Here's a couple of changes that might be good for Paladin:
Cover- Target another party member to be covered (similar to Dance Partner). Every time you use Sheltron target member takes 5% less damage for 4 seconds.
Goring Blade- Make it 2mins and add this effect: Target hit by this attack suffers 2% more damage for 10secs.
Personally, I think if they want to make Paladin the "utility tank" SE should lean into it. With this change Paladin would be desirable in pretty much every type of content. However, Paladin should be on the bottom for personal DPS for Tanks (which they usually are anyway lol) if they were to have this kind of party buff.
Hollowed Ground- Make it a tiny puddle the size of the character hit box under the Paladin that makes them not take damage. Duration 10secs. If the Paladin moves off of it the puddle disappears and the effect ends. Change the recast timer to 5mins-5 1/2mins
A change like this would give Hallowed a significant disadvantage and put it more on par with the other invulns meaning a shorter recast timer makes sense.
Passage of Arms- This ability is too niche IMO. I'm not sure what to do about this one though. For me it just feels bad that to use this means I can't keep DPSing. In normal content it doesn't matter but, in hard content every GCD is important and if used at the 'wrong' point in your rotation it could me drifting FoF out of the burst window in part or entirely. Which could mean the group doesn't make the DPS check for the fight. I know you can flash this out for a server tic of Arms Up but, that doesn't seem like what SE wants for this ability.
What do you think of these thoughts? Good, Bad, indifferent?
A few ideas for Paladin
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02-20-2023, 08:09 AMSeaJay13A few ideas for Paladin
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02-20-2023, 08:30 AMMikey_R
Cover - What is the point? 4% is virtually nothing in the grand scheme of things and chances are, it will just be on your co tank, whoc you are using Intervention on anyway. If you put it on someone else, this implies a mechanic is going to hit them, using Holy Sheltron on yourself to give them 4% is a waste, might as well just Intervention them for even more.
Goring Blade - Apart from the fact making it used EVEN LESS than it already is, adding party damage utility to a tank, whether it is a single member or the whole raid, is just a bad idea. Most of the time, it will just make it mandatory. To re-iterate, no tank should have utility in the form of bolstering someone else in the party.
Hallowed Ground - Technically, your hitbox is a tiny dot at the centre of your target circle, however, even assuming you mean an area the size of the target circle, that is still to limiting and is effectively the same as rooting you in place. There is a reason they changed Holmgang to remove the inability to move after all.
You didn't say anything about changing Passage, so I will not comment.
Overall, in my opinion, these changes are not thought out at all. -
02-21-2023, 12:05 PMRithy255
With cover change, it would actually be pretty ok if PLD was OT, certainly slightly better then current cover... But I dislike the change anyway. cover just needs to be buffed and off the gauge. Imo.
Goring Blade, While It would be interesting to have a DPS buff on a tank, I really wouldn't enjoy one on PLD... besides the point that DPS buffs aren't even interesting anymore most you just press with burst and don't really need to think about it
Hallowed Ground, I'm actually thinking it should remain the longest Invul, but we should be looking to buff PLD in other areas It's fine to let the job have some weaknesses, I really want PLD to lean more into having strong useful utility and great defensives, for having a long invul (& lower DPS then DRK/GNB) Personally I feel like PLD deserves more support in general.
Passage of arms, It's kind of useful already, but I don't want it to be a cone you flash/hold personally I'd much rather have it work like white mage wings. -
02-21-2023, 12:10 PMElizasylen
I just want less buttons. no reason Goring, Attonement and Confettior need their own buttons.
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02-21-2023, 07:46 PMaodhan_ofinnegainHonestly with how janky bunshin into phantom kamaitachi is, I'm okay with keeping Confiteor and Goring separate and Atonement I rather not share with Royal Authority due to potential optimisations, granted not nearly as prevalent, since Atonement dropping isn't as common but no point cutting off that avenue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizasylen
I'll be honest, Paladin's hotbars set up properly ain't all that bloated, tbh I think DRK is overall the worst tank for button bloat as you tend to use a lot more actions in a shorter amount of time, while Paladin's rotation is more paced out, that it doesn't feel so bloated to me personally.
