If PVP matchmaking is RNG, why are premade Parties still allowed in Fronlines?

Pre- Formed parties in FL drastically (negatively) affect gameplay for all other players who dont have luxury of PVP minded friends to join them in FL.Yes there are parties from FC's etc, but they would have same experience as if they would que alone.
And if the team is LUCKY when those premade PRO PVP players join their team they just steamroll everything taking away all the thrill, fun and sense and equal competition.
PVP is already hated by majority of FF14 players and completely onesided wipes and wins just fuels discontent even more.

I literally just came from an FL where we fought against a team of 7 DRKs and a bunch of warriors and DRGs who all constantly LB'd at the same time. At least one full premade in there for sure.
They just pulled both the other teams in non-stop and farmed us, ending up at 1600 and winning while both other teams were still around their 300s.
If we're not allowed to queue with a single friend in casual CC, I don't see why this should be allowed either indeed.

I don't think I'd be much happier being on their team either. When you can auto-win any battle you enter by spamming a zero-effort ability that even ignores CC immunity, where is the sense of accomplishment in winning?
Even pre-popping guard is useless thanks to the warriors LBing at the same time, and even if there were no warriors there were so many DRKs that they'd just have to slightly stagger their pulls to still win with zero counterplay involved.

in this thread:

people salty other people have friends

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Originally Posted by Nikoto

in this thread:

people salty other people have friends

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https://media1.giphy.com/media/IDGNYvFLkJKLK/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Nikoto

in this thread:

people salty other people have friends

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It has nothing to do with having friends, its all about balance. and now balance is heavily impacted sadly. but you already came here with toxic mindset so Im kinda wasting time on you.

Maybe if the entirety of the western playerbase pressed some buttons instead of being mentally afk and going "I'm here only for the exp XD" then premades wouldn't absolutely steamroll. lol

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Originally Posted by RNGSatan

It has nothing to do with having friends, its all about balance. and now balance is heavily impacted sadly. but you already came here with toxic mindset so Im kinda wasting time on you.

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I heard that last expansion from the people who wanted "easy wins". They deleted full party premades and made it light party. Plus they made everything forced freelancer. All if this was for "balance", to keep people from sitting in spawn for half of the game. From what I've seen with those changes "easy wins" went away and was instead replaced with "I'm just here for experience points." Granted that a light party can still do massive damage but not as much damage as before. To me, it was only a matter of time before premades would be brought up again since you still had a few people then who wanted to get rid of premades altogether and make it pure solo queue for frontlines.

Now then, you can take out premades just to end the DRK nightmare. However, I dont need to tell people to be careful with what they ask for. Just look up the many complaints in the general community forums. Anyways, if you take out premades you will get a fair game. However, you will also get a stale game, so stale that they'll hardly be another "balance" patch for frontlines because it's near perfectly balanced. No more having to make major changes because a group adapted and gave everyone another annoying thing to play around, granted that the changes was high needed this expansion thus far.

Coming from one who mainly does solo queue most of the changes made from Stormblood to now was made to accommodate the majority who refuse to adapt. Basically, it wasn't needed. It was just made to make game playing less annoying while the same strategies can freely be employed with little resistance. I'll let you think about it. I'm too tired to be doing any sort of defending for anyone. I don't feel like being told that I take frontlines too seriously anymore.

You want my thought on how to deal with DRK? Start by not letting their DOTs stack with each other. Besides the horiffic cc chaining it's too much work to try to survive all of that passive damage. Recuperate won't save you from this.

If you think 4 people out of 24 are too much of a factor to swing games (16.6% of your team), what do you think would happen in Crystalline Conflict if you have 2+ people playing together (40%+ of your team) ?

What about people who do callouts in Frontlines ? It seems to me like the team that has people giving instructions has an advantage. Maybe we should get rid of chat too.

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Originally Posted by GordonGeeko

If you think 4 people out of 24 are too much of a factor to swing games (16.6% of your team), what do you think would happen in Crystalline Conflict if you have 2+ people playing together (40%+ of your team) ?

What about people who do callouts in Frontlines ? It seems to me like the team that has people giving instructions has an advantage. Maybe we should get rid of chat too.

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you give to much credit to 95% of playerbase who come to play FL just from duty roulette. those 4 with voice comms doing PVP daily and planned combos easily wrecks non PVP players who just do FL for EXP.

