development interfering with the development of FFXIV to me. The Pandaemonium raids have been well received, the Ultimates have been well received, the EXs have been well received, the new Alliance Raids have been well received...the only things you can point to having an issue (off the top of my head) is 6.0's story feeling rushed, Criterion's lack of real rewards, the 2nd Manderville relic quest being a repeat of the 1st step, and the 6.1+ story basically being a filler arc.