Making use of 3 hotbars with mmo mouse using shift and ctrl as modifiers, can comfortably play without any issues of bloat.
But if they need to cull abilities, shield bash and cover are the 2 least used actions on Paladin so, those can be cut, if there is any skill reduction to happen. -
02-21-2023, 09:46 PMRithy255I don't want to press royal authority/atonement 4 times. 3 with the new design is already way too much It wouldn't matter to me as much but you use atonement so often now that I rather they just slightly adjust that ability, Confiteor/Holy spirit should be on the same button (It makes sense anyway considering you don't want to press holy spirits during req now), make holy circle a cleave upgrade for spirit and move down holy spirit and divine might at lower levels while your at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizasylen
Goring blade could become a new second combo, give you a dot that gives you 30 seconds, that reapplies to the target up to 60 seconds... yeah yeah it's storms eye on paladin but at this point anything would be better then 1, 2, 3 (Holy spirit), 3atonements, only during down time. That or just remove it lol, imo it should become something that still breaks up how much atonement uses you get... OLD pld didn't use atonement nearly as much due to DOT applying. -
02-21-2023, 11:29 PMEsponJust because Dark Knight is worse, doesn't mean Paladin isn't bloated. With an MMO mouse, I comfortably bind about 26 abilities without having to move my hand, and I don't like using Ctrl as I find it awkward to press as it's just out of reach of my little finger.Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
Culling Shield Bash and Cover really won't free up any space for me since I don't even have them bound to a hotkey and just click them since they're used practically never.
People may complain about the jobs being too easy, but I find Summoner and Machinist to be in a good place in terms number of keybinds required. There are other ways to make jobs more complex than simply adding additional buttons to press. -
02-21-2023, 11:46 PMaodhan_ofinnegainDunno what to tell you, but sounds like a you problem. I'm guessing the majority don't share the issues you have so guess best to start with how you can alleviate your issues before resorting to "please SE fix this for me". Or play Warrior I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Espon
But seriously merging a GCD on top of an oGCD feels awful, playing ninja where opener requires you to use kamaitachi immediately after bunshin feels weird and janky af, because bunshin + Aeolian Edge is more potency than kamitachi, which mean you wanna Kamaitachi before TA, so it's a hard pass, and as Rithy said above, we press Atonement enough it warrants having it's own button, as well as for potential future optimisations. -
02-21-2023, 11:59 PMaodhan_ofinnegainThey removed the DoT from Goring and Blades of Valor because you lose too much potency in fights with downtime especially in ultimate, hence they go rid of it, since it's not viable in current fight design, so they won't be adding the DoT back, at least not anytime soon. The DoT application aspect also heavily delayed Paladin's ability to fit its "burst" under raid buffs, so while we have the 2 minute meta, so again, I do not see DoTs coming back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rithy255
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02-22-2023, 03:43 AMEsponOh yeah, how dare I have an opinion and feel the game has too many buttons to press, because YOU find it okay and YOUR opinion is all that matters in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
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02-22-2023, 06:50 AMaodhan_ofinnegainI mean when forums consists of the minority and I've not seen too many Paladin's complain apart from the same usual few names on here, but I've seen plenty of other Paladin's play just fine, it's not really MY opinion that is the only thing that matters in this whole entire world, personally I don't particularly care if it means anything tbh, but I still have the freedom to express it in the forums as long as it follows the rules stipulated within the forums rules. The fact that I can play it fine, without issue, doesn't factor too much into it, but usually I am super critical of people's complaint's based on my experience as to whether I have an issue with something, you know, like how everyone develops a critique of someone's complaints about a topic, but sure if you wanna spin it in a different light, go right ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Espon
Usually more often than not I see complaints on here to affect a small select few, but honestly the Goring and Confiteor change suggest are actually awful in practice, especially when we have an in game example that shows how bad and janky it is to implement.