Am still waiting for party-queue CC!

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Originally Posted by RNGSatan

you give to much credit to 95% of playerbase who come to play FL just from duty roulette. those 4 with voice comms doing PVP daily and planned combos easily wrecks non PVP players who just do FL for EXP.

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The better players who dedicate themselves to playing the specific gamemode are better than the people who queue for it casually and don't care if they win. I wonder who would win in that scenario? It's not going to be balanced if you disallow for pre-mades since it will not only make the game worse, but it will not even solve the problem since people will just find loopholes around it. This isn't an issue other games have, so I don't know why it's a big deal here.

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Originally Posted by IckeDerTyp

Am still waiting for party-queue CC!

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Same dude, big same....

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Originally Posted by Astralrisk

The better players who dedicate themselves to playing the specific gamemode are better than the people who queue for it casually and don't care if they win. I wonder who would win in that scenario? It's not going to be balanced if you disallow for pre-mades since it will not only make the game worse, but it will not even solve the problem since people will just find loopholes around it. This isn't an issue other games have, so I don't know why it's a big deal here.

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if those dedicated players would be spread out properly across 3 teams ant not stacked in one team only, thats the issue. Matchmaking is not build around K/D or experience, its RNG, creating dedicated players group defeats the purpose of RNG matchmaking.

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Originally Posted by RNGSatan

if those dedicated players would be spread out properly across 3 teams ant not stacked in one team only, thats the issue. Matchmaking is not build around K/D or experience, its RNG, creating dedicated players group defeats the purpose of RNG matchmaking.

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Barring the fact that it is still heavily RNG based since you still have the rest of the 5/6th of the team that still need to function in order for the team to win. But if you remove the ability for those people to be in a premade group, you also remove everyone else's ability to be in a pre-made with their friends who just want to queue up for fun. Yes, you make it the most "fair and balanced" in an RNG based matchmaking system but then you still make the game that much less fun for literally everyone. And even then you still wouldn't solve the issue since people would just abuse the matchmaking queues to just get into the same game/team.

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Originally Posted by IckeDerTyp

Am still waiting for party-queue CC!

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I am also waiting for it!

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Originally Posted by Astralrisk

Barring the fact that it is still heavily RNG based since you still have the rest of the 5/6th of the team that still need to function in order for the team to win. But if you remove the ability for those people to be in a premade group, you also remove everyone else's ability to be in a pre-made with their friends who just want to queue up for fun. Yes, you make it the most "fair and balanced" in an RNG based matchmaking system but then you still make the game that much less fun for literally everyone. And even then you still wouldn't solve the issue since people would just abuse the matchmaking queues to just get into the same game/team.

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well as it stands now with stacking only small group of stacks gets to have fun, rest just gets steamrolled for the fun of that VIP dedicated group.

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Originally Posted by RNGSatan

well as it stands now with stacking only small group of stacks gets to have fun, rest just gets steamrolled for the fun of that VIP dedicated group.

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EU Frontline has different eco system but 4 men premade never has significant impact on the outcome of a match on Aether and Primal.
One of the factor is Crystal is relatively new compares to Aether and Primal where we have better established PvP community.
Also, 4 men premade group do not have significant dominance in Secure, Shattered, and Seal Rock.
For above 3 modes it is quite easy to neutralize 4 men premade's impact
It is illogical to change system just for Crystal when Elemental, Gaia, Mana, Aether, and Primal do not have this issue.
Crystal need more time to develop its PvP community and you just need to be patient

"If PVP matchmaking is RNG, why are premade Parties still allowed in Fronlines?"

Because it doesn't have to be a black-or-white system. It doesn't have to be exclusively RNG-only or full-teams-only for a system to exist.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

EU Frontline has different eco system but 4 men premade never has significant impact on the outcome of a match on Aether and Primal.
One of the factor is Crystal is relatively new compares to Aether and Primal where we have better established PvP community.
Also, 4 men premade group do not have significant dominance in Secure, Shattered, and Seal Rock.
For above 3 modes it is quite easy to neutralize 4 men premade's impact
It is illogical to change system just for Crystal when Elemental, Gaia, Mana, Aether, and Primal do not have this issue.
Crystal need more time to develop its PvP community and you just need to be patient

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I play on Chaos and impact is instantly felt when dedicated PVP premade enters the match no difference on which the map.

