Further Syncing Crystal Tower Raids - Potential Solution to Gear Cheese Problem

For those of you who don't know, Gear Cheese refers to people who strip off their gear to lower their ilvl, guaranteeing LoTA or Syrcus Tower when they queue for Alliance Raid Roulette. They do this bc the Crystal Tower raids take like half the time that any of the other Alliance Raid Series do, due to a very high ilvl sync (hence why we don't really see mechanics in the Crystal Tower raids) and these players "don't have time to do those other raids :'("

Unfortunately, this means 20 or so other people are subjected to filling in the spots for these raids in their own alliance roulette queues more often than other raids (on top of naturally getting CT more, since they are the lowest level raids. I don't mind filling for these raids when there's new people or people leveling, but I've stopped running this roulette in general bc I feel like I'm being held hostage whenever I see someone load in w/o gear and then put it back on.

Lowering the ilvl sync for these raids and making them take as long as the other raids would reduce the incentive for these people, and also would make these raids half-interesting again, so they wouldn't be SO boring when we get them!

I don't particularly mind that the Crystal Tower is faster or easier than later raids. I probably also wouldn't mind if there was a tighter IL sync on Labyrinth and Syrcus Tower. However, even with a tighter sync in place, it would still be possible to cheese the roulette simply by not unlocking any other raids. With that in mind, I would prefer it if the roulette requirements scaled with level such that you can only queue for the roulette if you've unlocked at least the first raid of each cap level your current job has met; with a minIL of the highest raid available to that job. Some discrete examples:

Ex. 1:
Your current job is Lv60 to Lv69. The roulette should require both Labyrinth of the Ancients and Void Ark unlocked and your minIL for queue should be 175, the minIL for Void Ark.

Ex. 2:
Your current job is Lv60 to Lv69 and you have unlocked the Weeping City of Mhach. Your minIL for queue should be 205, the minIL for Weeping City.

Ex. 3:
Your current job is Lv80 to Lv89. The roulette should require that you have unlocked Labyrinth of the Ancients, Void Ark, Rabanastre, and Copied Factory, with minIL 435.


People will complain about being locked out of their roulette every time they reach a new cap level, but honestly, so what. People already get locked out of DR:Expert whenever a new patch comes out until they finish the new dungeons and meet a higher IL. It's not a huge burden to require people to unlock a single raid once for each cap level to maintain access to DR:AllianceRaids for all current and future jobs.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

[...] I would prefer it if the roulette requirements scaled with level such that you can only queue for the roulette if you've unlocked at least the first raid of each cap level your current job has met; with a minIL of the highest raid available to that job. Some discrete examples:

Ex. 1:
Your current job is Lv60 to Lv69. The roulette should require both Labyrinth of the Ancients and Void Ark unlocked and your minIL for queue should be 175, the minIL for Void Ark.

Ex. 2:
Your current job is Lv60 to Lv69 and you have unlocked the Weeping City of Mhach. Your minIL for queue should be 205, the minIL for Weeping City.

Ex. 3:
Your current job is Lv80 to Lv89. The roulette should require that you have unlocked Labyrinth of the Ancients, Void Ark, Rabanastre, and Copied Factory, with minIL 435.


People will complain about being locked out of their roulette every time they reach a new cap level, but honestly, so what. People already get locked out of DR:Expert whenever a new patch comes out until they finish the new dungeons and meet a higher IL. It's not a huge burden to require people to unlock a single raid once for each cap level to maintain access to DR:AllianceRaids for all current and future jobs.

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Your mind is huge, honestly. Really, I'd prefer something like that, but I know realistically they won't/cant mess with queue-ing/lockout mechanics (tho perhaps the addition of limited leveling brings hope to the possibility). But I'd love to see something like this. And you're right, Expert re-locks every new patch dungeon so people can't really complain that much. It'd also increase the pool for raids in general if it's making everyone unlock at least the first one in each series and all I and my friends want is something other than "Crystal Tower Roulette."

There nothing wrong with how it is now I'm guessing most want a higher-level raid for more exp. and tomes. For me I queue for Crystal Tower raids just for poetics. The only raids you have to unluck for the main story is the crystal tower raids. Even if did change can't make ones run a raid they never unlocked. I cap my tomes each week just from doing beast tribes and MSQ roulette.

Crystal tower raid is run by 24 people but feels balanced for 8 .(the 3 party mechanics aside)

Because the Crystal Tower plays a big role in the MSQ later, so it should be part of the MSQ.
Beside the ilvl cheese (why ever you would do that, maybe people love CT so much? lol) You also need to run CT for Relic weapon quests.

So it really is no wonder that you get them so often.

The only real answer for CT is to move it to the MSQ roulette because even if they did solve the "gear cheese" you would still see CT almost every time you use the alliance raid roulette because CT is mandatory for the story now which means more people are actively queuing for that raid more often than the later raids which a lot of people running through the MSQ probably don't even try to unlock until after they reach 90.

People will cheese and cheat everything. They should make each 24 man raid a duty roulette. Tomes are worthless anyways. Maybe add a free piece of gear or something for each roulette.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

There nothing wrong with how it is now I'm guessing most want a higher-level raid for more exp. and tomes. For me I queue for Crystal Tower raids just for poetics. The only raids you have to unluck for the main story is the crystal tower raids. Even if did change can't make ones run a raid they never unlocked. I cap my tomes each week just from doing beast tribes and MSQ roulette.

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They can if they force you to unlock them. Which should be a requirement for this very reason: people intentionally don't on alts to force Crystal Tower.

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Originally Posted by colorfulcheshire

Lowering the ilvl sync for these raids and making them take as long as the other raids would reduce the incentive for these people, and also would make these raids half-interesting again, so they wouldn't be SO boring when we get them!