Premades should die.

Oh give me a god damn break. They already took away 8-man parties when all they had to do was add forced freelancer and get rid of 24-man games. Now you want 4-man parties gone lmfao.

It's an MMO. People want to play with their friends, not the masses of dullards who didn't care to set their hotbar and are only queuing for EXP. You really act like there's a "thrill of equal competition". Buddy, there is no competition in FL or RW for the reason described above. Let people play with their friends.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Oh give me a god damn break. They already took away 8-man parties when all they had to do was add forced freelancer and get rid of 24-man games. Now you want 4-man parties gone lmfao.

It's an MMO. People want to play with their friends, not the masses of dullards who didn't care to set their hotbar and are only queuing for EXP. You really act like there's a "thrill of equal competition". Buddy, there is no competition in FL or RW for the reason described above. Let people play with their friends.

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I like FL and I play it not for EXP, but for the mode that it is. So mock all you want but yes I've got a thrill and loads of fun when all teams looks equal and there is competition and every point counts.

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Originally Posted by RNGSatan

I like FL and I play it not for EXP, but for the mode that it is. So mock all you want but yes I've got a thrill and loads of fun when all teams looks equal and there is competition and every point counts.

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You can out the premades, and matchmaking will not make the game 100% completely balanced. Take them out, and matchmaking is just pure RNG with no variables. Matchmaking doesn't measure win rates. Matchmaking doesn't measure who's just queuing up for experience points. Matchmaking doesn't register what classes are going to be used for frontlines nor how many on a team.

You can search for competiton. However, if some people don't even care about the game they will not stress themselves on it. Your value of competition and points will be overlooked by them.

You can search for balance with the current matchmaking system that we have, and you'll be sorely disappointed in the future. Because of how the system is there will always be some sort of team diff existing, even if it wasn't intended to.

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Originally Posted by Nikoto

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people salty other people have friends

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When the MMO is too MMO for players who want everyone else to be miserable and not play with friends.

For maximum anger SE should make separate solo and party queues. Heck, solo and premade queues for CC, too.
People queueing solo fighting other people queueing solo, premades fifting other premades.
Solo probably won't die, maybe. Premade queuers raging for not having enough people to play with.
The truth about how people really wanna play will be revealed!!

PvP in this game is uniquely horrible. But I like it anyway :)

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Originally Posted by Atreus

- not the masses of dullards...

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dullard is a funny word (๑꒪▿꒪)*
i need to use it more myself

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Originally Posted by LifeupOmega

When the MMO is too MMO for players who want everyone else to be miserable and not play with friends.

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whats miserable is going with those fake friend (for win trading) yes call it what it is -win trading for Frontlines. pathetic really. its FL, not ranked! but still there are people who creates PVP only oriented players groups so they would get guaranteed wins. and all your argument about "playing with friends" is saying it with a tongue in cheek. nobody is that naive.

P.S. maybe this issue is not as rampamt on US servers , so you have no clue what I am talking about, but on EU its rampant and very noticable.

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Originally Posted by LifeupOmega

When the MMO is too MMO for players who want everyone else to be miserable and not play with friends.

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Most the people here should just go and play SWTOR or some shit since it's basically a single player MMO like they all seem to want.

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Originally Posted by RNGSatan

you give to much credit to 95% of playerbase who come to play FL just from duty roulette. those 4 with voice comms doing PVP daily and planned combos easily wrecks non PVP players who just do FL for EXP.

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And what's wrong with this? Why shouldn't the people trying to be better, be better? Why shouldn't those who plan and work together win???

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Originally Posted by Nikoto

Most the people here should just go and play SWTOR or some shit since it's basically a single player MMO like they all seem to want.



And what's wrong with this? Why shouldn't the people trying to be better, be better? Why shouldn't those who plan and work together win???

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because it defeats purpose of RNG matchmaking. there is nothing RNG about premades. make it RNG or make it proper matchmaking based on K/D.

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Originally Posted by RNGSatan

because it defeats purpose of RNG matchmaking. there is nothing RNG about premades. make it RNG or make it proper matchmaking based on K/D.

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My man, 4 people are a small factor in a 24 man team, in a 72 man game. You're looking for excuses for why you lose all the time, but there isn't one - because no loss is wholly attributed to you, nor is it wholly the fault of 4 friends who are probably having fun on the other team.

I am also on Chaos and I can tell you that you're literally wrong. The issue is with Frontline teams has and always will be the players there just for duty finder EXP, and it will continue to be so long as they're the only reason the gamemode pops.

Go take a walk, stop trying to ruin the game for others.

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Originally Posted by Nikoto

My man, 4 people are a small factor in a 24 man team, in a 72 man game. You're looking for excuses for why you lose all the time, but there isn't one - because no loss is wholly attributed to you, nor is it wholly the fault of 4 friends who are probably having fun on the other team.

I am also on Chaos and I can tell you that you're literally wrong. The issue is with Frontline teams has and always will be the players there just for duty finder EXP, and it will continue to be so long as they're the only reason the gamemode pops.

Go take a walk, stop trying to ruin the game for others.

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please stop lying.

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Originally Posted by RNGSatan

please stop lying.

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Please, point out to me the lie. Was it the part where I said losing wasn't your fault? Because you certainly are seeming like the common zombie you find in FL.

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Originally Posted by Nikoto

Please, point out to me the lie. Was it the part where I said losing wasn't your fault? Because you certainly are seeming like the common zombie you find in FL.

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every single word was a lie. because of toxic liars like you game became shit.

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Originally Posted by RNGSatan

every single word was a lie. because of toxic liars like you game became shit.

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Explain how every single word was a lie, with evidence pointing to it.

Dude, stop complaining.
You may be right that premade focks up balance, but is that their fault?
Maybe SE could make a better balance system? O no ,of course not, these is all premades fault.
How dare they play with their friends!? Such a toxic bastards.

I have a harsh truth... even one motivated and experienced player can carry his team. Just look at FL legend Tony Hawkins@Spriggan.
Also if 95% players q up in FL just for exp... do we have to play worse to let you enjoy game? You are here for exp anyway so we are helping you finish game faster and go do other stuff ))

And last point:
I can give you some tip... it is very easy to find premade, all you have to do... just join to public pvp servers on your DC. People accept anyone in their parties.

There is a valid point from each side for sure.

Playing with friends is awesome. All content gets more fun when you do it with people you like, and seeing your coordination with others get good results is satisfying.

On the other hand, being on the team where there isn't a premade of friends is going to reduce your chances of winning astronomically.

4 people who are on voice comms and syncing their LBs can absolutely hard carry their team to victory. If you have a team of 1 DRK, 1 WAR, and 2 DRG who can quickly and efficiently communicate through voice, the DRK can pull people in, the WAR can deny them the chance to use Guard, and 2 DRGs having pre-popped their LB to make sure they land just as the DRK pulls are guaranteed to wipe the floor with the entire front of another team's guys.
Even just stacking DRKs and everyone pulling in quick succession is super effective, there's going to be an absolute avalanche of damage and unpurifiable CC that people just won't survive through.
It sucks to fight such teams, because they have a massive advantage in the form of a well-coordinated strike team.
And PvP is really unpopular in general, of all my friends on FF, only one person plus myself are interested in PvP at all, so I literally can't do the same thing unless I specifically start searching for people for the sole purpose of 4-person PvP queueing.

Disabling premades would be awful. I have a partner I play with, and we're enjoying it a lot. As disheartening as it is to see people who are obviously queueing as 4-man teams and sync-LBing, I'd be sadder to lose the ability to queue with my partner.
Heck, I'm salty I can't queue for CC with a friend, I was really looking forward to it before the news dropped that you're forced to solo queue for it, killed my interest for a long time.

There's no solution that I think would make a lot of people happy, things probably have to just stay the way they are.
But it's not 100% black and white here; facing 4-man premades really, really sucks. It's very noticeable, and you lose the majority of times you meet a setup like that. Just because removing this issue would cause even bigger issues, it doesn't mean it's not a bad thing that's worth acknowledging.

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Originally Posted by RNGSatan

whats miserable is going with those fake friend (for win trading) yes call it what it is -win trading for Frontlines. pathetic really. its FL, not ranked! but still there are people who creates PVP only oriented players groups so they would get guaranteed wins. and all your argument about "playing with friends" is saying it with a tongue in cheek. nobody is that naive.