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It's wildly easier than that. Simply set the minimum itemlevel to queue for the roulettes to a level-scaling itemlevel equal to gear at the top of the prior expansion, and then interpolate between the level plataeus. Shadowbringers ended at 530, so that's the level 90 minimum. Stormblood ended at 400, so that's the level 80 minimum. 130 itemlevels of difference between them, so if you were level 85 (halfway between the two), the req would be 465 (halfway between 400 and 530).

This is the minimum itemlevel to queue for any matchmade roulette, unless that roulette defines a higher cap (like Expert or the raid roulette). So if you're level 90, you literally cannot even queue unless you're wearing at least 530 itemlevel. You could strip yourself out of the EW alliance raids, but not the ShB or earlier ones.

Obviously wouldn't apply to unrestricted parties or full groups, just like current itemlevel requirements. And you can't run it on a sub-max character without discarding the tomestone rewards (except Poetics), which I assume is why most of them are in there to begin with. So excepting poetics farming (which I feel like there are easier and faster methods of), it would put a hard stop to stripping down for alliance raids, and any other itemlevel manipulation shenannigans, for public matchmaking.

Also, as pointed at in prior posts, mandate at least the first wing of the alliance raids for the prior expansions (based on job level) be unlocked as an additional requirement.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

The only real answer for CT is to move it to the MSQ roulette because even if they did solve the "gear cheese" you would still see CT almost every time you use the alliance raid roulette because CT is mandatory for the story now which means more people are actively queuing for that raid more often than the later raids which a lot of people running through the MSQ probably don't even try to unlock until after they reach 90.

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100,000% this. This would be amazing and solve all of the problems.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

They can if they force you to unlock them. Which should be a requirement for this very reason: people intentionally don't on alts to force Crystal Tower.

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I'm horrified! I have to unlock all the raids on my alts for personal reasons (I love them so much).

The closest I come to seeing the raid start was a 2 2 and 6

The wait for the Weapon Dungeons is almost as bad seems to take a week

Need to drop the Crystal Tower raids or offer a group of Computer playersIt is very disappointing to not be able to advance the MSQ for 3 weeks

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Originally Posted by Desrae

The closest I come to seeing the raid start was a 2 2 and 6

The wait for the Weapon Dungeons is almost as bad seems to take a week

Need to drop the Crystal Tower raids or offer a group of Computer playersIt is very disappointing to not be able to advance the MSQ for 3 weeks

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That’s a Dynamis issue. Either use Party finder instead of Duty Finder or travel to Aether or Primal and then queue for the raid.

Thanks for the Info, Moved to a different world server and finished all three raids in less than 2 hours


Party Finder is not working on Dynamis either

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Originally Posted by Desrae

Thanks for the Info, Moved to a different world server and finished all three raids in less than 2 hours


Party Finder is not working on Dynamis either

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I generally have luck with Party Finder on Dynamis if I need an 8 man trial for MSQ progress and list "first time bonus" in the description.

For an Alliance raid like CT, it's always going to be better to head to any of the other NA data centers to get it done. Fortunately, CT is the only Alliance raid needed for MSQ.

I'm not so sure that'll solve it. On Aether right now, on a character/class with every Alliance Raid in the game available, on the role "in need," currently at 45mins and counting for the roulette, i.e. to help people like OP.

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Originally Posted by galbsadi

I'm not so sure that'll solve it. On Aether right now, on a character/class with every Alliance Raid in the game available, on the role "in need," currently at 45mins and counting for the roulette, i.e. to help people like OP.

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At what time do you play? I rarely wait more than 5 minutes at prime time (8pm -1am)on both Aether and Primal for the daily AR, 15 mins for one of my choosing and it's not always the role in need. If I try to queue for Orbonne at something like 4 am, then it is to be expected as pretty much everyone is sleeping.

EDIT: checked your old posts. You queue at 6pm est. That is not a good time. This is when people are preparing/having dinner or family time or are not yet back from work on the East coast. On the West coast, it is middle of the afternoon. A lot of players have families and work. 6 pm is way too early. Queue can pop but expect longer times. As for me 4-8 pm is the only time I am never ever online whether it is on a workday, weekend or holiday.

I personally don't mind it anymore. doing all roulette for Tomes and xp daily is long enough I rather have a quick crystal tower over other AR. Even void ark feel long, especially when people forget mechanic and wipe when the boss is low hp.

^how the hell do you wipe on void ark

Void ark was a joke on patch at current gear at the time

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

^how the hell do you wipe on void ark

Void ark was a joke on patch at current gear at the time

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I'm referring to the void ark AR series, not just the first part. Guess I should have said Sky pirates raid. Dun scaith is def the worst one of the bunch

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

I'm referring to the void ark AR series, not just the first part. Guess I should have said Sky pirates raid. Dun scaith is def the worst one of the bunch

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I’d just use shadow of mhach, that’s it’s official title

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Originally Posted by hynaku

There nothing wrong with how it is now I'm guessing most want a higher-level raid for more exp. and tomes. For me I queue for Crystal Tower raids just for poetics. The only raids you have to unluck for the main story is the crystal tower raids. Even if did change can't make ones run a raid they never unlocked. I cap my tomes each week just from doing beast tribes and MSQ roulette.

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I don't care about the tomes and I can take or leave the XP. I just hate that there seems to be about a 98% chance that my alliance roulette will give me one of the Crystal Tower raids, most likely Labyrinth of the Ancients, which I find to be the most annoying one. I didn't understand the hate for them when I was new, but I have come to detest them like many do simply because, at this point, I could do them in my sleep. I'm also not a fan of the increasing number of people who just park their toons in the boss arena and clearly go AFK (seen at least 5 of those just in the past 2 runs) The only entertaining runs are the ones where we get a bunch of newbies and everything goes terribly wrong.