P.S. maybe this issue is not as rampamt on US servers , so you have no clue what I am talking about, but on EU its rampant and very noticable.

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Exactly. It's FL, not ranked, people want to play with friends in an MMO. If you want to remove queueing in a team, you remove the ability for people to play with friends, in a game designed around playing with your friends. Plus, it's not their fault the average XIV player can barely comprehend a 1-2-3 combo and how to follow up on initiation. Given that there's no ranking in FL, you're going to get the first time players, the dipshit MCHs who can't even reach BH1, healbots who think they can heal a team, and the BH5 every game players all in the same game with no discrimination as to where they end up teamwise.

And to add to that final point, I play on both EU and NA, never had an issue with my own performance, get to be consistently top end damage and BH5 every game, and I don't care enough about cracking down on a minority of players who might be abusing parties, which is laughable given the 2/3 chance to be in the wrong team anyway.

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Originally Posted by RNGSatan

every single word was a lie. because of toxic liars like you game became shit.

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I used to do callouts / commands and i can tell you it was never premades that were toxic because you could tell how insync they were when it came to listening to the chat however the same cant be said of most solo quers who spam the chat with things like "shut up", "stop taking this seriously", or "idc about winning", and when they dont listen you get "bad callouts LMAO Lol" so removing 4 person que would make FL even more unbearable, and this is coming from someone who rarely played with fc mates in both 8 and 4 person que, my advice if youre soloing FL and want win is take command otherwise just snipe and have fun

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Originally Posted by RyanCousland

"shut up", "stop taking this seriously", or "idc about winning", and when they dont listen you get "bad callouts LMAO Lol"

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These are definitely the worst people to get on your team. The people who never try, and never care, or worse, either AFK or run straight into enemies and feed them.
I'd take getting spawn farmed to oblivion and end the game with 0 points over carrying 5 AFKers to victory tbh.

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Originally Posted by Kansene

These are definitely the worst people to get on your team. The people who never try, and never care, or worse, either AFK or run straight into enemies and feed them.
I'd take getting spawn farmed to oblivion and end the game with 0 points over carrying 5 AFKers to victory tbh.

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i would try regardless but since i play on console my macros arent equipped to argue with trolls on FL and theyre not even obnoxious ones mine are just simple "kill blue(immortal flames)" along with a Flag notification but there was a time i took a break because dealing with that is just not worth it

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Originally Posted by Kansene

These are definitely the worst people to get on your team. The people who never try, and never care, or worse, either AFK or run straight into enemies and feed them.
I'd take getting spawn farmed to oblivion and end the game with 0 points over carrying 5 AFKers to victory tbh.

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I agree with you completely, and while I understand it may be a nuisance, or feel frustrating please report them - otherwise nothing gets done.

Before someone says - but they're only a small PVP response team, I only get a generic reply - there is a dedicated topic in the support tickets expressly for this.

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Originally Posted by HaruGrimgar

Dude, stop complaining.
You may be right that premade focks up balance, but is that their fault?
Maybe SE could make a better balance system? O no ,of course not, these is all premades fault.
How dare they play with their friends!? Such a toxic bastards.

I have a harsh truth... even one motivated and experienced player can carry his team. Just look at FL legend Tony Hawkins@Spriggan.
Also if 95% players q up in FL just for exp... do we have to play worse to let you enjoy game? You are here for exp anyway so we are helping you finish game faster and go do other stuff ))

And last point:
I can give you some tip... it is very easy to find premade, all you have to do... just join to public pvp servers on your DC. People accept anyone in their parties.

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You know, this is a blatant example of why i found premades, i think the right word is ,, irritating. (but i know this is a me prob)
There are ppl, that are known for "being strong", like the one you mentioned (but i am not referring to him in this case). And i am so used to seeing them that i know also by experience who are their friends (cause they are 90% of the time in the same team, or are from the same guild)..
When they are together they are strong, very strong.
But SOMETIMES they are alone.
AND
THEY
SUCK
I dunno if they are not caring, if they are having a tea, watching netflix, or wathever... there was literally the number 1 from CHAOS sometimes in my alliance just SUCKING AS HELL..
And.. and i cant say nothing (even if they are LITERALLY griefing if we have to go by definition).. cause if i say something "offending" in chat, "I" will get reported lol